Originally posted by ExtraMision5555535 came out today i'm looking at it right now this is a loooong overdue fight
whoa, when did 535 come out? Wait,So the last issue wehre spiderman ha da breif fight with Captain america, the issue AFTER that, he starts the fight with iron man??
if so, then good
if notim sorely behind
actually.. i'll say this... if spiderman takes a page out of captain america's book and fights up close.. he'll have a hell of a shot at taking down iron man, granted I'm not entirely up to snuff on what the suit can do, but we DO know that iron man has incredible difficulty dealing with faster oponents in hand to hand combat... that being the case, stark doesn't have the skills to compensate with spiderman's speed, this has been showcased on a number of occasions... hell he's outright admitted that cap could have potentially mopped the city with him in a mano y mano and frankly, some hand ninjas were taking it to iron man up close in the new avengers. At a distance, iron man can manhandle spiderman, using stuff to smash spiderman with, that might very well work too, but up close in a man to man fight, spiderman DOES have the speed to dodge iron man, he DOES have the reflexes to get in his hits as well, and he DOES have the power to ring IM with enough of them.
so realistically.. no it won't be THAT easy for IM.. given the right circumtances...
Originally posted by jinzin
actually.. i'll say this... if spiderman takes a page out of captain america's book and fights up close.. he'll have a hell of a shot at taking down iron man, granted I'm not entirely up to snuff on what the suit can do, but we DO know that iron man has incredible difficulty dealing with faster oponents in hand to hand combat... that being the case, stark doesn't have the skills to compensate with spiderman's speed, this has been showcased on a number of occasions... hell he's outright admitted that cap could have potentially mopped the city with him in a mano y mano and frankly, some hand ninjas were taking it to iron man up close in the new avengers. At a distance, iron man can manhandle spiderman, using stuff to smash spiderman with, that might very well work too, but up close in a man to man fight, spiderman DOES have the speed to dodge iron man, he DOES have the reflexes to get in his hits as well, and he DOES have the power to ring IM with enough of them.so realistically.. no it won't be THAT easy for IM.. given the right circumtances...
Jin, that's the smartest thing I've seen you write in a long time. And I agree completely.
And that was a compliment, don't worry.
And really, why wouldn't Spidey bring it up close? I mean, he KNOWS he can't even begin to compare at distance. He's got to take it close. And he can definitely stay inside of Tony's defenses/offenses, since his fighting skills FAR surpass Tony's.
But seriously. Are we actually agreeing somewhat here? It's so rare that I forget it can happen at times... 😛
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Only thing Spiderman can take advantage of is that Iron Man isn't going to "nuke the area" or anything like that with Torch,
granted.. that's why I'm arguing in favor of h2h.
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
but c'mon guys he isn't winning on this forum at all. ❌
Originally posted by jinzin
actually.. i'll say this... if spiderman takes a page out of captain america's book and fights up close.. he'll have a hell of a shot at taking down iron man, granted I'm not entirely up to snuff on what the suit can do, but we DO know that iron man has incredible difficulty dealing with faster oponents in hand to hand combat... that being the case, stark doesn't have the skills to compensate with spiderman's speed, this has been showcased on a number of occasions... hell he's outright admitted that cap could have potentially mopped the city with him in a mano y mano and frankly, some hand ninjas were taking it to iron man up close in the new avengers. At a distance, iron man can manhandle spiderman, using stuff to smash spiderman with, that might very well work too, but up close in a man to man fight, spiderman DOES have the speed to dodge iron man, he DOES have the reflexes to get in his hits as well, and he DOES have the power to ring IM with enough of them.so realistically.. no it won't be THAT easy for IM.. given the right circumtances...
This is pertty much flawless
Originally posted by Tha C-Masterprobably. or cause he's pissed.. remember.. he tries to toe to toe guys like hulk, the lava man, and the stone men all the time, and he never has to... 😬
Up close he would have difficulty, then again he would probably do that in character feeling sorry for Spiderman.
Generally I would never see any point as to why I should quote myself but. I'll give you my thoughts again as to why Spiderman wouldn't want to get in close. Besides the fact that spiderman tried to get in a closeup fihgt with captain america, and got handled for it....
Originally posted by rotiart
Okay here we go.1 In civil war #3 Iron man is beating the hell out of Captain America, saying that his suit has all of the recording fights of captain america on it, so it knows captain america's moves before he does them. Extremis Iron Man proceeds to pummel the crap out of cap... a guy that held his own against spiderman.
2. I forget the issue but, in the issue where they are planning an ambush, Iron Man specifically asked Spiderman to come with him, and to stay near him at all times. Spiderman after a few panels, reasoned out why. That Iron Man had found out about spiderman's spider sense through the nanosuit. Spidey thought, wait, it this thing can receive.. why can't it send..
Ironman has gained enough knowledge about spiderman through all the recent weeks of him wearing the suit to determine that spiderman has a spider sense. Something Peter states he never told Ironman about, which means that suit is capable of reading spideys thoughts and abilities. Meaning even in a fair fight, Ironman can do to spidey what he did to cap. Let the suit go on autopilot and have it beat spidey.
Ironman 10/10.
Ironman would handle spiderman upclose. weeks of monitoring...a suit that knows all your moves before you do, all your strengths and weaknesses.
Also Iron mans fault with quick opponents used to come from the fact his suit would react after tony thought it. Since injecting himself with the revised technorganic virus, the suit acts as extension of his own thoughts. The only person moving faster than Tony as of right now is sentry... and spidey is no where near sentry level. 😄
Originally posted by rotiartproblem with this is.. one: stark doesn't have the skills to handle spidey up close...
Generally I would never see any point as to why I should quote myself but. I'll give you my thoughts again as to why Spiderman wouldn't want to get in close. Besides the fact that spiderman tried to get in a closeup fihgt with captain america, and got handled for it....Ironman would handle spiderman upclose. weeks of monitoring...a suit that knows all your moves before you do, all your strengths and weaknesses.
two: spiderman doesn't have a fighting style...
three: ap has been trained honed and tempered... while spiderman is purely and simply a reactive fighter... tony's suit can't estimate what spiderman's next move is going to be since spiderman can't even do that.. the fact that that's exactly what cap does 3 or steps ahead of himself actually hindered him while fighting IM.. it wouldn't do the same to spiderman...
it's the same principle under which mr. X fought wolverine.... hope that makes sense.
Originally posted by rotiart
Also Iron mans fault with quick opponents used to come from the fact his suit would react after tony thought it. Since injecting himself with the revised technorganic virus, the suit acts as extension of his own thoughts. The only person moving faster than Tony as of right now is sentry... and spidey is no where near sentry level. 😄
again stark isn't properly trained enough in h2h for this to make a diference.. you see.. when spiderman fights people who can move literally as fast as they think he's able to react to it and compensate because of his spidersense...
tony will think.. then act... it's not a fault of his suit, but rather of the individual himself.... ironman can fly as fast as sentry sure.. but I wouldn't bet on iron-man in a weaving contest against a guy like quicksilver right now... 😕
again... hand ninjas were already all over stark in an up close fight.. HAND NINJAS for god sakes!, there's no reason spidey can't do the same sans shields.. but for the sake of h2h combat we're not discussion those.
1. stark doesn't need skills, he lets his suit do it for him like he did against cap. As for spidermans fighting style.
2/ Cap said that he studied spiderman's fighting styel, and that was why he was able to go toe to toe with spiderman. Spiderman admitted that cap was a greater fighter than he is. In the comic where spiderman beats the hulk, electro sits in a bar watching the live televised fight and tells the Thing each and every one of the move spiderman is going to do. Also you'd have to ignore that he has spent the last several weeks upclose and person with Peter. The past 4 decades of comics where there has got to be video of peter fighting. And the time that spiderman would have spent fighting alongside and training with the Avengers alongside of IronMan.
3. Howsabout this, ignoring the fighting style. He taps into spidermans suit with the technovirus... (or just cause he created the suit) and sends false signals to tell spiderman to jump one way or the other.
Originally posted by jinzin
again stark isn't properly trained enough in h2h for this to make a diference.. you see.. when spiderman fights people who can move literally as fast as they think he's able to react to it and compensate because of his spidersense...
tony will think.. then act... it's not a fault of his suit, but rather of the individual himself.... ironman can fly as fast as sentry sure.. but I wouldn't bet on iron-man in a weaving contest against a guy like quicksilver right now... 😕again... hand ninjas were already all over stark in an up close fight.. HAND NINJAS for god sakes!, there's no reason spidey can't do the same sans shields.. but for the sake of h2h combat we're not discussion those.
ironman is not as fast as sentry. sentry giving iron man a two panel head start, and ironman at full burn, still caught up 2 panels later.
as far as the hand. I maybe be mistaken, but wasn't that before extremis? iron man volume 4 issues 1-6? and wasn't it an avengers comic? you know how those team comics tend to downplay some characters and upplay others... cough jla... 🙂
Originally posted by rotiart
1. stark doesn't need skills, he lets his suit do it for him like he did against cap.
Originally posted by rotiartyes he did, he also started to turn the tide at the end of that fight by being unorthodox... as usual.
2/ Cap said that he studied spiderman's fighting styel, and that was why he was able to go toe to toe with spiderman. Spiderman admitted that cap was a greater fighter than he is.
Originally posted by rotiartwhich was some of the worst writing I've ever seen in my life..
In the comic where spiderman beats the hulk,
Originally posted by rotiart
electro sits in a bar watching the live televised fight and tells the Thing each and every one of the move spiderman is going to do.
that's actually a pretty good argument.. but could you provide the scans because I don't remember it going down exactly like that, though I could be wrong.
Originally posted by rotiartI'm not ignoring anything.. the fact remains.. spiderman is a reactive fighter.. he relies totally on instinct.. even if iron man knew what spiderman may have done in a situation before.. there's no guarantee that spiderman will react that same way again.. simply due to the fact that spiderman will never react to the same thing in the same fasion twice since he's not trained to do so... you also have to take into account that the civil war incident isn't an ENTIRELY reliable example... cap having just been hit with his own shield and then speared through a brick wall by iron man, looked nowhere near peak condition.
Also you'd have to ignore that he has spent the last several weeks upclose and person with Peter. The past 4 decades of comics where there has got to be video of peter fighting. And the time that spiderman would have spent fighting alongside and training with the Avengers alongside of IronMan.
Originally posted by rotiartthen we're not talking hand to hand man to man as was what my argument pretained to.
3. Howsabout this, ignoring the fighting style. He taps into spidermans suit with the technovirus... (or just cause he created the suit) and sends false signals to tell spiderman to jump one way or the other.
Originally posted by rotiartflying speed isn't h2h speed.
ironman is not as fast as sentry. sentry giving iron man a two panel head start, and ironman at full burn, still caught up 2 panels later.
Originally posted by rotiarti don't know...
as far as the hand. I maybe be mistaken, but wasn't that before extremis? iron man volume 4 issues 1-6? and wasn't it an avengers comic? you know how those team comics tend to downplay some characters and upplay others... cough jla... 🙂