Regarding the True Beyonders, it's hard to take them into account, unlike everyone else who have made an appearance and demonstrated their powers. It's really hard to gauge where they're at if it's just hearsay. As for TOAA's case, LT acknowledge his power & so did every other major cosmic beings. Also, "The End" confirmed TOAA's power since Thanos with THOTU did beat everyone including LT.
Originally posted by Krissy Von Doom(Galactus, his heralds, the Kree, Tyrant, any substantially large invasion force can do do the same)
i only wanted to comment on this part out of the entire post. asgard was pulped by 2 beings....... Mangog and thanos. mangog did all the work (including thor) while thanos hypnotized odin. rather odd if you ask me, but still cool to see it.
well, precrisis superman actually existed. he wasnt retconned out of never doing what he did.
beyonder is different. his old feats arent actually feats anymore, they were mere illusions. he is nowhere near as powerful as he once was. just like when he humbled the entire race of celestials on thier home world. obviously he isnt that powerful, cause his power is "as nothing" to a single celestial.
so i say again, stop mentioning pre retconned beyonder, he doesnt exist.
neway, if u really pay attention, ull se that my list is a lot better that the other 2 list {ofcourse i dont have nething against the guys who made those lists but im right cause ive done way too much research on this, but i do admit that i shudv given the heart of the universe a higher place than LT}
JuggernautFanwell, precrisis superman actually existed. he wasnt retconned out of never doing what he did.
beyonder is different. his old feats arent actually feats anymore, they were mere illusions. he is nowhere near as powerful as he once was. just like when he humbled the entire race of celestials on thier home world. obviously he isnt that powerful, cause his power is "as nothing" to a single celestial.
so i say again, stop mentioning pre retconned beyonder, he doesnt exist.
Of course he doesn't exist anymore, but it's not like I'm going to exclude him. Thus it's "Pre-reconned" Beyonder that I attribute those high feats to. I'm not claiming Beyonder was that powerful - I'm claiming Pre-reconned Beyonder was that powerful. If you don't like it, tough luck! He was the closest thing to GOD, and an actual being not just an artifact to obtain and gain omnipotence. There was a being that powerful - "Pre-Reconned Beyonder." And he actually did stuff and toyed with heroes and villains, cosmic deity alike, unlike the Presence or TOAA.
Again, too bad if you don't like it. He appeared in two Marvel series and effected almost every hero and villains stories. As for Pre-crisis Superman, what the hell do you think Crisis was? They reconned everything because everyone was too damn powerful, like Marvel did to the Beyonder for the same reason.
Originally posted by Beyonder
Of course he doesn't exist anymore, but it's not like I'm going to exclude him.
why would you include him..... he doesnt exist, and never did. that is the purpose of retconns...... its like dr doom being defeated, then later its revealed its a "doom bot". same thing.
Originally posted by Beyonder
Thus it's "Pre-reconned" Beyonder that I attribute those high feats to.
its the same beyonder...... just his old "feats" were merely illusions. he isnt as powerful as he was once -believed- to be. in actuallity he isnt anywhere near the top.
Originally posted by Beyonder
I'm not claiming Beyonder was that powerful - I'm claiming Pre-reconned Beyonder was that powerful.
they are the same damn entity. i dont see why you are making them seem like 2 separate one. thus he shouldnt be mentioned anymore.
Originally posted by Beyonder
If you don't like it, tough luck!
i dont care, i'm just telling you facts.
Originally posted by Beyonder
He was the closest thing to GOD, and an actual being not just an artifact to obtain and gain omnipotence.
he only made people -think- he was the closest thing to a god. thus he shouldnt be mentioned anymore. the infinity gauntlet was much much more powerful than beyonder.
Originally posted by Beyonder
There was a being that powerful - "Pre-Reconned Beyonder." And he actually did stuff and toyed with heroes and villains, cosmic deity alike, unlike the Presence or TOAA.
he isnt that powerful........ deal with it. pre-retconned beyonder is the same beyonder that everybody else places down on the list. exactly where he belongs....... way down the list.
Originally posted by Beyonder
Again, too bad if you don't like it. He appeared in two Marvel series and effected almost every hero and villains stories.
but that doesnt matter. he still wasnt as powerful as "pre-retconned" seemed. the beyonder before and after the fact is still the same beyonder.
Originally posted by Beyonder
As for Pre-crisis Superman, what the hell do you think Crisis was? They reconned everything because everyone was too damn powerful, like Marvel did to the Beyonder for the same reason.
i dont know much about DC, but what exactly happened?? as far as i'm aware they just scaled down his power. they didnt say his old feats didnt happen what-so-ever. but the beyonder, isnt that powerful. everything he did, didnt really happen. so he should stop being put on the list twice. its like putting doom on the list twice....... refering to a doombot. it just shouldnt be done.
but that doesnt matter. he still wasnt as powerful as "pre-retconned" seemed. the beyonder before and after the fact is still the same beyonder.
The "Recon" was to make everything the Beyonder did out to be an illusion. All of Marvel was effected by the Beyonder in SW I and II. I'm not saying the Beyonder is all that powerful. I'm saying "Pre-reconned"...Beyonder was all powerful. Hence, "Pre-reconned" is always added. There's a difference. And adding him to the list is 'cause of my choosing. Marvel reconned him for the same reason DC reconned their entire universe. IMO it's better than including the True Beyonders. True Beyonders = Pre-reconned Beyonder but unseen and unknown like TOAA. Marvel doesn't like GOD-like figures running around.
And it was shit what Marvel did, every fan knows it. It's there right, but to recon everything the Beyonder was and make him out to be toyed by the cosmic deities is just a waste of an idea. Unlike everyone who was all powerful and didn't do shit, "Pre-reconned" Beyonder was a being beyond the boundaries of the Multiverse. And he did things out of curiousity, experimented with his subjects. He was the closest thing to a GOD and wasn't BORING AT IT even though he had complete omnipotence.
Originally posted by Beyonder
[b]
The "Recon" was to make everything the Beyonder did out to be an illusion.
exactly. what dont you get about this. you are still making them 2 separate beings.
Originally posted by Beyonder
[b]
All of Marvel was effected by the Beyonder in SW I and II.
not all of marvel. beyonder might be able to toy with earth heroes and make them think he was "god" but he wasnt all that powerful and couldnt affect the top beings in the universe.
Originally posted by Beyonder
[b]
I'm not saying the Beyonder is all that powerful. I'm saying "Pre-reconned"...Beyonder was all powerful.
this is where you need to pay REALLY REALLY CLOSE ATTENTION. this is where you are making the mistake. pre-retconned beyonder, and beyonder are the EXACT same entity. one isnt more powerful than the other one. but you are still thinking that he is. he only made the heroes -think- he was that powerful. that is why he shouldnt be put on the list twice. now if old beyonder did all those things, then somehow later was depowered without having his old feats retconned out of existence, then maybe he could be put on the list twice. like king thor. but since they are exactly the same level of power, why put them on twice??? its like counting like this. beyonder will be #2.
1....2.....3......4......5......6........2.......7.......8.....9.......10
now obviously 2 shouldnt be on the list twice. its the same 2, but you are placing them on the scale when they are exactly the same power. 2 still has a value of 2, but yet its placed higher on the top. now why on earth would you do that???
Originally posted by Beyonder
[b]
Hence, "Pre-reconned" is always added.
but he shouldnt be because "pre retconned" is exactly the same as the later version
Originally posted by Beyonder
[b]
There's a difference.
no there is not a difference. do you even know what retconned means?? do you know what its purpose is??? obviously not or you wouldnt be discussing this.
Originally posted by Beyonder
[b]
And adding him to the list is 'cause of my choosing. Marvel reconned him for the same reason DC reconned their entire universe. IMO it's better than including the True Beyonders. True Beyonders = Pre-reconned Beyonder but unseen and unknown like TOAA. Marvel doesn't like GOD-like figures running around.
DC shouldnt be brought up in a marvel discussion........ PERIOD. it is not the same. superman before and superman after, are 2 different levels of power. but beyonder, is exactly the same. he only -seemed- more powerful. you need to realize that
where did you get "true beyonders" from cause i'd like to read more about that. until then i cant comment on "true" beyonders cause i've never seen any other than the 1 beyonder. so i cant comment on how powerful they are.
...acknowledge him however you want. When talking about "Pre-reconned Beyonder," I'm using his feats before being reconned. Of course their the same person, but you're talking into account of the recon. I'm making a seperation of before Marvel decided to recon when I talk about both. If you don't like it, tough luck.
Regarding it effecting only heroes and villain and not the top marvel beings...what do you think Galactus is?
Originally posted by Beyonder
...acknowledge him however you want. When talking about "Pre-reconned Beyonder," I'm using his feats before being reconned. Of course their the same person, but you're talking into account of the recon. I'm making a seperation of before Marvel decided to recon when I talk about both. If you don't like it, tough luck.
i acknowledge him how he's supposed to be acknowledged..... as 1 entity. 1 that isnt as powerful as he originally presented himself to be. i still dont think you know what a retcon is. the separation isnt there. marvel is just saying his powers are........ illusions. and you are still thinking those illusions are what he actually did. it sounds to me like the beyonder has you in his illusional grip because you are refusing the reality of things here. beyonder is on the list once. as it should be.
Originally posted by Beyonder
Regarding it effecting only heroes and villain and not the top marvel beings...what do you think Galactus is?
it was a friggin illusion. galactus is a powerhouse. he is somewhere around celestial level, probably just below. you are still thinking that beyonder did all those things. just like humbleing the celestial race. this is false. 1 celestial is far superior to beyonder. yet he humbled them. follow me real close here. ILLUSION.
ok, im gonna make this really simple, the preretconned beyonder was not a true beyonder and he should not be confused with true beyonders. he was a fake illusion creater, cosmic cube {NOW LISTEN CAREFULLY}, but infact , the true beyonders are a race of nearly omnipotent beings who are only one step lower that TOAA, they are not a single being but a whole race but are so alien for human minds to understand or graspe that, they have never really shown a public face and remain in the TRUE BEYOND REALM{from where the energy from illusion casting cosmic cubes comes from}, they are above the heart of the universe, but not above TOAA, and they could REALLY do all the things that fake the beyonder pretended to do {the illusions he made}, they have played a huge role in the events of the universe indirectly from the beginning of time, the result of which was the formation of life, celestials, and other intelligences of the universe. So {as beyonder[the guy who wrote the list said] said},they are vey near the top,
{and stop referring to preretconned beyonder and refer to true beyonders}