Who is the most powerful Anime character ever?

Originally posted by Astner
Well, seemingly people didn't understand it the first time.

Or simply realized you were wrong.

Wrong. While it's true that it was stated that each of dimension in the hyper-dimension surpassed the previous one, nothing was mentioned regarding what beings could and couldn't conceive nor the extent to which they surpassed eachother.

Yes it was. That was the point of the Chousein trying to find a being higher than themselves, because they couldn't conceive of Kami Tenchi naturally.

I think you refer to the event where Tenchi (without Light Hawk Wings) was [b]torn between two dimensions--but then again, that's unrelated.

No, not even close.

What novel? And how does it differ from this

The third Shin Tenchi novel, written by Masaki Kajishima, which is canon. It specifically states that each one is a real, full - size universe.

In which shit didn't happen, at all.

They have no feat putting them above the likes of Kubik. [/B]

It's not about feats, it's about the fact that they take place in yet more universes in the same multiverse.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Or simply realized you were wrong.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Yes it was. That was the point of the Chousein trying to find a being higher than themselves, because they couldn't conceive of Kami Tenchi naturally.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
The third Shin Tenchi novel, written by Masaki Kajishima, which is canon. It specifically states that each one is a real, full - size universe.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
It's not about feats, it's about the fact that they take place in yet more universes in the same multiverse.

Besides, it's not like we know how much struggle was put into the creation of the hyper-dimensions, which in fact is 11 dimensions (universes) as stated.

But the question remains, what have they done that has put them over Cube Beings? The answer is simple--nothing.

Originally posted by Astner
You tend to do that a lot don't you? "Realizing" rather than rationalizing.

It's pretty easy since most of your arguments are so transparent.

Completely unrelated. Besides, it's based on your assumption.

How is it unrelated? Kami Tenchi came from the dimension above him so they couldn't conceive of him naturally and can't understand his existence.

Do you have any proof of this?

http://homepage2.nifty.com/tatsumingo/world/episode3/kanemitsu.html

(excuse the crappy translation)

And once again, how does it differ from the lesser New Gods creating universes?

Because no elaboration was given on that? We don't know what it means in context. Anyway it disproves your claim of only 11 universes.

Whether it's 11, 12 or 13 doesn't matter. Because given time, Franklin Richards could create the same amount of universes. It's not like the amount is infinite like you imply.

I'm saying the amount is unknown, and at least 8 of them are more complex and expansive than our universe.

Besides, it's not like we know how much struggle was put into the creation of the hyper-dimensions, which in fact is 11 dimensions (universes) as stated.

Tokimi seemed to indicate that repairing them after Kami Tenchi's release was a trivial matter in OVA 20.

But the question remains, what have they done that has put them over Cube Beings? The answer is simple--nothing.

Except, you know, creating a multiverse. 🙄

Originally posted by Astner
Wrong. They made 11 universes, in total.

They made 11 dimensions, but they were described as having made countless universes.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
It's pretty easy since most of your arguments are so transparent.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
How is it unrelated? Kami Tenchi came from the dimension above him so they couldn't conceive of him naturally and can't understand his existence.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
http://homepage2.nifty.com/tatsumingo/world/episode3/kanemitsu.html

(excuse the crappy translation)

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Because no elaboration was given on that? We don't know what it means in context.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Anyway it disproves your claim of only 11 universes.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
I'm saying the amount is unknown, and at least 8 of them are more complex and expansive than our universe.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Tokimi seemed to indicate that repairing them after Kami Tenchi's release was a trivial matter in OVA 20.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Except, you know, creating a multiverse. 🙄

Again, don't act as if it in any way is infinite, because it isn't. 11 dimensions reside within the hyper-dimensions which is their original creation.

Cube Beings on the other hand.

"Exceeding into infinite dimensions..."

Originally posted by Q99
They made 11 dimensions, but they were described as having made countless universes.

Last OAV, when explaining about the big experiment, iirc.

Originally posted by Q99
Last OAV, when explaining about the big experiment, iirc.

Here are the episodes on youtube. Tell me if you can find it.

Ooh, I see where I thought I had seen it. Around 7:15 in 19 they refer to the chousin as "infinitely extending beings," and later in part 3 of the ep they talked about them existing for "beyond infinity infinities of time" and running infinite experiments, I had made the leap that they were making infinite universes as experiments, though they said they didn't need to physically do it.

There doesn't seem to be anything that refers to the number of universes directly, when referring to dimensions they do seem to be talking in the "this one universe has three, length width and height, we have more including those three, etc." characteristics of universe sense. Both Tenchi's and Z's universe were 3rd dimensional, for example, as was Duel (another of the same multi-verse) and the one from the new series by the creators. So we know it's not just one universe per numbered dimension at the least.

We may just have insufficient information on the number of universes they've actually made.

Originally posted by Q99
Ooh, I see where I thought I had seen it. Around 7:15 in 19 they refer to the chousin as "infinitely extending beings," and later in part 3 of the ep they talked about them existing for "beyond infinity infinities of time" and running infinite experiments, I had made the leap that they were making infinite universes as experiments, though they said they didn't need to physically do it.

Originally posted by Q99
There doesn't seem to be anything that refers to the number of universes directly, when referring to dimensions they do seem to be talking in the "this one universe has three, length width and height, we have more including those three, etc." characteristics of universe sense.

And there is no point in speculating, since we can't prove any of it.

Originally posted by Q99
Both Tenchi's and Z's universe were 3rd dimensional, for example, as was Duel (another of the same multi-verse) and the one from the new series by the creators. So we know it's not just one universe per numbered dimension at the least.

First off, we don't know whether it's in another universe, or simply another galaxy which is similar.
Secondly, just because it's created by the same authors doesn't mean it's canonically connected to the other series. Marvel publishes the Transformers comics, but Transformers aren't a part of the Marvel universe. Or more generally, "What-if..." stories are published by Marvel (the same editors and writers) yet aren't canon.

Originally posted by Q99
We may just have insufficient information on the number of universes they've actually made.

So you're taking a statement from Rom the Spaceknight (or whoever that is) with no proof? How do you know that's not hyperbole? Z said the Chousein can do anything, I guess that's true too then. 🙄

Also that was mortal Washu who just had those universes as a science project. Implying they are pretty common.

Also travel between two universes is a major plot point in Dual!. In fact that's the meaning of the title - Dual universes. It was stated by Kajishima in an interview that Dual takes place in the same continuity as Tenchi Muyo!

The 11 dimensions of the hyperdimension are what you could call the "core" universes. Just like 616 is the key universe and the lynchpin of Marvel, the 11 dimensions are that for the Tenchiverse. It doesn't mean there aren't others.

But can you PROVE there are others? estahuh

I already did.

Nah.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
So you're taking a statement from Rom the Spaceknight (or whoever that is) with no proof? How do you know that's not hyperbole?

I think you've misunderstood the application of refuting panel evidence as hyperbole severely. It's not a free card to avoid debating. If you actually think it's hyperbole then you'd have to provide us with your basis for that reasoning.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Z said the Chousein can do anything, I guess that's true too then. 🙄

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Also that was mortal Washu who just had those universes as a science project. Implying they are pretty common.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Also travel between two universes is a major plot point in Dual!. In fact that's the meaning of the title - Dual universes. It was stated by Kajishima in an interview that Dual takes place in the same continuity as Tenchi Muyo!

Originally posted by Endless Mike
The 11 dimensions of the hyperdimension are what you could call the "core" universes. Just like 616 is the key universe and the lynchpin of Marvel, the 11 dimensions are that for the Tenchiverse. It doesn't mean there aren't others.

But the low estimation would put the total in 15 universes.

Originally posted by Astner
This is wrong. Firstly according to Einstein's general theory of relativity (or Quantumfield theory, as it's the current standard model) space-time is one and the same, our universe is (at least) four dimensional. So the main third dimension, can't be only consist of three dimensions.

And there is no point in speculating, since we can't prove any of it.

Three space, one time. So perhaps they simply refer to the number of spacial dimensions it has and leave time unmentioned- they do refer to it as a third dimensional universe.

We *do* know that the higher dimensions are something that Tenchi cannot yet withstand perceiving, as is specifically mentioned in the episode.

Secondly, just because it's created by the same authors doesn't mean it's canonically connected to the other series. Marvel publishes the Transformers comics, but Transformers aren't a part of the Marvel universe. Or more generally, "What-if..." stories are published by Marvel (the same editors and writers) yet aren't canon.

The Tenchi GXP novels have some of the Duel characters mentioned in it.

The latest anime from the creators, Saint Knight's Tale, has a Masaki relative summoned from the main universe to another universe.

So it's confirm on-screen as well as behind the scenes chatter. Not everything by the creators is related (El Hazard likely isn't, for example), but we have multiple universes confirmed.

Originally posted by Q99
Three space, one time. So perhaps they simply refer to the number of spacial dimensions it has and leave time unmentioned- they do refer to it as a third dimensional universe.

Originally posted by Q99
We *do* know that the higher dimensions are something that Tenchi cannot yet withstand perceiving, as is specifically mentioned in the episode.

Once again, speculation holds no water.

Originally posted by Q99
The Tenchi GXP novels have some of the Duel characters mentioned in it.

The latest anime from the creators, Saint Knight's Tale, has a Masaki relative summoned from the main universe to another universe.

So it's confirm on-screen as well as behind the scenes chatter. Not everything by the creators is related (El Hazard likely isn't, for example), but we have multiple universes confirmed.

Originally posted by Astner
[B]Because we saw the New Gods shaping bright spheres of light. What was given was nothing short of exposition.

I wasn't talking about the New Gods. Besides, pocket universes can be that small (the size of a baseball or something).

I think you've misunderstood the application of refuting panel evidence as hyperbole severely. It's not a free card to avoid debating. If you actually think it's hyperbole then you'd have to provide us with your basis for that reasoning.

Okay, fine then: Cube Beings have never shown the ability of multiversal creation/destruction. Closest I can remember is Molecule Man vs. Beyonder (Post - Retcon) where they cause effects across the multiverse, but they weren't actually creating and destroying universes.

Except it's not the same situation as you seemingly tend to imply. Because there's proof in the very same episode contradicting that statement.

Same thing for your scan of Rom. Obviously he's not the only being in the cosmos that could stop them. And we've already seen fights between beings of that level in Marvel that didn't do the kind of damage he's implying.

How does it imply that they're common? No exposition other than that she--through unknown means--had created universes.

And she was a mortal being at that time, given scientific equipment (she was only an applicant to the science academy either, not accepted yet).

As in Tenchi Muyo! Ryo-Ohki? I'd like to see that interview.

I can't find it currently but it is referenced in several articles on Tenchi and GXP.

Even if that it's true, nothing suggests that there's an infinite amount of universes spanning forth from those 11 universes.

I never said there were.

Even granting you all the possible arguments you hold, you'll end up with 2 extra universes from Duel and the universes that Washu stored in the bottle--since the amount, while unspecified but denoted in plural we can only make a low-estimation of that 2 universes was stored, not that an extra dozen would matter.

It would because they can be created so easily and casually. In GXP a scientist said that Fuku has as much energy as "a small universe", imply familiarity with the existence of such things. Apparently scientists in Tenchiverse can create universes for shits and giggles. This is without using cosmic powers.

Also you're ignoring how each universe in the hyperdimension is much more complex and expansive than the last.

Which is ridiculous within itself, since our mind would remain unaffected by additional spatial dimensions.

Only because we are unable to perceive them. If I am correct, current physics suggests that there are several extra spacial dimensions but they are on the subatomic level and far too small for us to detect.

I'm still anxiously awaiting evidence for that any of the other series are canonically related to Ryo-Ohki, and not another "What-if..." story.

Funny since the "What If" stories in Marvel are actually alternate universes in the same multiverse.

InSM directly references events and characters in TM!

Originally posted by Endless Mike
I wasn't talking about the New Gods. Besides, pocket universes can be that small (the size of a baseball or something).

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Okay, fine then: Cube Beings have never shown the ability of multiversal creation/destruction. Closest I can remember is Molecule Man vs. Beyonder (Post - Retcon) where they cause effects across the multiverse, but they weren't actually creating and destroying universes.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Same thing for your scan of Rom. Obviously he's not the only being in the cosmos that could stop them. And we've already seen fights between beings of that level in Marvel that didn't do the kind of damage he's implying.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
And she was a mortal being at that time, given scientific equipment (she was only an applicant to the science academy either, not accepted yet).

Originally posted by Endless Mike
I can't find it currently but it is referenced in several articles on Tenchi and GXP.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
I never said there were.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
It would because they can be created so easily and casually. In GXP a scientist said that Fuku has as much energy as "a small universe", imply familiarity with the existence of such things. Apparently scientists in Tenchiverse can create universes for shits and giggles. This is without using cosmic powers.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Also you're ignoring how each universe in the hyperdimension is much more complex and expansive than the last.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Only because we are unable to perceive them. If I am correct, current physics suggests that there are several extra spacial dimensions but they are on the subatomic level and far too small for us to detect.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
InSM directly references events and characters in TM!

Originally posted by Astner

I'm still anxiously awaiting evidence for that any of the other series are canonically related to Ryo-Ohki, and not another "What-if..." story.

They have character cross-over with characters specifically said to be from the main one and unlike Universe and Tokyo were made by the main creator (which is the reason they're not related).

In-universe cross over and word of maker.

Which is ridiculous within itself, since our mind would remain unaffected by additional spatial dimensions.

Once again, speculation holds no water.

It is however evidence that the beings who interact with Tenchi were not from the higher dimensional worlds and thus the 'dimensions 1-11' we've seen do not correspond to the number of universes, which is the point of bringing it up.

Not really speculation, just debunking the 'there's 11 universes' thing you brought up.

There doesn't seem to be anything to say how many universes there are.

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