Moral issues on the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki

Started by fini6 pages

all i can say is that the bombings of these two cities forever changed the face of war. It was horrible that alllllllllll those people died and soooooo many more have to pay for things they were no way connected too.

To me its like getting even was out of the question. It shouldn't have been done, but its alllllll in the past now and we cant do anything about it.

The only thing that we can do is to make sure that another war of that magnitude doesn't happen again, cause every human on this planet will lose their life in the ensuing battle. ANd that is definite.

but then again there are "bullies" out there that wont listen to the rest of the world and do whatever they want too

can you imagine if we didn't use them then? Korean war would have beeen a nuclear conflict because no one would have been able to tell how much destruction the atom bomb could cause.

oh, they knew what those bombs did.

But the world didn't.

SOOOOOO they decided to show that they knew what destruction they held in their hands by killing soooo many people!?!?!?

Sometimes it takes horrible actions to teach the world the power of something.... ur generals thought the bomb orinally was going to just make the enemy close there eyes while we just waltzed in... no one knew what it was going to do other then the scientists... mind you no one other then a select few knew its power.

ur generals!?!?!?!?, what are u talking about!?!?!?

"our"

its in the past, and we cant change that so let it rest

Gah, this thread is now also getting lost in generic WWII history... it is really not relevant to get into the political reasons behind the start of the Pacific Theatre of WWII! Not to mention that you spectacularly misread what Omega meant, Winddancer.

"I am become death, the destroyer of worlds," said Oppenheimer with all due gloom when the project was done. Nearly all of them were uneasy about what they were working on. But to blame the scientists is unfair for several reasons:

1. They were making a big bomb. Any weapon is unpleasant in origin but it was a war! People were making weapons all over the darn place. They were just making a bigger one. Remembering that they had no idea about the radioactive fall out, they just throught they were making the largest yield bomb yet seen. If you are going to pillory them for that, would you also pillory the scientists that developed the incendiary mechanisms used on Germany, which killed FAR more people and were at least as horrible as the atomic weapons used on Japan? Like I say, it was a war, and it sadly becomes the purpose- even duty- of scientists serving their country in war to create better ways to kill people, as that is what war is all about. Yes, wouldn't it have been nice if we hadn't had to have had that war... but we did, so there you go. You cannot limit that war with rules once it starts. Scientists design weapons, engineers build them, soliders use them. It is unfair to hold them accountable for doing their duty by arms. So there is no question of their motivations- developing a new weapon in defence of the free world. If it not right to hold them more accountable for developing a bomb for that use than it is to hold people accountable for using tanks, guns and knives.

So as I say. Big bomb. What reason would they have had to say "actually, I am not going to make this...". The logical extent of that argument is to say that no-one should have designed any weapons for the US ever. In which case, they would have lost.

2. At the point the project was commenced, it looked rather essential- Germany was working on the same project. In short, the bomb was going to be discovered sooner or later. Frankly, better by the US than by many of the unpleasant forces in the world that may otherwise have gotten it. As it turned out, Germany lost out by conventional means first, but the risk assessment from Germany was fair.

3. They did not know the implications of what would result from nuclear weaponry. I am sure if they had seen the Cold War coming they would have hesitated.

But as I say, ALL they were doing was making a big bomb in order to aid their country, which was hardly ascribable as an evil act in the middle of a global war for survival. Wars need weapons. People who fell behind in the tech race would lose. The scientists provided and did their duty as much as any soldier did.

No, we cannot blame scientists for developing the bomb- they were people simply responding to the needs of the time. The moral debate, surely, has to be about the decision to use it. That is the only interesting part. That is where thje controlled part of it was. The bomb was going to be designed, and built, and would be dropped by airmen oif so ordered. But did that order have to be given? Once the bomb was there, can any justification be made for its use if it was not necessary? And was it necessary? These are the two relevant questions.

And as I say, the answer to the second is that we will never know.

Winddancer> I know history, yes. I asked you if you were aware of the reasons behind the Japanese attack on pearl Harbour? In your previous post you ended with asking if "we" should blame the Japanese for bombing PH. SHould we go further and blame the US for maing an embargo on Japan?

For the third time: Do you blame gun-manufacturers for gun-related crimes?

Raven Guardia> "They" had it coming?!?!?!?? Almost 300.000 Japanese men, women and children (almost all of them civilians) HAD it coming?

Fini> Exactly. It's easy to sit today and look back, and either support or condemn the act of dropping the bombs. I believe it was done to show off to the U.S.S.R. Back in those days that could've been a completely justifiable act by people of those days. It IS almost 60 years ago...

Raventheonly> The Manhattan Projects test had already shown the devastating power of the a-bomb. "They" knew all-right. Truman was right there when the bomb went off in Arizona.
And had "they" wanted to test it, they could've found some remote island, invited representatives from the warring nations, blown the island to kingdom come, and said "See. Surrender, or else..."

"Sometimes it takes horrible actions to teach the world the power of something." Does it. Are you saying it was necessary?

Thats so bloody rediculous! How did have to happen, and who had it coming, civilians?

This bomb didnt only kill those people caught in the blast, but children are still born deformed because of radiation. Shamefull.

How can ANYONE justify dropping nuclear weapon on any country!

Whether you interpret the dropping of two atomic bombs in built up civilian areas as "the best way to stop the war in the pacific" or as a way of pre-warning the Russians (not the Japanese) what America was capable of is, and probably always will be, a matter for the individual. Nothing can be proved.

What is now, finally a matter of record is that immediately following the end of the conflict in the 40's the American government suppressed reports of radiation injuries, prevented release of ground-level damage reports, discouraged discussion of alternatives to the bombing, played up the "military necessity" of the decision and discouraged any reporting of the politics that went hand-in-hand: and placed all of the scientists and their papers under a shroud of "Top Secrecy" to prevent non-military viewpoints from being discussed or published.

If you don't take the post-war spin of the facts into account you are far more likely to accept the spoon-fed official viewpoint.

For the record - I'm biased - I see the way the USA justify the dropping of the two bombs as just another clear cut example of the fact that this most vile and corrupt of nations can do anything they please and still convince their populace that it is somehow morally justifiable and that they are still the "good guys". Tho I have to admire the awesome conceit and remarkable vanity.

If you are interested in this topic you could do worse than to read Gar Alperovitz: a little biased* but his collation of the research into the post bomb climate is well laid out.

* hey kids - always remember to doubt the left and the right in equal measure. Politics is a dirty game!

😑 Why does the context of that post sound very familiar? Im sure I saw that somewhere online.....

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Thats so bloody rediculous! How did have to happen, and who had it coming, civilians?

This bomb didnt only kill those people caught in the blast, but children are still born deformed because of radiation. Shamefull.

How can ANYONE justify dropping nuclear weapon on any country!

Like I say, they didn't know about the radiation effects, so in that frame of reference, dropping the bomb was no different to levelling the cities by conventional methods, which the allies were already doing.

The threat was in how easily they could annhilate cities via this method; the horror of radiation was quite a shock to everyone.

I am not saying this to justify it, just to remind people that the long-term radiation problems were only discovered in practice. Remember they killed quite a few of their own people at test sites by giving them lethal radiation doses that they didn't know would occur.

However, whilst this goes against the grain of many who post here, people must not be afraid to consider the reasoning behind the point that Raven makes, It is possible that only the horror caused by the use of these weapons on civilian targets, prevented their further, and more devastating, use. History works in an ugly way like that sometimes; we can't ignore it just because it's not very nice. That doesn't morally justify its use but it may still have to be accepted as fact.

Mr Zero> I cannot help but wonder if the Alperovitz comment was directed at this signature, seeing as I refered to him. Is anyone NOT biased I feel like asking? Is being critical the same as being biased?
However, i find your "the USA justify the dropping of two bombs" as accusing an entire nation, men, women, and children, of something they didn't all participate in doing. Language is important, and I'd feel more comfortable if you'd said, say, the Truman-administraion.

Ush> How an you say that "they" didn't know about the radiation effects? Radioactivity had been known since the late 19th Century, and it's adverse effects were known at the time. DO you mean, "they" didn't know exactly how devastating the radiation would be?

Absolutely, Omega. Obviously the existence of radiation was known, but no-one had actually forseen the long term radiation effects of the use of atomic weaponry.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
context of that post

If the list of dubious cover-ups is familiar to you it might be because it's paraphrased badly from a rant review for one of Gars books. I'd have copied his cover blurb verbatim - but I don't have it at work.

The CONTEXT of the post - the bitter USA baiting hyperbole - I happily take full credit for.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by The Omega
[B]Mr Zero> Language is important, and I'd feel more comfortable if you'd said, say, the Truman-administration.

%100 right and I stand corrected.