Fahrenheit 9/11

I'll see it on my pirate-copied CD as it won't open here in DK until August. I usually enjoy Michael Moore’s books and his “The awful truth”, especially because his critics cannot counteract MM’s POINTS. They attack his person, which won’t make the “awful truth” go away.

Dogbert> Politicians make a living out of distorting the truth – especially around election time. And tell me – the ignorant European – what truth have you caught Michael Moore in distorting?

Vengenace> Why did you HATE “Bowling for Columbine”?
“well he hates whites man, his books are always called stupid white men.” Always? How many books have that title? If I wrote a book called ”Stupid blondes” I, a woman, would be a malechauvinist?

WindDancer> “That's another reason why some people don't like him. Using the AMPAS show to promote his anti-war comments!” Would it have been okay with you if some director had made a support speech for ”our boys” during the AMPAS?

” I personally wont see the movie cuz Morrie is a lying liberal. He only shows one side of a story and never gives all the facts. Moore makes money of tragic events in America. How much money did he make from the Columbine shootings and 9/11?????”

How much money did flag-makers make after 9/11??
Why is Moore a lying liberal? Can you tell me a lie you’ve caught him in making?

No one in this thread has offered me any facts as to the ”lies” and ”distorted truth” MM supposedly makes. Instead I see some personal attacks on the MAN, and that is just laughable.

Phoenix> MM is censored in some states????? In some US states??!?!?!?!??!

Originally posted by The Omega
WindDancer> “That's another reason why some people don't like him. Using the AMPAS show to promote his anti-war comments!” Would it have been okay with you if some director had made a support speech for ”our boys” during the AMPAS?

The Oscars ceremony is an event where they celebrate the best films in the entertainment business NOT a place for politicians like Michael Moore to spewed his opinions on a war! The Oscars is suppose to be a non-political ceremony! There is a time and place to boast your political ideas but to use a ceremony like the Oscars is pretty low! IMO the Oscars is NOT a place to promote anti-war or pro-war simply put NO politics!

Originally posted by The Omega
I'll see it on my pirate-copied CD as it won't open here in DK until August. I usually enjoy Michael Moore’s books and his “The awful truth”, especially because his critics cannot counteract MM’s POINTS. They attack his person, which won’t make the “awful truth” go away.

They attack his person? Really? then what is Michael doing to Bush in his movies?? Isn't that futher proof that he is playing the role of politicial promoter? Didn't Joseph Gobbels use his films to turn the German people agains't their former government? Didn't he ridicule the old government to promote the Nazi party? I'm not accusing Michael Moore of being a racist, but he obviously loves to make films criticizing the American Government.

"his critics cannot counteract MM’s POINTS"

Utter nonsense.

http://www.bowlingfortruth.com/

http://www.moorewatch.com/

There are a couple of sites to educate you on Moore's version of the 'truth'. If you can open your eyes for just a few minutes you will see that his version of the 'truth' means only letting you see the negative aspects of the country that allows his pockets to fill with money.

I guess hypocrites and the blind go together like chocolate and peanut butter.

Moore should be ashamed of 'F-9/11'
Movie Review
Cook County News-Herald
Last Updated: Friday, July 02nd, 2004 12:31:01 PM

Kevin Carr
Movie reviewer
What can I say about “Fahrenheit 9/11” that you can’t already guess? If you are in line with Michael Moore’s politics, you’re gonna love this movie. But if you disagree with him – or maybe even find yourself somewhere in the middle – you just might find this the most grossly speculative, obnoxious, racist, obscured and hate-filled movie yet.
The movie opens with a temper tantrum about the 2000 election, where Moore accuses George W. Bush of having his brother and other buddies fix the results by locking out African American voters. However, he commits some pretty major sins of omission. I remember election night 2000 well, and my memory doesn’t quite jive with what Moore says.
With this sloppy presentation of the facts – even before the credits roll – on something we should all remember, I can’t help but wonder how accurate or truthful the rest of the film is. Case in point, Moore shows footage reportedly shot on March 19, 2003 in Baghdad, right before the American invasion. It shows kids playing, women smiling and families eating together. Apparently Moore didn’t have any footage of torture chambers, rape rooms or mass Kurdish graves to throw in as well. Oh yeah, I forgot. That doesn’t fit in his agenda. So, let’s not “document” those facts.
Most of the film itself is spent showing clips of Bush and company that make them look foolish. Here’s a news flash for you: it doesn’t take a genius to make a public official look like a boob. With thousands of hours of press coverage and archival footage, there’s plenty of stammering to go around.
At times, Moore completely abandons any pretext of a documentary and slips into fiction by literally putting words into Bush’s mouth and thoughts into the man’s head. Moore skewers Bush for reading a book to elementary school kids while planes were flying into the World Trade Center. He even goes as far to narrate a voice over for the President while he sits for seven minutes, letting the news sink in. Moore criticizes Bush for not reacting, but I don’t know what Moore was expecting? Did he want to see Bush rocket away from the school, terrifying teachers and kids, with no more information than what was on CNN? Personally, I prefer a President that would collect his thoughts before taking rash action.
Much of this film shows the ugly side of war. But remember that the purpose of the military is to kill people and break things. War is an ugly business.
So maybe Michael Moore simply wanted to lash out against war. Well, where was he during Clinton’s administration when he was lobbing missiles into Sudanese aspirin factories and sending our soldiers to die in Somalia?
“Fahrenheit 9/11” is a film full of hate. Hate for Bush. Hate for the war on terror. Hate for pretty much everyone but Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden. Moore blames George W. Bush and his father for everything from the lack of state troopers in Oregon to the miserable economy in Flint, Michigan. I’ll bet Roger Smith is glad that the Bush boys can now take the blame for this.
But, this film won the Palm d’Or at Cannes and received a twenty minute standing ovation. Well, I’m stunned that a group of elite liberal Hollywood art house fans at a French film festival loved this movie.
The absolute worst part of the film is Moore’s vampiric treatment of Lili, a woman from Moore’s home town of Flint, whose son served in Iraq. Through the first part of the film, Moore presents her as the proud soldier’s mom. Sure, she’s a bit of a flake, but she’s a loveable flake. However, after her son is killed in combat, Moore keeps the camera jammed in her face and forces the audience through her grief. In one scene where she visits the White House after her son’s death, she breaks down into an emotional mess. To me, this was more sickening to watch than the “horrors of war” footage showing death and mutilations.
I do not belittle the pain the parents of our country’s fallen soldiers go through. But to use their raw, unfettered emotion as a commercial for the Democratic party is just plain crass.
Shame on you, Mr. Moore. Shame on you.
Kevin Carr is a nationally syndicated movie critic

"Much of this film shows the ugly side of war. But remember that the purpose of the military is to kill people and break things. War is an ugly business.
So maybe Michael Moore simply wanted to lash out against war."

Worst review I've ever read. He didn't make any actual points.

"Didn't he ridicule the old government to promote the Nazi party? I'm not accusing Michael Moore of being a racist, but he obviously loves to make films criticizing the American Government."

Yep, and his criticisms are usually just and valid.

Originally posted by Creechuur
"his critics cannot counteract MM’s POINTS"

Utter nonsense.

http://www.bowlingfortruth.com/

http://www.moorewatch.com/

There are a couple of sites to educate you on Moore's version of the 'truth'. If you can open your eyes for just a few minutes you will see that his version of the 'truth' means only letting you see the negative aspects of the country that allows his pockets to fill with money.

I guess hypocrites and the blind go together like chocolate and peanut butter.

See that's also one of my views. He can make a 1000 films dissing Bush or criticizing him for the war. Is his rigthful thing to do. His right to use freedom of speech is perfectly fine. BUT when he makes claims that his OPINION is the "Truth" it is simply a big pile of BS!

Also this film isn't all about telling the so-called truth and facts people are claiming about him. This film is just like Passion, Supersize Me, Michael Moore hates America, or even JFK their sole purpose is meant for only one thing!.............to make MONEY! So for the fans of Michael MOOOOOre that claim he is exposing the truth.............LMAO! All he is doing is trying to make a dolla outta all of these Bush hating going on in the world.

After all if George W. Bush wasn't president Michael MOOOOOre wouldn't have a job or a film to make money out of it. That's my view on this whole nonsense.

btw- lookie here:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5335853/site/newsweek

"No one in this thread has offered me any facts as to the ”lies” and ”distorted truth” MM supposedly makes. Instead I see some personal attacks on the MAN, and that is just laughable."

Hell's teeth, Omega, I cannot adequately get across how disappointed I am by that statement. Read the provided links- they are full of refutations- both on principle and factual- of a lot of the stuff Moore says. Whilst who is right is debatable, you cannot claim that every single word is a personal atack, and certainly no more than the attacks Moore himself makes on figures in the course of his discourse.

Some of Moore's proponents seem to be exercising a very powerful form of self-deception here.

Originally posted by mah
Of course everyone's innocent until proven guilty. I can't believe you make a case out of it, Cinemaddiction, you truly are desperate to make rancid claims about Moore. Very disgusting.

Vengeance, you are the stupidest person alive.

Ush> You’re missing the point. I’m not saying MM is beyond fault or error, but reading through this thread I saw none of the Moore-opponents WRITE out just a few of the “supposed” distorted truths and lies MM made.
http://www.tacitus.org/story/2004/6/23/21547/3751 This site, for example, claims Moore is a Hezbollah supporter. That is AGAIN attacking the MAN, not what the man says. And this site http://slate.msn.com/id/2102723/ does not refute the POINTS MM makes either, it’s not in any way an objective analysis of the movie, and spends most of the time discussing MM’s opinions as stated as MM’s opinions.

WindDancer> Woaw, don’t you think drawing in Gobbels in a discussion on Michael Moore is going a bit too far? While you’re allowed your opinion that there should be no politics in the Oscar Ceremonies (and that opinion is in itself political), you’re now basically saying that it’s okay for Moore-opponents to attacks his person, because Moore goes after Bush? What about going after the POINTS Moore is making? If he is wrong in what he says, his opponents would be far better off simply proving that what MM says is WRONG than attacking the man himself.
”I'm not accusing Michael Moore of being a racist, but he obviously loves to make films criticizing the American Government.”
What if there IS something to critizise?
(P.S.: The link you provided in your last post isn’t working for me, the window crashes. Could you check the URL?)

Creechur> I’ve looked through the sites you provided. I’m still to find somewhere were there’s a clear lie beind told. Maybe it slipped my attention, so I’m sure you can point me in the right direction. Right?
” If you can open your eyes for just a few minutes you will see that his version of the 'truth' means only letting you see the negative aspects of the country that allows his pockets to fill with money.”
Maybe I am really missing the point. Is there somwthing wrong with pointing out negative aspects that needs correcting?
And the review: It – again – doesn’t show me where MM is lying or distoring the truth. In your book I must be both blind and a hypocrite, so enlighten me if you’d be so kind…

"And this site http://slate.msn.com/id/2102723/ does not refute the POINTS MM makes either, it’s not in any way an objective analysis of the movie, and spends most of the time discussing MM’s opinions as stated as MM’s opinions."

Well xcuse me, Omega, but opinionated as that article is, it does actually directly contest several of MM's points, most notably how his attempt to weave conspiracy about departing Saudi's has been rather demolished recently by Clarke's admission that it was him, not some shady White House dictat.

I cannot understand why you would say it raises no counter-points.

Ush> But Clarke worked in the White House at the time. So claiming that the White House approved the flights is correct.

Omega, I provided links so that I would not have to waste my time typing things that another has already said quite well. You have fingers, you have eyes, you have a mouse...use them. The truth is right there in front of you, don't blame me (or anyone else) for not providing for you what you should be able to find yourself. On the other hand, its a free planet. If you want to be remain blind and take Moore's word as gospel, you just go right ahead. You don't live in America, so its not like it affects you anyways, but I'm sure that won't stop you from attempting to keep the argument going, since that seems to be your favorite pastime.

Michael Moore is fat. He's really fat. There, a personal attack just for you!

Originally posted by Creechuur
Omega, I provided links so that I would not have to waste my time typing things that another has already said quite well. You have fingers, you have eyes, you have a mouse...use them. The truth is right there in front of you, don't blame me (or anyone else) for not providing for you what you should be able to find yourself. On the other hand, its a free planet. If you want to be remain blind and take Moore's word as gospel, you just go right ahead. You don't live in America, so its not like it affects you anyways, but I'm sure that won't stop you from attempting to keep the argument going, since that seems to be your favorite pastime.

Michael Moore is fat. He's really fat. There, a personal attack just for you!

i love this thread because it's the only one i can use as a soapbox for my own beliefs. Michael savage is a hate mongering moron, america has become saudi arabia's *****, and reagan deserved dying a mindless vegetable for all the people he hurt, ruined, and killed in his miserable worthless life. his buddies too, duarte, marcos, hussein, poppa doc duvalier, idi amin, etc...

i feel better now.

and I am a patriotic american because i'm honest enough to say that would like to fix those problems. america should not be at the mercy of any foreign government, especially saudi arabia. I believe in the ideals america was founded on, ideals that we are doing a piss poor job of upholding.

Man I've been away too long.

Omega and Ushgarak I'm glad to see you two are still around. 🙂

I refuse to get into a huge debate about Moore's film. All I will say is go and see it for yourself, then make your judgments.

Its funny some of the people who will remain nameless (Vengeance) don't have the slightest clue as to what is really going on right now.

Its one thing to hate the man, but don't turn a blind eye to the message.

He may be biased, but can you really refute all of what he has said? I think not.

It amazes me how anyone can make serious statements about something they have not seen or read about. It seems they are just going along with the crowd, not really forming any true opinion about the subject, but just regurgitating others view points.

In the end it just shows that the person has not done their homework.

Take the time to fully understand all points of view before you open your mouth about anything. Without doing so, just makes you look very foolish indeed.

Originally posted by -=Urot=-
Man I've been away too long.

Omega and Ushgarak I'm glad to see you two are still around. 🙂

I refuse to get into a huge debate about Moore's film. All I will say is go and see it for yourself, then make your judgments.

Its funny some of the people who will remain nameless (Vengeance) don't have the slightest clue as to what is really going on right now.

Its one thing to hate the man, but don't turn a blind eye to the message.

He may be biased, but can you really refute all of what he has said? I think not.

It amazes me how anyone can make serious statements about something they have not seen or read about. It seems they are just going along with the crowd, not really forming any true opinion about the subject, but just regurgitating others view points.

In the end it just shows that the person has not done their homework.

Take the time to fully understand all points of view before you open your mouth about anything. Without doing so, just makes you look very foolish indeed.

Vengeance, no offense, but work on your grammar and writing skills if you want to be taken seriously. That crap may go over in a chat room, but you have time to thoughtfully and correctly type here in a forum. You should do so.

i love this thread because it's the only one i can use as a soapbox for my own beliefs. Michael savage is a hate mongering moron, america has become saudi arabia's *****, and reagan deserved dying a mindless vegetable for all the people he hurt, ruined, and killed in his miserable worthless life. his buddies too, duarte, marcos, hussein, poppa doc duvalier, idi amin, etc...

What gave you the idea that this was your personal soapbox??? We're talking about Michael Moore's movie, and I don't think he has the balls to mention Savage, so stay on topic. I'm glad you feel better...if by better you mean ignorant.

I love how some libs talk all day about whats wrong with the US and that it needs to be fixed, but thats it. Nothing positive ever comes out of their mouths, much less a realistic solution to the problems they love bitching about. They lay on a bed of hate, with idealism as a warm, cozy blanket.

Originally posted by Creechuur
Vengeance, no offense, but work on your grammar and writing skills if you want to be taken seriously. That crap may go over in a chat room, but you have time to thoughtfully and correctly type here in a forum. You should do so.

What gave you the idea that this was your personal soapbox??? We're talking about Michael Moore's movie, and I don't think he has the balls to mention Savage, so stay on topic. I'm glad you feel better...if by better you mean ignorant.

I love how some libs talk all day about whats wrong with the US and that it needs to be fixed, but thats it. Nothing positive ever comes out of their mouths, much less a realistic solution to the problems they love bitching about. They lay on a bed of hate, with idealism as a warm, cozy blanket.