http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f77/t312047.html
Hope this helps. You don't have to read all of it, but the first few pages should explain. Not every writter is unbiased, neither is Marvel. Sometimes things happen when it shouldn't: Wolverine beating Exodus, Spiderman beating Firelord, etc.
Beyonnder: The point is in those fights...he LOST...the battle ended with Gladiator either unconscious and out of his misery...no matter the circumstances or "how" they did it, the fact is it was done, defeat still lingers around those battles like stink on a dog....
You "Dont" see Superman beating the Gladiator...are you insane!? What in gods name makes you even begin to think that Gladiator would stand up to the #1 Super hero of all time!?
Gladiator was defeated by Masterson Thor, The Hulk, Phoenix, Cannonball/Invisible woman, Superman did die in the battle against doomsday but HE TOOK DOOMSDAY DOWN WITH HIM...You guys always say Doomsday did this and that but as far as I saw it Doomsday was dead on the ground RIGHT BESIDE Supes...
Superman's losses in the comic book world are a rarity and if he loses its to market some Big comic plot thus The Death/Return of Superman, other than that Superman always concocts some kind of way to win unlike the Gladiator who's faced defeat on many occasions despite any excuses you have for "HOW" he lost..
The only way I can see the DC writers condoning Superman losing to someone not nearly on his popularity level is one of two ways: One being in some crossover comics Gladiator and Superman get into a scuffle and Glad either lands more blows or lands the final hardest attack right before the fight is "Interrupted" by some outward factor, the other way is obviously if some mega-villain(Apocalyse, Onslaught) goes on an all-out rampage resulting in Superman having to "team-up" to fight him, even then Superman would probably be a prime factor in the villains defeat....There is NO WAY dc writers are gonna let Superman in an all-out official battle lose to Gladiator, it just won't happen I "guarantee" it..Cheesy as it sounds Superman is just too powerful in the comic universe to be beaten by some nobody-rip-off version of himself whom loses most often in comic books...
It could go either way my ass, like I said above, the only way Glad would win is in a scuffle where he either lands more blows OR lands the last blow before some type of interferance occurs...In an all out official comic titled Superman vs Gladiator, DC WILL NOT ALLOW SUPERMANS REPUTATION TO BE TAINTED by some alien whom HALF DC FANS EVEN KNOW ABOUT BEAT THEIR FRANCHISE PLAYER...Be realistic for ONE SECOND, I'm sorry but comic politics would reign supreme, their top-selling multi-million dollar franchise/flagship character ain't gonna lose, if the dc writers ever condone that I'll admit all of them to a mental asylum..Their franchise heavy hitter losing his credibility to one of Marvel's imitation characters...are you an idiot!? Now we can go back and forth on their abilities every day of the week, but in reality stop being a fan for one second and "think" about how the comic business works....Superman is considered #1 in the DC universe no doubt about that, DC established the persona that Superman is the ultimate superhero to all comic fans alike, Gladiator is ummmmm his rip-off, known by 45% of the comic world and on top of that is an blatant imitation of the greatest hero of our time, do you really think dc writers are gonna condone Gladiator beaten Superman!? I mean really, if you do think they will then I got a bridge I'd like to sell you.....Gladiator was made to mock superman's cheesy hero-like qualities and if dc were to let this mockery defeat their main attraction then you shouldn't even post on this board because you're too much of a fanboy to comprehend my point...
Another point: Obviously the Marvel writers don't care enough about Gladiator to make his defeats frequent, I mean much as I hate to admit the hulk TRASHED gladiator in that comic, every move Glad tried failed miserably no matter how biased or one-sided the writers opinion was, Glad lost....Marvel "allowed" it to happen.....So the comic is official... .Superman and hulk fought it out in a official battle once and it was a flat out draw...It resulted in Superman and hulk teaming up against Lex Luthor and winning..Towards the end of the battle Superman even landed more blows than the hulk just before Supes thought of a plan to defeat Luthor's gamma gun...Sorry Marvel cares little enough for Glad's character to have him beat DC's main character, they sort of use Gladiator as a measuring stick as if any Marvel character owns Glad then they stand a good chance of owning superman...point blank...
Superman pummeled thor in one comic right before the avengers ganged up on him and Supes STILL held his own....I don't care how many anti-superman fans exist on this board, unless it's dc-induced then you aren't beating Superman in a one on one all out battle...Gladiator was "out-smarted" by Invisible girl/Cannonball...Superman has never been so naive in a battle, he always finds a way to defeat his adversary, he always rises to the challenge and if brute strength isn't enough then his intellect comes into play thus resulting in Superman winning...yeah Supes is as cheesy as they come but hell he made it this far selling comics so I guess the fans consent it..... 😆
Originally posted by SarKastic_OJ
Another point: Obviously the Marvel writers don't care enough about Gladiator to make his defeats frequent, I mean much as I hate to admit the hulk TRASHED gladiator in that comic, every move Glad tried failed miserably no matter how biased or one-sided the writers opinion was, Glad lost....Marvel "allowed" it to happen.....So the comic is official... .Superman and hulk fought it out in a official battle once and it was a flat out draw...It resulted in Superman and hulk teaming up against Lex Luthor and winning..Towards the end of the battle Superman even landed more blows than the hulk just before Supes thought of a plan to defeat Luthor's gamma gun...Sorry Marvel cares little enough for Glad's character to have him beat DC's main character, they sort of use Gladiator as a measuring stick as if any Marvel character owns Glad then they stand a good chance of owning superman...point blank...Superman pummeled thor in one comic right before the avengers ganged up on him and Supes STILL held his own....I don't care how many anti-superman fans exist on this board, unless it's dc-induced then you aren't beating Superman in a one on one all out battle...Gladiator was "out-smarted" by Invisible girl/Cannonball...Superman has never been so naive in a battle, he always finds a way to defeat his adversary, he always rises to the challenge and if brute strength isn't enough then his intellect comes into play thus resulting in Superman winning...yeah Supes is as cheesy as they come but hell he made it this far selling comics so I guess the fans consent it..... 😆
🤘 🤘 VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY TRUE
Sarkastic, I think most people are pretty certain that DC writers won't let Superman lose to any superhero from Marvel. However, I believe the point of these threads is to pit these characters in a fair fight and decide who would win logically, based on character traits and abilities they display more often than not. Comic politics and battles were a character needed to ambush or use somebody else's help to gain victory shouldn't be able to hold water as evidence.
Originally posted by SarKastic_OJ
Another point: Obviously the Marvel writers don't care enough about Gladiator to make his defeats frequent, I mean much as I hate to admit the hulk TRASHED gladiator in that comic, every move Glad tried failed miserably no matter how biased or one-sided the writers opinion was, Glad lost....Marvel "allowed" it to happen.....So the comic is official... .Superman and hulk fought it out in a official battle once and it was a flat out draw...It resulted in Superman and hulk teaming up against Lex Luthor and winning..Towards the end of the battle Superman even landed more blows than the hulk just before Supes thought of a plan to defeat Luthor's gamma gun...Sorry Marvel cares little enough for Glad's character to have him beat DC's main character, they sort of use Gladiator as a measuring stick as if any Marvel character owns Glad then they stand a good chance of owning superman...point blank...Superman pummeled thor in one comic right before the avengers ganged up on him and Supes STILL held his own....I don't care how many anti-superman fans exist on this board, unless it's dc-induced then you aren't beating Superman in a one on one all out battle...Gladiator was "out-smarted" by Invisible girl/Cannonball...Superman has never been so naive in a battle, he always finds a way to defeat his adversary, he always rises to the challenge and if brute strength isn't enough then his intellect comes into play thus resulting in Superman winning...yeah Supes is as cheesy as they come but hell he made it this far selling comics so I guess the fans consent it..... 😆
wow, This answers all my questions, thanks kat!!!
One thing, Superman is DC number #1 super hero? I though it was Batman cause of all the movies and stuff
Didnt Batman defeated Superman somehow I keep hearing?
SarKastic_OJ Beyonnder: The point is in those fights...he LOST...the battle ended with Gladiator either unconscious and out of his misery...no matter the circumstances or "how" they did it, the fact is it was done, defeat still lingers around those battles like stink on a dog....You "Dont" see Superman beating the Gladiator...are you insane!? What in gods name makes you even begin to think that Gladiator would stand up to the #1 Super hero of all time!?
Gladiator was defeated by Masterson Thor, The Hulk, Phoenix, Cannonball/Invisible woman, Superman did die in the battle against doomsday but HE TOOK DOOMSDAY DOWN WITH HIM...You guys always say Doomsday did this and that but as far as I saw it Doomsday was dead on the ground RIGHT BESIDE Supes...
Superman's losses in the comic book world are a rarity and if he loses its to market some Big comic plot thus The Death/Return of Superman, other than that Superman always concocts some kind of way to win unlike the Gladiator who's faced defeat on many occasions despite any excuses you have for "HOW" he lost..
The only way I can see the DC writers condoning Superman losing to someone not nearly on his popularity level is one of two ways: One being in some crossover comics Gladiator and Superman get into a scuffle and Glad either lands more blows or lands the final hardest attack right before the fight is "Interrupted" by some outward factor, the other way is obviously if some mega-villain(Apocalyse, Onslaught) goes on an all-out rampage resulting in Superman having to "team-up" to fight him, even then Superman would probably be a prime factor in the villains defeat....There is NO WAY dc writers are gonna let Superman in an all-out official battle lose to Gladiator, it just won't happen I "guarantee" it..Cheesy as it sounds Superman is just too powerful in the comic universe to be beaten by some nobody-rip-off version of himself whom loses most often in comic books...
It could go either way my ass, like I said above, the only way Glad would win is in a scuffle where he either lands more blows OR lands the last blow before some type of interferance occurs...In an all out official comic titled Superman vs Gladiator, DC WILL NOT ALLOW SUPERMANS REPUTATION TO BE TAINTED by some alien whom HALF DC FANS EVEN KNOW ABOUT BEAT THEIR FRANCHISE PLAYER...Be realistic for ONE SECOND, I'm sorry but comic politics would reign supreme, their top-selling multi-million dollar franchise/flagship character ain't gonna lose, if the dc writers ever condone that I'll admit all of them to a mental asylum..Their franchise heavy hitter losing his credibility to one of Marvel's imitation characters...are you an idiot!? Now we can go back and forth on their abilities every day of the week, but in reality stop being a fan for one second and "think" about how the comic business works....Superman is considered #1 in the DC universe no doubt about that, DC established the persona that Superman is the ultimate superhero to all comic fans alike, Gladiator is ummmmm his rip-off, known by 45% of the comic world and on top of that is an blatant imitation of the greatest hero of our time, do you really think dc writers are gonna condone Gladiator beaten Superman!? I mean really, if you do think they will then I got a bridge I'd like to sell you.....Gladiator was made to mock superman's cheesy hero-like qualities and if dc were to let this mockery defeat their main attraction then you shouldn't even post on this board because you're too much of a fanboy to comprehend my point...
You know NOTHING OF VERSUS THREAD. What the hell does politics have anything to do with it? You think DC would let Superman lose to Loki, Apocalypse, Magneto, Black Bolt, etc.? They wouldn't, but does that mean Supes gets an automatic win in a thread fight? Listen to Cipher, you obviously know nothing of versus threads. This isn't a freaken popularity contest. 🙄 Please don't bring that in as evidence to Superman winning. And you act as if circumstances don't play a role in an argument for or against, it does. Stop acting as if everything was black and white. Sue beat Gladiator when his confidence dropped after Reed's trickery - Sue beat him because Reed exploited a weakness. If Superman got his ass kicked by Batman due to the fact that Bat's had Kryptonite, that's not evidence that Batman can take on Superman one on one.
And on another note, Superman almost never loose IS AS YOU SAID "DC established the persona that Superman is the ultimate superhero to all comic fans alike." That's why Superman almost never loose in a fight with anyone in the DC universe. Hell, Superman nowadays is kicking the living shit out of Darkseid. Darkseid the Lord of Apokolips, Apokolips the home of half the New Gods population, the other half living in New Genesis. Darkseid is Highfather's equal, and Orion's father. But instead of Orion finally defeating Darkseid as it should be or Highfather doing, DC allowed Superman to beat Darkseid like twice. Superman almost never lose and that's right. It was a top god that was beaten twice by Superman - which Superman shouldn't have been able to do. What next, he beats up Highfather as well? Not only that, Superman's jobber aura won out over Kirby's Darkseid; that's how much DC kisses Superman's ass. So much for the Third World, so much for top gods meaning anything.
As for it could go either way, I was responding to Scarlet Spiders comment that Majestic comes in and beats them both. Go back and read that again.
Gladiator would take the majority over Superman IMO, not either way.
100% of these vs threads are based on popularity alone, you like this character you debate him defeating that character..its that simple..you say Gladiator would beat superman? where's your backup, its easy to post pics of gladiator looking all godly but the same can be done for superman....
My back-up was the fact that superman battled a man whom Gladiator got his ASS kicked by and that is the hulk...Like I said Superman and hulk=draw, gladiator/Hulk=hulk....face it...it happened its official..
You accuse me of using politics in a thread? Didn't you post this argument over at the Hulk vs Gladiator thread.....
Beyonder:
C'mon Wynndar, this fight was rigged so that Hulk would win.
1] Didn't this story happen AFTER the Marvel vs. DC crossover? Where Superman beat Hulk's ass? Marvel basically used Gladiator (Superman clone) to save face for Hulk in this fight you posted.
If that quote didn't have politics written all over it than i don't know what does...ya little hypocrit...How can you accuse me of using politics when you use them yourself when a comic seemingly doesn't go your way...Some people will say anything to save face from looking stupid or being proved wrong in a debate...
oh but there's more:
Beyonder:
The fight was rigged. Hulk pulled out of his ass a weakness Gladiator never had. Glad's was portrayed as an idiot.
more politics for dat ass.....
In the end, THEY both have the same exact abilities down to a tee, so what pushes Gladiator over the edge, what makes Gladiator stand out above Superman IN YOUR EYES?And don't name the typical, gladiator lifted a heavier object, or beat a stronger opponent whom Superman never met because we don't know what would happen in that case...so besides that what gives Gladiator the edge in your eyes???
I'll give you reasons that make my opinion tilt towards superman:
1.Superman tied with the hulk in an "official" battle, Gladiator loss(badly)
2.Superman's win/loss record far exceeds that of gladiator
3.Superman beat Thor into the ground right before the avengers teamed up and ganged up on Superman, Masterson Thor beat Gladiator.
4.Superman's results to using superior logic to defeat foes stronger than himself, Gladiator slugs it out and gets beaten(badly) by foes that exceed him in power...
5.Superman's name is too high on the markee to be beaten by Gladiator,I'm sorry for how political that sounds but it's the damn truth, if this confrontation were to happen tell me why in the hell would DC writers make their franchise player lose in ANY type of battle with one of Marvel's background players???
Now list your reasons.....and don't say because Glad beat this person or moved this mountain, come with some actual facts, not just opinionated assumptions...
Sarkastic, I realize that you probably directed your comments towards Beyonder. However, I would appreciate if you will pardon my interruption. It is incorrect to say that 100% of these threads are based on popularity and that people always debate characters, that they like, defeating other characters. I have never used the preference that I have towards certain characters to influence my debating on who should win in a fair match up. I have noticed a few other individuals seem to remain unbiased. I do not know the percentage of people that base their decisions on popularity. I do know it is not 100% and there would be no point for the vs. threads if they were just a popularity vote. Also, Beyonder's point is that certain outcomes in the past occurred due to comic politics. Unlike you, Beyonder is not using the prediction of comic politics in a vs. thread fight as a reason for his choice of a logical victor. Despite that the outcome was based on Marvel's attempt to save face, you are correct to say that Hulk beating Gladiator was official. It did happen. Hulk beat Gladiator. Unfortunately, Wolverine with no adamantium beat Lobo. That match happened. It was official. Wolverine beat him fair and square. However, that match was decided on fan votes and makes no friggen sense. Most people wouldn't use Wolverine's victory over Lobo as evidence that Wolverine is a match for Superman because they would be laughed at. This is the reason why it is prudent to use a character's abilities that he displays more times than not. You have listed reasons why your opinion tilts towards Superman. I will list my comments towards the corresponding numbers.
1. I am going to help you out since you did not know. Superman has already beaten the Hulk. You can leave the tie out of this. Gladiator's loss was far from bad considering Hulk used radiation. How well would Superman fare if Hulk or Gladiator used kryptonite.
2. Like you know either of their exact win %.
3. Masterson Thor needed help to beat Gladiator. If Gladiator had a superpowerd ally to help, most people would not debate that Gladiator can defeat Superman.
4. I am going to let you slide with this comment, considering that you only listed your personal opinion. I argued your other comments because they consisted of incorrect facts.
5. You acted like the accusations of you using comic politics were so unfounded. But, as soon as we turn our backs you blatantly go right to using comic politics to determine your victor.
Finally, your last little comment was backwards. Stating a character's past accolades are the only time when the facts come into play. No matter who you are arguing for, listing possible scenarios and how you think the battle will play out is when the opinions come into play.
MatchesMalone, thanks for clearing things up. You get your points across better than I can mine.
SarKastic_OJ: My argument about Hulk beating Gladiator being politics because Superman beat Hulk in a fan determined fight. I even argued this in that entire thread. Marvel used Gladiator to show that Hulk could beat a Superman level. Additionally, how did Hulk knew Gladiator was weak to certain kinds of radiation? Tell me that. Hulk stated that before he dragged and dumped Kallark into the radiation. It's like if Doomsday all of a sudden go, "so your weak against Kryptonites eh, Superman?" Furtermore, Gladiator was written to fight like an idiot in that issue, and most of his other showings indicate superb fighting skills and tactics.
Unlike MatchesMalone, cross-overs IMO shouldn't hold much weight in a argument. Most cross-over shows inconsistency of characters. In Marvel vs. DC, Wolverine beat Lobo and CUT Thanos WITH his BONE CLAWS. Heck, he was assisting Lobo in fighting Thanos, giving Thanos a harder time than Lobo did. If you wanna throw around Superman beat Hulk etc...
Well, Gladiator>Wolverine>Lobo=<Superman.
Or Bone claw > Odin's strongest blast or Tyrant's strongest blast 🙄
Or Aquaman + Whale > Namor
Why would Gladiator win? Thor never beat Gladiator. Show me an instance where he did without help? Gladiator walked all over Wonder Man, fought with Silver Surfer to a stalemate, even when his speed was amped by Reed's tech (100X lightspeed) Thor was only moving at Gladiator's normal speed, only lost to a Thor with assistance (nearly killing Thor in one of their fights, only saved when Thorgirl interferred), shattered a planed in three blows, knocked the Thing through about five cars with one blow, broke through Sue's force field, extended Reed's body to it's utmost elasticity, beat down Human Torch easily, beat up Quasar, fought Ego fearlessly, etc.
MatchesMalone: LOL....I did know Superman beat hulk.....IN THE CROSSOVER AMALGAM...which I totally ignored since people on the forum deemed this confrontation "unofficial". Post what you know not what you assume...I'm not leaving the tie out of this because it is the seemingly "official" battle between the two, no fan-voting whatsoever.
Secondly, I do "know" for a fact that Superman has won "more" battles and lost "less" battles than Gladiator..that I "guarantee" you..
By bringing up his defeat by Masterson Thor just shows how little the Marvel world cares little for Gladiator as even though he was jumped he was "defeated", beaten by twice as many enemies as superman...
Yeah those accusations of me using politics were unfounded and I smothered him with the fact that he used them in the Glad vs Hulk post.
You say Beyonder was complaining about past comic politics am I right?.....So that is saying that they exist, although they are biased as hell THEY-DO-EXIST, and some writers used politics in determining the winner or certain battles, so what would stop them from using comic politics in the Superman/Glad battle? Why was using comic polictics "so unruly" in this debate when you know that if this battle were to happen then dc wouldn't let their flagship character lose to this unpopular soldier...Dude, you can post anything you want in a Vs forum if it fits the bill, if it convinces me that this character will win then I can say anything in my favor, two people took my posts into consideration which means its not "against the rules"..What, is Not posting about comic politics an "unwritten law" in Vs forums??
I did use politics openly and plainly..so what? You are indeed confused, you think I "became enraged " because they accused me of using politics when i only showed Beyonder than although I did use politics in my posts to prove a point he did the same thing and appeared as a hypocrit for doing it, you're making stupid assumptions..lol..I was ok with using comic politics from the start I just rubbed the comic politics that Beyonder declared I was using back in his face just because he said I was wrong for using them..which i wasn't..once again don't "jump in" an argument in attempts to save someone else you just make his stupidity
contagious...
Any my last comment was to save this argument from any notorious: "Gladiator beat Silver Sufer, he can beat Superman too" or "Gladiator lifted a mountain, hes STRONGER THAN SUPERMAN" Because superman never fought those foes or attempted at these objects, I literally smothered him with die hard facts....
lol...fought Ego fearlessly....so what....I can fight a army fearlessly...doesn't mean I'm gonna win does it? beat up Quasar.... oooohhh someone whom superman never met in his entire life but fought enemies just as strong...knocked "The Thing" through five cars...whoooaaaa cool...-_-.....you're just listing the basic fan things, i can sit back and say Superman spinned earth around, moved the moon, knocked Lobo through five cars...that doesn't mean he can beat the Apocalypse or Onslaught now does it...Just because Glad did those things doesn't mean Superman can't do it too...
Rogue shattered 1000 windows by punching juggernaut in the face, so what?! that doesn't mean she can beat Superman now does it??? Until you prove he did something Superman cannot do all your points sound like a 14yr olds ode to his favorite caped hero...
I can name Superman's high points all day, as a matter of fact I can fill up this entire forum with "Enemies" superman defeated or "Powerful deeds" he demostrated, but this is Glad vs Superman so I reduced this to naming an opponent whom they both fought, The HULK!! Glad lost Superman tied...need I say more???
You say Glad is stronger than Wolvie yet wolvie beat lobo and lobo beat superman???LOL, WHY are you using the amalgam "unofficial" comics as your ammunition?? You're only looking more and more stupid...Like I said in the beginning of this post, I ignored "anything" from the amalgam because they were deemed "unofficial" here yet you use them to prove an invalid point....
What the hell is Beyonder's idiocy contagious...LOL...you guys keep using the "unofficial' amalgams in your post...
Gladiator (Kallark)
Superhuman strenght Class 100
Invulnerability and great resistance to injuries
Superhuman speed, reflexes, reaction time.
Superhuman stamina, durability.
Flight ability that can reach warp speeds
Heat vision projection over Superman level.
Superman (Kal' El, Clark Kent)
Superhuman strenght Class 100
Invulnerability and great resistance to injuries
Superhuman speed, reflexes, reaction time.
Superhuman stamina, durability.
Flight ability under that of lightspeeds, probably max 10% of lightspeed
Heat vision projection 11,000 degrees F at max
Assuming that Kallark wouldn't underrate a guy that shows his same powers, he would start to fight at superspeed and full force if he have to defend Shiar Empire.Obviously Supes is totally a good guy, the boy scout like Lobo says, but not stupid.Seeing that it's become a match for his life he would start to use his host of superpowers too, at this point Kallark only advantage is his superior heat vision, but nothing else.
After a fight of hours, i think it would be a draw, or a Supes victory after a run for his money.
I like Gladiator more of him, but Supes his probably smarter, also Supes has fought more fights that were a match for his life, like that with Doomsday, or with Lobo, Kallark fought Ego yes and that was a fight for his life, but he was able to stay and fight after being hit just cause his powers are psionic, it's his will that give him his powers.It's a form of physical abilities warping, we can say.But Supes has feel more pain that Kallark in his life, we can assume that in some way he would outsmart him or knockdown him, Kallark is smart too, he's a warrior and has experience and tactics, but he never fought something that his equal to him, totally, same powers.That would also weak his will, seeing he's not the only being with powers like that, and when his will is weakened, Kallark is defeated cause his powers starts to get to a low level of when he trust in his abilities and Supes would get the victory.