<<Hmm...so you think Superman can beat Thor, but not Surfer?>>
yep, because thor and supes would be primarily a physical contest. supes doesn't use energy powers like the ss does and supes physicality is slightly better than thor's imo.
<<Good points. Blasting Thor might not be a good approach, but keep in mind that Surfer is an energy manipulator. I don't think he would be helpless once Thor started draining him. Unless, of course, there is evidence suggesting otherwise. Interdimensional warping is a power that both Surfer and Thor share. Many of Thor's abilities can be countered by Surfer, and vice versa. However, it does seem like Thor has the edge... >>
actually, when the stranger (who was once badly beaten by PLUTO and who is BELOW skyfather) trapped him in that sphere, ss was helpless, instantly. i see no reason why thor couldn't trap him a a similar dimension. like ss couldn't get out of the sphere, he wouldn't get out of the dimension. nor does it matter that ss is an energy manipulator -- mjollnir is the source and mjollnir is greater than the ss. seriously, i see no reason why he just doesn't drain him dry. kg hates it because he's got no logical reason it CAN'T happen -- other than thor hasn't done it to ss. presence was also a VERY powerful energy manipulator -- didn't do him any good. kg also hates it because it happened once in a comic so it IS a viable option -- like ss sticking supes in a surfboard is 'viable'.
incidentally, thor beat the crap out of quasar and he was HOLDING BACK! he shattered his constructs. not sure what fight you saw kg . . .
<<and most important SS beat thor in a what if? Easily>>
your most important point is non-canon? wtf?
as for ironman -- showing iron man draining him is actually a good thing, kg -- if ss couldn't even stop those cute little discs (even though he was looking elsewhere) from sucking him energy, how in HELL do you expect him to stop thor?? and what happened once ironman stole some of his energy? he ko'd ss's arse. thor can apparently absorb infinite amounts of power and is ALSO able to redirect it AND increase its power. ss doesn't hit thor unless thor wishes to be hit. ANY blast will be absorbed by thor and could potentially be used against him. it's happened before, it would happen again.
mjollnir > ss
mjollnir draining ss = ss screwed
lightning blasts will slow his silver ass down, followed by a god force or anti force blast, and it's over. couldn't care less what a non-canon book showed. a thor who is ready AIN'T getting 'speedblitzed' -- glads attacked while thor was still talking AND while thor viewed him as a friend. once thor said all kidding was over and declared glads an enemy, thor CRUSHED him -- and you didn't see glads speedblitz again.
your comparison to how they do against other characters is meaningless kg -- they are very different characters and fight in much different ways. thor fights hulk hand to hand -- the one time he used his lightning he ko'd hulk in 3 shots! hulk had ZERO chance in the fight. ss flies and blasts, thor stands and fights. totally different. thor has also done much better against thanos than ss who is demolished every time -- once punched out in what, 3 shots!? odin also dismissed ss with a single shot -- thor fought well against odin on a couple occasions and fought skyfather zeus for months! thor has also done much better against galactus -- even when ss was keeper, he got his ass beat down by a po'd galactus! oh, and since you appear so fond of NON-canon material -- glads and ss fought non-canon and were apparently so close neither could beat the other. as i said, once thor saw glads as an enemy, thor demolished him and glads ADMITTED thor was too powerful for him -- and not because thor 'saw' his weakness to radiation.
so don't compare fights, again, they are much different fighters.
so there -- you've used many examples, now i've used many. they've each done well against foes who've given the other trouble. the ultimate problem as i see it is ss is an energy wielder -- thor's hammer has ultimate control over energy. only way ss wins is with some mega blast -- thor can absorb it -- no matter how big, then KEEP absorbing ala presence because mjollnir > ss. or, if he stuns ss (with hammer or lightning) he finishes with godforce or stuns him MORE with antiforce and just pounds him into paste. ss's greatest power is thor's greatest defense, and his defense is ABOVE ss. if written to his full potential, thor wins.
i will however give credit where it is due, kg -- this is the best you've debated since we've been crossing swords. you DID raise some good points -- well done.
Originally posted by leonidas
actually, when the stranger (who was once badly beaten by PLUTO and who is BELOW skyfather) trapped him in that sphere, ss was helpless, instantly. i see no reason why thor couldn't trap him a a similar dimension. like ss couldn't get out of the sphere, he wouldn't get out of the dimension. nor does it matter that ss is an energy manipulator -- mjollnir is the source and mjollnir is greater than the ss. seriously, i see no reason why he just doesn't drain him dry. kg hates it because he's got no logical reason it CAN'T happen -- other than thor hasn't done it to ss. presence was also a VERY powerful energy manipulator -- didn't do him any good. kg also hates it because it happened once in a comic so it IS a viable option -- like ss sticking supes in a surfboard is 'viable'.
Trapping him? How is thor going to catch someone who moves faster than light? Thor needs SS board to go to different Dimension because he couldn't do it. How about SS leaves him there 😉
[QUOTE]incidentally, thor beat the crap out of quasar and he was HOLDING BACK! he shattered his constructs. not sure what fight you saw kg . . .
your most important point is non-canon? wtf?
as for ironman -- showing iron man draining him is actually a good thing, kg -- if ss couldn't even stop those cute little discs (even though he was looking elsewhere) from sucking him energy, how in HELL do you expect him to stop thor?? and what happened once ironman stole some of his energy? he ko'd ss's arse. thor can apparently absorb infinite amounts of power and is ALSO able to redirect it AND increase its power. ss doesn't hit thor unless thor wishes to be hit. ANY blast will be absorbed by thor and could potentially be used against him. it's happened before, it would happen again.
you are making a huge asumption here.
1) he can absorb SS energy because he did it to some guy? SS isn't just some guy. Has anyone jacked Surfer's energy and has beaten him? nope
Say this is true? how whould superman give him a battle? When Polaris , etc has easily effected his energy? hmmmmmmm.
using your logic Supes won't last one sec with Thor.
Well I can counter with similar stuff?
SS turns thor into solidified energy, or traps him in his board (which travels faster than light)
another assumption you making is Thor will absorb all his attack , or jack right from the source? have you seen Someone jack SS energy without making contact with SS? Thor hasn't done it , as for absorbing all of SS attacks again Thor hasn't done that either.
in fact he didn't to it do Quasar attacks with energy only
mjollnir > ss mjollnir draining ss = ss screwed
mjollnir > ss ----- yep true
mjollnir draining ss = ss screwed ----- Mjol won't be draining SS from the source? no energy drainer has done this to Surfer , and SS drains energy himself.
even Drained he was able to battle someone like Mellinius who kicked thor's ass.
i mean where are you getting this that THor will absorb SS's energy? have you ever seen someone just absorbing SS without touching energy contact?
You telling me mjol can absorb better than Q-bands? Who has contain EGo
again assumption ? Thor can absorb SS energy attack , not SS himself.
and absorb all attacks? kinda silly when you compare there speed.
lightning blasts will slow his silver ass down, followed by a god force or anti force blast, and it's over. couldn't care less what a non-canon book showed. a thor who is ready AIN'T getting 'speedblitzed' -- glads attacked while thor was still talking AND while thor viewed him as a friend. once thor said all kidding was over and declared glads an enemy, thor CRUSHED him -- and you didn't see glads speedblitz again.
Thor defeated Gladiator when he was helping with the airplane, and other time when he wasn't even looking.
Both battle Gladiator for a moment was so fast Thor couldn't react.
SS is at least Gladiator level speed, no actually much faster.
It took Gladiator 1 hour to go from 1 galaxy to another.
SS did it in seconds.
Thor is fast but not even faster than Superman.
your comparison to how they do against other characters is meaningless kg -- they are very different characters and fight in much different ways. thor fights hulk hand to hand -- the one time he used his lightning he ko'd hulk in 3 shots! hulk had ZERO chance in the fight. ss flies and blasts, thor stands and fights. totally different. thor has also done much better against thanos than ss who is demolished every time -- once punched out in what, 3 shots!? odin also dismissed ss with a single shot -- thor fought well against odin on a couple occasions and fought skyfather zeus for months! thor has also done much better against galactus -- even when ss was keeper, he got his ass beat down by a po'd galactus! oh, and since you appear so fond of NON-canon material -- glads and ss fought non-canon and were apparently so close neither could beat the other. as i said, once thor saw glads as an enemy, thor demolished him and glads ADMITTED thor was too powerful for him -- and not because thor 'saw' his weakness to radiation.
so there -- you've used many examples, now i've used many. they've each done well against foes who've given the other trouble. the ultimate problem as i see it is ss is an energy wielder -- thor's hammer has ultimate control over energy. only way ss wins is with some mega blast -- thor can absorb it -- no matter how big, then KEEP absorbing ala presence because mjollnir > ss. or, if he stuns ss (with hammer or lightning) he finishes with godforce or stuns him MORE with antiforce and just pounds him into paste. ss's greatest power is thor's greatest defense, and his defense is ABOVE ss. if written to his full potential, thor wins.
Still assumption that Thor can indeed jack SS energy right from him?
If that was the case he would have done it, to surfer , to hulk , to Quasar.
and i have never seen him absorb SS have you , or block all his attacks like you said.
But i did show you that a simple blast from SS is stonger enough to K.O thor.
i will however give credit where it is due, kg -- this is the best you've debated since we've been crossing swords. you DID raise some good points -- well done.
Looking at all there battles ( colabo) SS always is the guy who saves the day.
But most of the claims you made are assumptions, might work on low level energy wielder (the sucking energy part), but not surfer? Why well he has battled his share of energy absorbers in the past? Guess what he has defeated them.
I mean your saying SS won't be able even hit once? Common now. if anything SS is the one who shouldn't be hit.
Since he is so much faster than THOR.
As for Trapping
Stranger Trapping someone is similar to Thor's trapping SS?
Sranger is an abstract.
Thor has used SS to go to dimension because he couldn't.
SS has escape his share of Dimensional Traps.
if anything SS should be the one pulling such tactics.
Like going at 100X lighthspeed take him to the future, grab his hammer and dump him. Like what is did to Durok who was much faster than THOR.
thor could take them both to the dimension where the tetrarchs lived -- alpha flight beat galactus there because his powers didn't work. g couldn't port out. thor takes them there, ss is f'd.
and there are no assumptions -- thor has absorbed and drained an energy being who was VERY powerful -- beat on the rest of the avengers if i recall correctly.
i'm not changing your mind, apparently, you're not changing mine. thor's trump card is the hammer which is beyond anything ss has.
<<no my most important point is from a canon source where Thor says he nearly got killed.>>
what about the canon whwre he was amped and still had his power absorbed? again, thor didn't even fight back!! he thought ss a friend. once thor decides you're an enemy you are SCREWED.
<<But i did show you that a simple blast from SS is stonger enough to K.O thor.>>
and, if i wanted to get a scan i could show thor effortlessly absorbing the blast from an AMPED ss.
why COULDN'T thor do that all day? again, his greatest defense is against energy. ss's only weapon is energy.
thor wins.
Originally posted by leonidas
thor could take them both to the dimension where the tetrarchs lived -- alpha flight beat galactus there because his powers didn't work. g couldn't port out. thor takes them there, ss is f'd.
What's more logical a guy who travel faster than light in nano second takes thor to another dimention , or thor who has to spin his hammer? 🙄
[QUOTE]and there are no assumptions -- thor has absorbed and drained an energy being who was VERY powerful -- beat on the rest of the avengers if i recall correctly.
Not Hulk , not SS , not Quasar
i'm not changing your mind, apparently, you're not changing mine. thor's trump card is the hammer which is beyond anything ss has.
SS speed , and SS can do a lot more than Thor.
what about the canon whwre he was amped and still had his power absorbed? again, thor didn't even fight back!! he thought ss a friend. once thor decides you're an enemy you are SCREWED.
what does being freind have to do with Dying?
again SS can stop thor's hammer , and seperate it or k.O him with cosmic blast.
you making assumption leo
Thor absorbed energy attacks not surfer himself "BIG DIFFERENCE"
think like this
SS attack multiple energy beams. Thor isn't absorbing all. He didn't do that in What if , in a conon source got K.o'ed by simple attack
why COULDN'T thor do that all day? again, his greatest defense is against energy. ss's only weapon is energy.
Thor can't react faster than light SS can
<<blasts abosorbed. So what? did he absorb SS ?>.
doesn't mean in theory he couldn't. your only argument AGAINST this attack is that he hasn't -- doesn't mean he COULDN'T. you're making the assumption. a writer who had thor drain ss dry would be completely in the right given mjollnir is stronger and a precedent has been set. he's absorbed powerful energies in the past (including ss), redirected them, AND drained a very powerful energy user. there is no logical reason if ss blasted him thor COULDN'T continue to absorb him. he hasn't, but again, that doesn't mean he can't in this fight.
and you keep electing to use your source. a canon source ALSO show thor holding back against an AMPED ss, absorbing an AMPED ss blast, and shattering with his FISTS an AMPED ss shield. i could go on and on about other energies thor has absorbed and taken and redirected, but i won't. my point remains the same. sure thor has lost. if he is used to his potential, ss can't touch him and he can absorb and drain ss.
or he lightning bolts him, anti-force's him, then godblasts him or pummels an already stunned ss with his hammer.
you also argued it was bullshit, btw, that supes heat vision hit thor (and it was) because thor's hammer should easily have stopped it. it would and could as easily stop ss's blasts if he used it properly.
and when thor gets po'd and stops holding back or seeing you as a friend, he owns nearly anyone.
oh, just one more quick pic of thor dealing with another . . . 'reasonably' strong energy wielder . . .
and thor was GROGGY! and yes, she was ko'd. and (while she may not be jean gray) yes, this is the SAME phoenix that absolutely CRUSHED nova without ANY effort whatsoever. her attack was 'instantaneous' and thor was still partly stunned! he absorbed it and redirected it and that was the end of phoenix -- ONE SHOT.
there really are many other instances that show thor handling energy users VERY well, but i figured this was a pretty good one that shows what he is CAPABLE of if written to his potential.
<<also silver surfer fougth super man befor and beat him pritty badly>>
????eer
anyway, i couldn't resist one more (there are so many . . .). here thor absorbs the energy of the null bomb, a device created by the CELESTIALS to destroy a GALAXY!! and friggin' GALAXY!! he then casts the absorbed energy through TIME AND SPACE where it sparks a new sun. earlier in the same issue he created a 'impenetrable coccoon of power' that kept a horde of uberpowerful energy beings away from him. around the same time, thor actually absorbed a vampiric space being INTO his hammer, and the being was unable to resist the pull of the hammer. the same being effortlessly took command on multiple occasions of hercules.
again, tehre are many many reasons to believe ss only hits thor if he WANTS to be hit. if he doesn't want to create an impenetrable coccoon, he is MORE than capable of absorbing whatever level of energy ss throws his way and either continuing to drain him (presence) redirecting and amping the power (phoenix) or perhaps even breaking ss down and ABSORBING HIM! (vampiric space creature). all 3 of these opponents were VERY powerful (especially, obviously, phoenix). i see no reason why thor would lose to ss. if ss flies around at 100x lightspeed, he could stalemate. i don't see how if thor is written well, he could possibly beat thor. and he's not knocking his hammer away if thor is in bloodlust.
Originally posted by leonidas
<<blasts abosorbed. So what? did he absorb SS ?>.doesn't mean in theory he couldn't. your only argument AGAINST this attack is that he hasn't -- doesn't mean he COULDN'T. you're making the assumption. a writer who had thor drain ss dry would be completely in the right given mjollnir is stronger and a precedent has been set. he's absorbed powerful energies in the past (including ss), redirected them, AND drained a very powerful energy user. there is no logical reason if ss blasted him thor COULDN'T continue to absorb him. he hasn't, but again, that doesn't mean he can't in this fight.
and you keep electing to use your source. a canon source ALSO show thor holding back against an AMPED ss, absorbing an AMPED ss blast, and shattering with his FISTS an AMPED ss shield. i could go on and on about other energies thor has absorbed and taken and redirected, but i won't. my point remains the same. sure thor has lost. if he is used to his potential, ss can't touch him and he can absorb and drain ss.
or he lightning bolts him, anti-force's him, then godblasts him or pummels an already stunned ss with his hammer.
you also argued it was bullshit, btw, that supes heat vision hit thor (and it was) because thor's hammer should easily have stopped it. it would and could as easily stop ss's blasts if he used it properly.
and when thor gets po'd and stops holding back or seeing you as a friend, he owns nearly anyone.
then i don't see SS winning , but like i said Thor can't do it.
well i can make assumptions to
SS traps him , turns Thor into energy , SS turns thor into Gas etc , SS destorys Thor cells and bakes him
all those stuff SS has done.
all stuff SS has done
SS wins
Originally posted by leonidas
<<also silver surfer fougth super man befor and beat him pritty badly>>????eer
anyway, i couldn't resist one more (there are so many . . .). here thor absorbs the energy of the null bomb, a device created by the CELESTIALS to destroy a GALAXY!! and friggin' GALAXY!! he then casts the absorbed energy through TIME AND SPACE where it sparks a new sun. earlier in the same issue he created a 'impenetrable coccoon of power' that kept a horde of uberpowerful energy beings away from him. around the same time, thor actually absorbed a vampiric space being INTO his hammer, and the being was unable to resist the pull of the hammer. the same being effortlessly took command on multiple occasions of hercules.
again, tehre are many many reasons to believe ss only hits thor if he WANTS to be hit. if he doesn't want to create an impenetrable coccoon, he is MORE than capable of absorbing whatever level of energy ss throws his way and either continuing to drain him (presence) redirecting and amping the power (phoenix) or perhaps even breaking ss down and ABSORBING HIM! (vampiric space creature). all 3 of these opponents were VERY powerful (especially, obviously, phoenix). i see no reason why thor would lose to ss. if ss flies around at 100x lightspeed, he could stalemate. i don't see how if thor is written well, he could possibly beat thor. and he's not knocking his hammer away if thor is in bloodlust.
Re: Thor vs. Silver Surfer
Originally posted by Betageuze
after short abstinence...... Betageuze... is back on the scene 🙂with this MEGA-match
2 of the most powerful forces in Marvel ever.....
who wins ? .... the have to go toe to toe ...
all powers are allowed...
😎 You're abstinent? You must have a lot of willpower...........I wish I did.........I'm such a bad person 🙁