Batman vs Captain America

Originally posted by MrHeavySilence

In a regular H2H, I am convinced that it will be 5/10 for both fighters. Batman is the better martial artist imo because 1) he is definitely more diversified as a fighter and uses all kinds of variations in a fight, while Captain America, 95% of the time, uses only boxing, kickboxing and jujutsu.
Steve knows a lot of different styles, but he almost never uses them.

This is incorrect. Cap was shown using ninjitsu against some ninjas way back in WW2.

He knows Chinese martial arts because he was teaching Spiderman about chi.

I think he was taeching Wonder Man some akido principles.

Most MA regardless of who they are will not broadcast what style they are using to the reader. Since Cap knows alot we assume he will vary his style according to the situation.

Originally posted by MrHeavySilence

. 2) Batman uses H2H more often while Cap is more reliant on the shield.

Cap uses his shield but he is not reliant on it. Even with his shield Cap has better agility feats.

This is Cap without the SSS serum

http://img474.imageshack.us/my.php?image=thunderstrike0404md9.jpg

Do you see how Cap has his shield but isnt even bothering to use it?

http://img444.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wow1cg3.jpg

Really sometimes you can see that Cap doesnt even have to use his shield its there for extra protection.

Originally posted by Alfheim
This is incorrect. Cap was shown using ninjitsu against some ninjas way back in WW2.

He knows Chinese martial arts because he was teaching Spiderman about chi.

I think he was taeching Wonder Man some akido principles.

Most MA regardless of who they are will not broadcast what style they are using to the reader. Since Cap knows alot we assume he will vary his style according to the situation.

Cap uses his shield but he is not reliant on it. Even with his shield Cap has better agility feats.

This is Cap without the SSS serum

http://img474.imageshack.us/my.php?image=thunderstrike0404md9.jpg

Do you see how Cap has his shield but isnt even bothering to use it?

http://img444.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wow1cg3.jpg

Really sometimes you can see that Cap doesnt even have to use his shield its there for extra protection.

Yes, I know that Captain America is more than capable without his shield. What I meant was that he does it less often than Bruce and that's why I think Batman has the edge, because he uses H2H more often.

And I know that Captain America knows a lot of different martial arts, but he almost never uses them outside of the main 3.

Originally posted by MrHeavySilence
Yes, I know that Captain America is more than capable without his shield. What I meant was that he does it less often than Bruce and that's why I think Batman has the edge, because he uses H2H more often.

Look what one earth are you talking about? Cap has a shield so he uses H2H less. Sure Batman doesnt have a shield but doesnt he use a utility belt as well? Despite the fact that Cap uses his shield he also constantly uses H2H as well. Its not going to make any difference.

Originally posted by MrHeavySilence

And I know that Captain America knows a lot of different martial arts, but he almost never uses them outside of the main 3.

Thats because of his bio and bios are crap. Pick up a Batman comic and a Cap comic and there is no difference between the way they fight. They both kick and punch and there is no indication to know what style they are using unless they say so.

Originally posted by MrHeavySilence
Yes, I know that Captain America is more than capable without his shield. What I meant was that he does it less often than Bruce and that's why I think Batman has the edge, because he uses H2H more often.

And I know that Captain America knows a lot of different martial arts, but he almost never uses them outside of the main 3.

Lovely sig, Who is that?

[QUOTE=9220429]Originally posted by Alfheim
Look what one earth are you talking about? Cap has a shield so he uses H2H less. Sure Batman doesnt have a shield but doesnt he use a utility belt as well? Despite the fact that Cap uses his shield he also constantly uses H2H as well. Its not going to make any difference.

You're right about the utility belt thing, but it's still very clear that if you read both of their comics, Batman engages in H2H much more often than Captain America, who almost always uses the shield.

Thats because of his bio and bios are crap. Pick up a Batman comic and a Cap comic and there is no difference between the way they fight. They both kick and punch and there is no indication to know what style they are using unless they say so.

Mhm, I'll come back to you on this one when I'm not so lazy to get the Batman scans (of him often incorporating different styles in fights).

Also, what you noticed is very true, almost all artists have no real knowledge of Martial Arts and so they just freestyle it and let their heroes punch and kick in absurd ways.

Many have tried beating Cap with tech weapons and Cap still wins. Cap is not just a dumb Boy Scout. Cap is battle tested and can think in on run......... Cap is a tad strong and faster....He would outlast Batman and win in the end. Knowing more fighting styles does not give Batman an automatic win..All you really need is one fighting style to win.

Originally posted by yugotank
Many have tried beating Cap with tech weapons and Cap still wins. Cap is not just a dumb Boy Scout. Cap is battle tested and can think in on run......... Cap is a tad strong and faster....He would outlast Batman and win in the end. Knowing more fighting styles does not give Batman an automatic win..All you really need is one fighting style to win.

Knowing more martial arts does not warrant a victory, but it is a huge advantage! It means you've got diversity and more knowledge on MA in general.

Originally posted by Alfheim

Thats because of his bio and bios are crap. Pick up a Batman comic and a Cap comic and there is no difference between the way they fight. They both kick and punch and there is no indication to know what style they are using unless they say so.

Alright, pulled this from the respect thread.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/363873_6-batman-fans-rejoice-a-batman-respect-thread

You'll find alot of examples where he uses different types of martial arts.

http://img11.imagevenue.com/view.php?loc=loc24&image=2d8_batcd1b.jpg

^
and the proof that he knows at the very least, 127.

Again if you want to use the more styles equals advantage argument, then it's Cap that has the advantage.

He has after all stated in the comics that he is adept at all styles, stated he was better trained than Cache(who was stated to know all styles) and Marvel handbooks and site list his fighting skills at 7, which according to Marvel means 'master of all sytles'.

cap is a better fighter and leader. batman is a better planner. in combat cap beats him.

The 127 fighting styles that Batman knows is a non factor....If Batman came across a foe that knows "137" different MA skills would Batman lose? NO!.......Get real! A punch from pro boxer vs a punch from a "kung-fu" master....Who hits harder? A kick from a "kung-fu" master vs a kick from a NFL place kicker. Who kicks harder? Asian MA skills have lots in common with one another. They do borrow from one another. Who can say which MA is 100% pure and original????

Punch,block Kick,block grapel,punch,kick etc.etc.etc......Both guys are tops in their world. Does it matter what you call it????

Batman is the Master Prepper but Cap in battle tested in the bloody battlefields of WWII. Both can come up with a battle plan. Cap leads the Avengers,Batman leads the JLA....Both have what it takes!

Both Cap and Batman are superskilled unarmed fighters. Whether they use 1,5,50 or 100 different styles what's the difference? That being said,Cap vs Batman in unarmed combat,not belt or shield,skill wise it's a draw....

Cap being "more peak" human gives him the win. Both do would do whatever they could to secure a victory...Both are tough and smart fighters........But Cap wins this one in the 25th round.

CAPTAIN AMERICA IS THE VICTOR!

Originally posted by yugotank
The 127 fighting styles that Batman knows is a non factor....If Batman came across a foe that knows "137" different MA skills would Batman lose? NO!.......Get real! A punch from pro boxer vs a punch from a "kung-fu" master....Who hits harder? A kick from a "kung-fu" master vs a kick from a NFL place kicker. Who kicks harder? Asian MA skills have lots in common with one another. They do borrow from one another. Who can say which MA is 100% pure and original????

Punch,block Kick,block grapel,punch,kick etc.etc.etc......Both guys are tops in their world. Does it matter what you call it????

Batman is the Master Prepper but Cap in battle tested in the bloody battlefields of WWII. Both can come up with a battle plan. Cap leads the Avengers,Batman leads the JLA....Both have what it takes!

Both Cap and Batman are superskilled unarmed fighters. Whether they use 1,5,50 or 100 different styles what's the difference? That being said,Cap vs Batman in unarmed combat,not belt or shield,skill wise it's a draw....

Cap being "more peak" human gives him the win. Both do would do whatever they could to secure a victory...Both are tough and smart fighters........But Cap wins this one in the 25th round.

CAPTAIN AMERICA IS THE VICTOR!

Just figure it as this, both of them are top tier fighters of their individual franchises. So lets reach a bit and say that hand to hand, they are even. Granted they arent, but the difference I think would be slight enough to call it a wash. So it comes down to outside factors. Batman's utlity belt vs Captain America's shield + Super Soldier body. Captain would last longer so barring a lucky acid flask to the face, Im giving it to Captain America for the majority.

Originally posted by yugotank
The 127 fighting styles that Batman knows is a non factor....If Batman came across a foe that knows "137" different MA skills would Batman lose? NO!.......Get real! A punch from pro boxer vs a punch from a "kung-fu" master....Who hits harder? A kick from a "kung-fu" master vs a kick from a NFL place kicker. Who kicks harder? Asian MA skills have lots in common with one another. They do borrow from one another. Who can say which MA is 100% pure and original????

Punch,block Kick,block grapel,punch,kick etc.etc.etc......Both guys are tops in their world. Does it matter what you call it????

Batman is the Master Prepper but Cap in battle tested in the bloody battlefields of WWII. Both can come up with a battle plan. Cap leads the Avengers,Batman leads the JLA....Both have what it takes!

Both Cap and Batman are superskilled unarmed fighters. Whether they use 1,5,50 or 100 different styles what's the difference? That being said,Cap vs Batman in unarmed combat,not belt or shield,skill wise it's a draw....

Cap being "more peak" human gives him the win. Both do would do whatever they could to secure a victory...Both are tough and smart fighters........But Cap wins this one in the 25th round.

CAPTAIN AMERICA IS THE VICTOR!

All Martial Arts are different and suited to give you an advantage in different situations
http://www.fightingarts.com/reading/article.php?id=273

Its not a non-factor to know 100+ martial arts; it gives you more options/diversity to fight with, and many of those options change the sleight of hand in your favor.

Anyways, I do agree that Captain America and Batman are probably the same in terms of skill, but Cap's not gonna win just because he's more peak human. You forget that Batman has a Wonder-Woman-Punch-Durable-suit with shoulder blades and finger knives, so I think its pretty even in the H2H department.

If you're going to include weapons, I say Batman gets the victory 6/10; he's got way too many weapons to count.

Originally posted by MrHeavySilence
You forget that Batman has a Wonder-Woman-Punch-Durable-suit with shoulder blades and finger knives, so I think its pretty even in the H2H department.

If you're going to include weapons, I say Batman gets the victory 6/10; he's got way too many weapons to count.

Thats not standard equipment........you need to distinguish between standard equipment and preped equipment.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Thats not standard equipment........you need to distinguish between standard equipment and preped equipment.

How can it NOT be standard equipment? That stuff is part of his suit just like the serum is part of Captain America. Prepped equipment would be like bringing boomtubes or something out of ordinary.

Originally posted by MrHeavySilence
How can it NOT be standard equipment? That stuff is part of his suit just like the serum is part of Captain America. Prepped equipment would be like bringing boomtubes or something out of ordinary.

Er no. The serum is with cap all the time even when hes naked...batmans suit isnt. You are making the assumption just because you see Batman with something that it means its part of his normal equipment.

If his suit was always WW proof he wouldnt get hurt by street levllers or have to dodge bullets...obvoulsy he made that suit especially for WW.

Originally posted by MrHeavySilence
All Martial Arts are different and suited to give you an advantage in different situations
http://www.fightingarts.com/reading/article.php?id=273

Its not a non-factor to know 100+ martial arts; it gives you more options/diversity to fight with, and many of those options change the sleight of hand in your favor.

Yes but at the same time, if you know 127 styles of combat, you know 127 styles of conventional combat. Cap has mastered many styles yet still, he is smart enough to take these styles, along with his superior agility and speed, and create his own unique style, free of all the fancy fluff and has basic, straight to the point attacks.

Batman is trapped in the fact that he must use 127 styles of combat, he must use their techniques, he must use their movements, their attacks, everything.

Cap, isn't, his style is his style, it is able to adjust to anything because it is so simple. While batman may pull out a style cap is familiar with, Cap wont, because batman has never seen his style.

Think about fighting someone, If you go into the ring with someone who is a natural boxer, obviously your going to want to keep your guard up, don't throw any punches or kicks that could leave you open because he will make you pay. Or you go against someone who's a masterful kicker, your going to want to get inside, because obviously, he is going to kill you at long range.

Most martial artist can recognize a style being used, and then think "Okay against this style, I better do this or that". Whats batman going to think when he sees a style he has never seen before, He is really not going to know what to expect, until its probably too late.

All I'm saying is, 127 styles if fine, but its not the be all end all. Cap has his own style batman has never seen, nor fought against, which is why I say guys that have created their own unique style are in my mind, the best Martial artist in comics.

Last time someone created their own unique style in real life, he was the greatest fighter of his time.

Now with all that said, Batman takes it 6-7/10. Too many weapons and what not. 😉

I hate this whole I know x amount of Martial Arts styles BS. At the end of the day any decent fighter who has studied more than one form of martial art will take what works and use it in his or her own style.

In a fight without rules or stipulations all bets are off and its often the dirtiest fighter who wins, not the one who knows the most styles.

Just my two cents.

Batman wins due to more diversive weaponry in his utility belt. Good fight though. 🙂

In an pure street fight,no weapons/Shields/body armor Cap wins 6/10,maybe more. Cap can take a punch better,is faster,stronger and would outlast Batman.Not by a great deal,but Cap is "max" peak in the physical sense....Bats is a VERY smart fighter but Cap is not a stupid jobber villian.Cap may not be as "tech" smart as Bruce but Cap is a "smart" fighter as well ...and many people have used "dirty Fighting" and "cheaps" shots againt him. When did the Red Skull ever fight "clean" ???

Batman and his belt could go 6/10,maybe more,in Batman's favor.

Cap does not use a tool belt (classic Cap,not Ultimate)....Nor does Daredevil. I'm sure with Stark,Black Panther and Reed Richard's help both Cap and Daredevil could get a nice tool belt for Christmas. They just don't want one....it's not their style....Batman without a belt would be like Punisher without a gun......Not that they couldn't fight without it,it's that it's part of their persona.....part of their gameplan.

If you want a "Tool-Belt" fight than Batman vs Black Panther is the match up!