Marvel Universe Hierarchy

Started by Krissy Von Doom30 pages

It's a little deceiving using Galactus vs Mephisto, Galactus could absorb the energies of most realms as he's the third being of the Universal triumverate. As for Strange not bothering with Mephisto when he visits earth, that's because Mephisto's power isn't as great on Earth. Yes he's been tricked by Strange and Doom but that's not to say they beat him, he banished them, from what I remember.

I wouldn't call it Dormammu "conquering" the Mindless Ones' realm, if he really conquered it he would have been able to subjugate the Mindless Ones to his will. There's a difference to conquering something and just claiming it for yourself.

The Frost Giants, Surtur, etc DO pose a threat to Asgard but whenever they've threatened the realm, Odin has been able to put them in their place, not by containing them but by beating them in a fight. Should Dormammu actually fight the Mindless Ones, who would prevail?

The Mindless Ones WOULD make havok in Asgard or Olympus or wherever but that's not the point (Galactus, his heralds, the Kree, Tyrant, any substantially large invasion force can do do the same) - the point is because the Mindless Ones are natural inhabitants of the Dark Dimension and Dormammu is actually scared of them, it means he's not the master of that dimension.

Dormammu can add however many dimensions to his Dark Dimension, if he's not master of each individual realm, then how powerful is he?

Krissy Von Doom

It's a little deceiving using Galactus vs Mephisto, Galactus could absorb the energies of most realms as he's the third being of the Universal triumverate. As for Strange not bothering with Mephisto when he visits earth, that's because Mephisto's power isn't as great on Earth. Yes he's been tricked by Strange and Doom but that's not to say they beat him, he banished them, from what I remember.

How about when Silver Surfer or Warlock coming into his realm and beating him, answer me that.


I wouldn't call it Dormammu "conquering" the Mindless Ones' realm, if he really conquered it he would have been able to subjugate the Mindless Ones to his will. There's a difference to conquering something and just claiming it for yourself.

He annexed the dimension, but the Mindless Ones' powers don't come from the dimension. Just cause someone has conquered a realm, it doesn't mean he has complete control over those he conquered. He also contains them, rather then displacing them in another dimension, because he uses them and have used them in the past against enemies like Dr. Strange. And they're mindless creatures, you can't expect that they'll follow orders - magic needs to be used.


The Frost Giants, Surtur, etc DO pose a threat to Asgard but whenever they've threatened the realm, Odin has been able to put them in their place, not by containing them but by beating them in a fight. Should Dormammu actually fight the Mindless Ones, who would prevail?

By himself? Or with help from his sons and warriors? If Asgard for the sake of argument annexed Surtur's Muspelheim or Ymir's Niffleheim, you think Odin himself would not fear Surtur, Ymir, or the Frost Giants. Hell, he'd try either to kick them out or contain them in some way cause he wouldn't have control over any of them even though it's HIS realm.


The Mindless Ones WOULD make havok in Asgard or Olympus or wherever but that's not the point (Galactus, his heralds, the Kree, Tyrant, any substantially large invasion force can do do the same) - the point is because the Mindless Ones are natural inhabitants of the Dark Dimension and Dormammu is actually scared of them, it means he's not the master of that dimension.

They're not natural inhabitants. Though their realm is part of the Dark Dimension, that still holds nothing over the creatures. Again, Dormammu contained them in a sector of the Dark Dimensions; he could've removed them from the Dark Dimensions all together, but he uses them as soldiers (unwilling soldiers controlled through magic). And these creatures are an entire race, not just a few MONSTERS. He fears them because they are capable of wrecking the entire realm if he's not too careful.

Dormammu can add however many dimensions to his Dark Dimension, if he's not master of each individual realm, then how powerful is he?

He is the master of his realm. He may fear the Mindless Ones, but they're also his unwilling subjects. And you underestimate the Mindless Ones, we're taking about an entire race of creatures; each one capable of killing Hulk, Thor, Gladiator, or Beta Ray Bill in a fight. Again, if Mephisto or Odin had annexed them in their realm, they too would fear these inhabitants. How powerful? Dormammu's one the most power mystical beings ever. Neither Odin, Zeus, or Mephisto have that title. Even out of his realm, Dormammu is still powerful. Why else would Strange fear his presence on Earth?

Mephisto deals with souls. Who can defeat an individual who has complete mastery over the soul gem? And this same individual, without the soul gem no less, was chosen by Order and Chaos over Galactus to lead them into battle. Geez. The Surfer is irrelevant in this battle.

Actually, I'm not underestimating the Mindless Ones. These creatures would wreak havoc in any dimension, realm or planet. For argument's sake, lets say the Mindless Ones had to be destroyed, would Dormammu, together with any family or warriors he can muster, be able to defeat or destroy them (not just contain)? I wouldn't say that Odin is as concerned about Surtur as Dormammu is about the Mindless Ones. The only reason Odin worries about Surtur is because the flame sword wielded by Surtur is destined to destroy Asgard, that's it. He knows he'll be killed by Fenrir on Ragnarok so he's not much worried about being killed by anyone else.

Now, if Odin tried to conquer Muspell, would he succeed? Hard to say because Surtur plays a major role in Ragnarok. If I said Odin can just kill Surtur that'd be dumb because he's not destined to do so. For argument's sake, I will say Odin can succeed is conquering Muspell and defeating Surtur in battle, if he chose to. Because it's happened in comics? No. Because of Ragnarok. "The Doom of the Gods" (always mistranslated as "Twilight of the Gods"😉 has the Aesir battling the southern giants led by Surtur AND The gigantic Fenrir Wolf AND The Midgard Serpent AND Loki commanding the hordes of the dead AND the Naglfar battleship commanded by the giant Hymir. After that battle, some of the gods still survived. Now, let's take out the Midgard serpent, Fenrir, Loki's forces and Hymir's giants, leaving Surtur alone with his giants...how would that battle go? A bit one sided I'd say. And Ragnarok occurs on a neutral battlefield, not Asgard.

For the moment, I'll go with your argument and say that just because someone has conquered a realm doesn't mean he has complete control of the inhabitants. But, say the conquered population had to be destroyed, would you say the conqueror SHOULD have the power or forces to do so? Now does Dormammu have this power against the Mindless Ones?

didn´t the surfer beat mephisto

YES! But:

Krissy Von Doom Mephisto deals with souls. Who can defeat an individual who has complete mastery over the soul gem? And this same individual, without the soul gem no less, was chosen by Order and Chaos over Galactus to lead them into battle. Geez. The Surfer is irrelevant in this battle.

Not sure why Warlock is relevant but Surfer is not.

Black Panther also conjured Mephisto forth and trapped his sorry butt. Strange also conjured him binded and blindfolded just so that Dare Devil and Strange can question him.

As for Krissy, so cause he might not have the power to destroy them, that means Mephisto is stronger then him? I don't think he's ever tried but then again never has anyone or even Strange destroyed a Mindless One.

I meant Warlock with the soul gem is a match for Mephisto, there's no point in throwing Surfer into the mix to help Warlock because Warlock alone can deal with Mephisto.

As I already mentioned, Mephisto is radically depowered when he's summoned to Earth hence when he can be bound by a number of magical means.

As for Dr Strange or Mephisto being able to destroy a Mindless One, you've completely missed my point. Dormammu SHOULD be able to destroy a Mindless One because you claim he's the master of their dimension. Would a demon from Mephisto's hell be able to overpower the Lord of Lies? No, Mephisto is master of that dimension because he controls everything in hell. Does that mean he can beat any invading force? No. A suffifiently powerful invasion force or individual power can still beat Mephisto in hell, but a natural inhabitant of hell can't beat Mephisto. However, can a natural denizen of the Dark Dimension (ie. the Mindless Ones) beat Dormammu? From the way he fears them, I'd say yes.

Wasn't refering to Warlock & SS, only SS. He kicked Mephisto's ass.

He SHOULD? You mean like how Mephisto was only able to defeat Zarathos and imprison him, instead of killing him? You really think Mephisto would be able to kill the Mindless Ones if they were annexed into his dimension? 🙄

Again the point is Odin can defeat any natural inhabitant of Asgard, Zeus similarly in Olympus, Mephisto in Hell...

It's not about cross dimensional battles...can Zeus beat Surtur? can Zarathos beat Mentor? can Mephisto beat a Mindless One? It's can Dormammu beat a natural inhabitant of a dimension he's supposed to be the master of?

Mephisto's smart enough or has no purpose in annexing a dimension filled with the Mindless Ones.

Of course, I could mention the way Firelord put the beatdown on Dormammu in Guardians of the Galaxy....."Aaargh!! Stellar Fire!!!" But that's not the point here.

So you're basically saying that IF the Mindless Ones were part of Mephisto or Odin's realm, they'd be able to destroy these creatures? Yeah riiiight, that'll be when a baboon's writting the story will that ever happen. Neither Mephisto or Odin's going to destroy any of these creatures.

As for Firelord beating Dormammu, what are you refering to exactly? Firelord isn't even in Dormammu's league; him beating Dormammu is either do to plot device or an error on the writters part.

No matter how you put it, Mephisto is still weaker than Dormammu. Silver Surfer beat his ass.

Odin, Zeus, Mephisto or whoever has no purpose in trying to destroy the Mindless Ones because they're not living in and are not an immediate threat to their respective realms. However, they are living in the Dark Dimension, where Dormammu is supposed to be the master yet he fears them and cannot destroy them. Now, if any of the skyfathers annexed, as you put it, the Mindless Ones dimension into their own I've no doubt that they'd have an extremely difficult time in dealing with these living destroyer armors but that's a moot point because they wouldn't even try to conquer a place with near unbeatable inhabitants. Dormammu may have claimed that dimensions for his own but he is not the master of it.

Guardians of the Galaxy. No matter the reason, Firelord burning Dormammu is in print which makes it a legitimate point. Else I could just similarly claim that Surfer beating Mephisto is an error on the writer's part.

The original list I poster isn't a "Power" list, it's a ranking on how important each being is hence all the Skyfathers are on the same level even though each individual's power vary. Eternity/Infinity/Death/Oblivion are on the same level because each is as important as the other though their personal power may vary somewhat. Same reason for the heralds being on the same level. Strictly on a power level, Odin and Zeus would overpower Mephisto yet I would qualify the devil on equal importance as the skyfathers because he's sat on the council of skyfathers representing the dark gods and spoke as an equal.

Living tribunal is a complete waste of power cuz he doesn't care if thanos destroyes half tha universe because "change is good!".

Thanos sucks for wuts mentioned above.

i think tha higher u get on tha hierarchy, tha dumber u get.

welll i duno wat u dudes have been postin here fer the last 7 pages but here is my list of ther hierchy
1. the one above all
2. true beyonders
3. infinte being
4. living tribunal
5. the infinites/entropy{cant figure out who}
6. posessor of the heart of the universe
7. wielder of the infinite gauntlet
8. eternity/death/epiphany/abraxas{ithink thats his name}
9. master order and lord chaos

ok im not sure about the wrest but ill try my best

pheonix force{since its the embodiement of all life unborn}
a great cosmic cube{e.g. fake beyonder, shaper of world}
super ego
galactus at full power/ego/kubic
thanos at full power/tyrant
celestials
franklin richard at full power/nate grey at full power
onslaught
mephisto, in his realm

ok i really dont know where to put the elders of the universe in this list as a whole

alright enough of this, neway i still maintain that the true forces that control the marvel universe are desire, purpose and fate{note that none of them have been even abstractly described in marvel ever}. im not gonna explain y this is cause ive done that too many times and am sick n tired of answering mail n tryin to explain,. atleast i think that my higher portion of the most powerful biengs is right.

thats completely wrong

1. The Heart Of The Universe
2. Living Tribunal
3. Infinity Gauntlet
4. Death
5. The Infinites
6. Eternity/Infinity/Galactus (full power)
7. Oblivion
8. The Celestials
9. Franklin Richards (full power)
10. Master Order/Lord Chaos
11. Chronos
12. X-Man (full power)/Onslaught (full power)
13. Love/Hate
14. Eon
15. Epoch
16. Chton
17. Stranger/In-Betweener/Oshtur/Agamotto/Hoggoth/Galactus (normal power)/Dark Phoenix
18. Ego the Living Planet
19. Dark Gods/Elder Gods
20. Eternals
21. Korvak
22. Shaper of Worlds
23. Beyonder
24. Phoenix Force
25. Hyperstorm

^^ that one is more accurate

thats completely wrong

1. TOAA
2. The Heart Of The Universe/Pre-Reconned Beyonder
3. Living Tribunal
4. The Infinity Gauntlet
5. Death/Eternity/Infinity/Full Potential Galactus (as Third Essential Of Universe)
6. Oblivion
7. Celestials/Franklin Richards (full potential)
8. Master Order/Lord Chaos
9. Chronos
10. Love/Hate
11. Galactus (normal)/Stranger/Eon/Hoggoth/Oshtur/Agamotto/In-Betweener
12. Molecule Man
13. Shaper of Worlds/Beyonder/Kubik
14. Phoenix Force
15. Shuma Gorath/Dormammu
16. Demogorge The God Eater (Atum the Sun after consuming elder god)
17. Chthon/Set/Atum (the Sun God)/Demiurge/Gaea
18. Tyrant
19. Cyttarok/Surtur/Ymir/Odin/Zeus/Zuras/All Skyfathers/Destroyer Armor/Shaman X-Man
20. Mephisto
21. King Thor/Thanos
22. Captain Universe/Mangog/Kurse
23. Silver Surfer/Morg/Thor/Gladiator/X-Man (normal)/Genis-Vell/Loki/Beta Ray Bill/Terrax/Black Heart/Ronan The Executioner
24. Super Skrull/Annahilus/Blaastar/Black Bolt/Fire Lord/Enchantress
25. Magneto/Apocalypse/Exodus/Holocaust/Ultron/Nimrod/Mandarin
26. Juggernaut/Hulk
27. Dr.Doom/Iron Man/Wonder Man/Namor/Thing

^^ [this] one is more accurate 😆

Nate Grey should be higher should he not? and how come in "nate vs thor", thor was said to be tha winner? when in all 3 of your lists, hes higher? i know this is "off topic" but man one would hope tha truth was spoken from more than a fan.

What about Thor as he is at the moment in Thor😄issassembled? He should be higher than in the above list

dudes u r so wrong about ur power listings, oh so wrong, i did write all the reasons y my upper list was a lot better than yours but i got disconnected and couldnt get the message through and since it was around three pages of work, im feelin pissed and will write later.

Sorry but i think Beyonders is the better of the Three lists.

Thanks Magee. 😉