George W Bush

Originally posted by Tptmanno1
Accually you couldn't be more wrong.
Woodrow wilson could have prevented WWII but noone listened to him. He created the League of Nations but Congress prevented him from joining it, saying that it was too Euro-centric. He also created the Wilson 10 step plan (or somthing like that) that would have fixed europes problems and prevented WW2, but France and England said no and forced Germany into signing the "War Guilt Clause", placing 100% of the blame and cost of the War on germany (WW2 was started equaly by all partys, becasue of the elaborate system of alliances, its quite interesting, read up on it sometime. 🙂 )

Very correct!! Yey an american with some good knowledge of Europien history!

Anyway, it was actually woodrow Willson's 14 points. I knew them all, but it was a while back since i did history so i cannot remember them all 😮

But yeah, England and France forced Germany to sign the War Guild Clause, which greatly contributed to WWII. Although Stresmann had brought German economy at some acceptable level later on, since his death in '29, the economy went down the hill, and all Germany needed then is someone who will remind them of how terrible they were treated at the WWI and give them some kind of hope, and whalah, along came Hitler.

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On the Bush note....you know, i cannot believe some of you cant see whats happening here.

Your governemt is discusting! Its like they were happy when 9/11 happened, and they thought ''oh wow, well now we have an excuse to do whatever we like! WE can bomb any country we like, invade anyone we like, and what more, we can take away freedom of the people of our contry!''

They are playing on your fear! They are using the 9/11 to control you and manipulate you, and some people in America are letting him do so!

Anyone who says 'England and France said no and forced Germany into signing the war guilt clause" I would NOT say has a good grasp of European history.

Read more carefully.

Please enlighten us.

Well, the implications that need correcting and errors are several.

First of all, it assumes that if Wilson had gotten his way on everything, then there would never have been any WWII. This is incredibly questionable and I cannot see a shred of evidence for that; all it would have done is made Hitler think of another reason to dislike France.

Secondly, it assumes Wilson's 14 point plan was not junked. Well, let's have a look at its important points:

"Impartial adjustment of colonial claims: the settlement of colonial problems with reference to the interests of colonial peoples (point five); "

Done

Germany's surrender of her past conquests:

Evacuation by the Germans of all Russian territory (point six).

Evacuation by the Germans of all Belgian territory (point seven).

Evacuation by the Germans of Alsace-Lorraine (the French territory) (point eight).

All done

The dissolution of the Austro-Hungarian Empire and Turkish Empire and the granting of independence to all the oppressed nationalities:

Italian frontier to extend northward to recover some land from Austria-Hungary (point nine).

Autonomous development for the people of Austria-Hungary (point ten).

Rumania, Serbia and Montenegro to be independent (point eleven).

Peoples under Turkish rule to be autonomous (point twelve).

An independent Poland (point thirteen).

All done

As was, of course the League of Nations... except the US rejected it so oit would never work.

However, it so happens that these points were part of the CAUSE of the war. It was the US, not France, who broke up indigenous German people and threw them into a melting pot of completely unstable new Republics. Hitler's very first aggressiuve moves- against Austria, then Czechoslovakia, and then Poland- were to remove THOSE changes, NOT to get revenge againt reparations.

Next, ti assumes that an evil Britain and France rejected the American suggestion and inserted their own War guilt clause. Not withstanding that, as I just explained, they didn't reject what the Americans said, the War Guilt clause Was signed by Wilson as well. It was a joint effort created by negotiation, with Britain (with Lloyd George himself leading a coalition government of many views) sitting between the 'Jesus Christ' of Wilson and the 'Napoleon' of Clemanceau- and it was France, NOT Britain (who needed Germany as a trading partner) who wanted Germany crippled by reparations.

The US then completely abandoned the mess it helped create in Europe and believed they could ignore it forever, all the way until Pearl Harbour. Neat. The UK tried to back out of the War Guilt clause as early as possible, and negotiated repudiation of a lot of Versailles with Germany.

But the French can fairly claim that if Versailles had been enforced, the Second World War would never have happened- that IS certain. Germany would not have had the power. They got the power precisely because people were too soft on them in the inter-war years. When they got the power, it is very clear who they held responsible for the repayments- France, and France alone.

So, to summarise... Britain and France didn't say no, the War Guilt clause was supported by everyone, and the originator of the Germany-crippling idea was France- and believe me, they didn't get 10% of what they wanted,

Originally posted by Tptmanno1
Yea, but we killed off 90 percent of the American Indians, Brutaly conquered our way from coast to coast under the guise, "manifest destiniy" all the way up to the secret cambodean carpet bombings. adn the nicaraguen revolts. We did some pretty F'ed up stuff in the cold war

our disease did 😖 5 years after the Spanish arrived 2/3 of the Indians died of diseases... our basic death march from the Lousiana Territory to The West coast was horrible yes 🙁

Originally posted by Tex
Oooooo, I just love your Macaulay Culkin Party Monster avi an siggy BK! 🤺

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Very correct!! Yey an american with some good knowledge of Europien history!

Anyway, it was actually woodrow Willson's 14 points. I knew them all, but it was a while back since i did history so i cannot remember them all 😮

But yeah, England and France forced Germany to sign the War Guild Clause, which greatly contributed to WWII. Although Stresmann had brought German economy at some acceptable level later on, since his death in '29, the economy went down the hill, and all Germany needed then is someone who will remind them of how terrible they were treated at the WWI and give them some kind of hope, and whalah, along came Hitler.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On the Bush note....you know, i cannot believe some of you cant see whats happening here.

Your governemt is discusting! Its like they were happy when 9/11 happened, and they thought ''oh wow, well now we have an excuse to do whatever we like! WE can bomb any country we like, invade anyone we like, and what more, we can take away freedom of the people of our contry!''

They are playing on your fear! They are using the 9/11 to control you and manipulate you, and some people in America are letting him do so!

So everyone kinda forgets about me huh cry 😂 and yes it was 14 points 😂 i forgot and got it mixed up with the fact that 10 of the fourteen failed 😛

If we could invade any country we like there would have been several invasions.... everyone forgets that the reason we went into iraq originally was that UN sanctions had been breached by Saddam when his development of a new long range missle was being purchased from France and the UN inspectors were being kicked out again... and unlike the Clinton administration the post-9/11 world would not be able to tolerate breaching another 11 sanction mandates.... the mandates said follow them or you will be delt with... and he didn't listen and he was delt with... i don't see where we were off the wall in invading... 😬

Originally posted by Tex
He had a low C average and [b]all of "his" companies failed miserably. 🤪

THE MAN WAVED AT STEVIE WONDER FOR CHRISTS SAKE! dunce

HE'S AN IDIOT!

YOU'RE NOT PAYING ATTENTION! 🤪 [/B]

😐 do you have a masters degree in business and a BA in history? 😐 and if he bought his scores why in the hell would he have a C average? 😐

which companies failed miserably... last time i checked he's a multi millionaire 😐

i think bush is the greatest president we have had in a long time he takes nothing from nobody and puts up with no bull $h!t

Originally posted by RaventheOnly

If we could invade any country we like there would have been several invasions.... everyone forgets that the reason we went into iraq originally was that UN sanctions had been breached by Saddam when his development of a new long range missle was being purchased from France and the UN inspectors were being kicked out again... and unlike the Clinton administration the post-9/11 world would not be able to tolerate breaching another 11 sanction mandates.... the mandates said follow them or you will be delt with... and he didn't listen and he was delt with... i don't see where we were off the wall in invading... 😬

Ok, post 9/11 world?

Ok, im sorry, but it is very ego centrical to think that the whole world should know and mourn 9/11. There is no differance between a bomb landing on a church somewhere in Africa or mosque somewhere in Iraq or hospital somewhere in Serbia where the USA is bombing and killing innocent civilians, and the planes flying into two skyscrapers and killing innocent civilians.

There is no differance whatsoever, apart from the fact that this time, it has happened in your country.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Ok, post 9/11 world?

Ok, im sorry, but it is very ego centrical to think that the whole world should know and mourn 9/11. There is no differance between a bomb landing on a church somewhere in Africa or mosque somewhere in Iraq or hospital somewhere in Serbia where the USA is bombing and killing innocent civilians, and the planes flying into two skyscrapers and killing innocent civilians.

There is no differance whatsoever, apart from the fact that this time, it has happened in your country.

😑 you forget that 70% of all UN is US funded and our country is swayed unfourtunetly by public opinion. The public get hurt they want the government to do 110% there is a difference between accidental collateral damage and targetting civilians.... are you complaining about the Allies slaughtering entire cities to get a autoplant in Germany? it could be like that you know... we are spending 200+ thousand on each laser guided bomb to try and minimize casualties.... 😬 we could easily just send a B-52 and level the town. 😐

Originally posted by ssj4goku
i think bush is the greatest president we have had in a long time he takes nothing from nobody and puts up with no bull $h!t

he is not the best definetly, but he is honest it seems and he doesn't take bull for sure.

Originally posted by RaventheOnly
😑 you forget that 70% of all UN is US funded and our country is swayed unfourtunetly by public opinion. The public get hurt they want the government to do 110% there is a difference between accidental collateral damage and targetting civilians.... are you complaining about the Allies slaughtering entire cities to get a autoplant in Germany? it could be like that you know... we are spending 200+ thousand on each laser guided bomb to try and minimize casualties.... 😬 we could easily just send a B-52 and level the town. 😐

Oh please! Thats exactly what your governemnt tells you and thats exactly what you believe, because Bush says so, it MUST be true!

Im sorry, but America has been bombing Iraq for a VERY long time, i hardly believe there were so many military targets! They are not, every country USA has been bombing has been bombing civilians, it is very goddamned naive and stuck up to think what has happened on sept 11th never happened anywhere else thanks to America!

How about the bomb on Hiroshima and Nagashaki...that sure as hell targeted civilians, mudrered so many people, and right now pleople are still dying from the nuclear blast!

People are dying right now, in Iraq, in Sudan, everywhere, right this minute...bombed and killed! Who is gonna remember and mourn those people?

Please, attitude like that is exactly why many nations hate Americans! You need to look outside the little box you're living in, theres a whole world outside USA, and it aint pretty!

Besides, who are you to police the globe? Who or what gave America the right to invade countries and patrol the world! I said it before and im saying it again, if any other country was doing what USA is doing now, that country would have been bombed and invaded.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Oh please! Thats exactly what your governemnt tells you and thats exactly what you believe, because Bush says so, it MUST be true!

Im sorry, but America has been bombing Iraq for a VERY long time, i hardly believe there were so many military targets! They are not, every country USA has been bombing has been bombing civilians, it is very goddamned naive and stuck up to think what has happened on sept 11th never happened anywhere else thanks to America!

How about the bomb on Hiroshima and Nagashaki...that sure as hell targeted civilians, mudrered so many people, and right now pleople are still dying from the nuclear blast!

People are dying right now, in Iraq, in Sudan, everywhere, right this minute...bombed and killed! Who is gonna remember and mourn those people?

Please, attitude like that is exactly why many nations hate Americans! You need to look outside the little box you're living in, theres a whole world outside USA, and it aint pretty!

Besides, who are you to police the globe? Who or what gave America the right to invade countries and patrol the world! I said it before and im saying it again, if any other country was doing what USA is doing now, that country would have been bombed and invaded.

There are plenty of military targets but the people you seem to be defending 😑 are using civilians as human shields...

Hiroshima and Nagasaki where necessary evils. the Japanese had proved to us that thier civilians where as dangerous as thier infantry and thier resolve would not be broken unless a massive show of force was used.... are you crying about those killed by Unit 731 in manchuria by the Japanese chemical warfare division? you do know that the Japanese had reserve chemical weapons ready to be unleashed upon our landing craft and thousands of suicide torpedo boats waiting on shore?

I know what lies outside of my country... i do not understand why you think i am somehow narrow minded and i do not care about the world.... we should have been fighting terrorists since the IRA and PLO started launching attacks against the civilized world... i have always believed that they are the true danger but if you had a mindful understanding on how the world works you would understand that no one wants to spend money in mass unless something motivates them... like pearl harbor or the execution of isreali hostages at the olymipics.

Would you like the US to retract into a shell and pull all funding of 3rd world countires and the UN? ... would that make you happy?

I do not get my knowledge or information for the 20 millionth time from a politician ... I GET IT FROM STUDIES IN HISTORY AND CURRENT EVENTS. you seem to be as force fed information as the stuck up Americans you hate so much.

Originally posted by RaventheOnly
😑 you forget that 70% of all UN is US funded and our country is swayed unfourtunetly by public opinion. The public get hurt they want the government to do 110% there is a difference between accidental collateral damage and targetting civilians.... are you complaining about the Allies slaughtering entire cities to get a autoplant in Germany? it could be like that you know... we are spending 200+ thousand on each laser guided bomb to try and minimize casualties.... 😬 we could easily just send a B-52 and level the town. 😐

yes, we, in the city I live in, had a BIG uprise about american bombings in WWII here cause they were kind enough to bomb our library... "cause there were bombs in it" 🙄

Oh i dont hate anyone! I have good friends who are Americans and some of them have restored my faith that there are still people in American who understand what their country is doing to the world!

You get your info from history?? I dont know what history you're reading, but its not the history the rest of us know!

Hahaha!! US to pull the funding from 3rd world countries? My god, you really are clueless!

You know what id like to do, id like to ask America to TOP THE AFRICAN DEBT!! How about that?? huh? How about not taking the debt money from Africa any longer...? You know that would be a rather huge solution for some people..especially africans!

There are ways to help the world with out invading and bombing the countries!

Raging war on a country like Iraq, killing its civilians and invading the country is terrorism! Maybe American should look into sorting itslef out before it begins to sort everyone else out!

You have no freedom in America right now, the goverment can spy on you, it can arrest you just for having a suspition, it monitors the books you read, it controls your every move, and im sooo goddamned amazed that some people cannot see how 9/11 has been taken as an excuse for Bush to pass this laws taking your freedom away.

Yeah, im sure you know whats happening outside USA, just like you know whats happening inside...please! You're so clueless, and you swollow everything you are told and accept it as truth!

Originally posted by yerssot
I only want to say one thing cause the rest just bulks out of stupidity:

yes, we, in the city I live in, had a BIG uprise about american bombings in WWII here cause they were kind enough to bomb our library... "cause there were bombs in it" 🙄

i don't know if you know this but WW2 and now is very different.... ✅ bombs effective accuracy was measured in 1000s of feet 😱 weapons being stored in a facility turn that facility into a military target and therefore threat. you wanna let the Germans use those bombs to level the city as the withdraw have a nice day. 🙂 Intelligence in those days as these are mainly eye to eye direct contact threw photo or spy. Are you going to cry about Monte Casino in Italy? 😊

Originally posted by RaventheOnly
he is not the best definetly, but he is honest it seems and he doesn't take bull for sure.

Honest. 🤣
I thought you knew about the WMDs? Guess not. 🙂

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Oh i dont hate anyone! I have good friends who are Americans and some of them have restored my faith that there are still people in American who understand what their country is doing to the world!

You get your info from history?? I dont know what history you're reading, but its not the history the rest of us know!

Hahaha!! US to pull the funding from 3rd world countries? My god, you really are clueless!

You know what id like to do, id like to ask America to TOP THE AFRICAN DEBT!! How about that?? huh? How about not taking the debt money from Africa any longer...? You know that would be a rather huge solution for some people..especially africans!

There are ways to help the world with out invading and bombing the countries!

Raging war on a country like Iraq, killing its civilians and invading the country is terrorism! Maybe American should look into sorting itslef out before it begins to sort everyone else out!

You have no freedom in America right now, the goverment can spy on you, it can arrest you just for having a suspition, it monitors the books you read, it controls your every move, and im sooo goddamned amazed that some people cannot see how 9/11 has been taken as an excuse for Bush to pass this laws taking your freedom away.

Yeah, im sure you know whats happening outside USA, just like you know whats happening inside...please! You're so clueless, and you swollow everything you are told and accept it as truth!

How will paying off a countries debt solve anything when they will just throw themselves into another hole. We spend billions in foriegn aid and send food to countries where 40% of thier income goes to arms sales.

We have no freedom? hysterical you are completely clueless aren't you? hysterical a bunch of rockers and protesters say something over and over enough you'll believe anything. 😂 Our government can barelly touch the media... I can go anywhere i please as long as the security guard thier or police officer doesn't think i am casing out the place or building an arms or explosives lab. 🙄 oh and the scary 3000+ CIA and FBi agents are going to be monitoring everything i say fear seriously there is not enough reasources that the entire US government possess to do anything you have just claimed hysterical The sole called tryranical Patriot act is just an easier way to get a already legal search warrent 🙄

Please tell me how you would have gotten Hussien to comply with the 11th UN mandate sanction which called for direct military action? Are you going to embago him which we already did?.... are you going to slap his wrist while he laughs? 😂 you really have no idea what goes on in this world at all. you do not understand how this world works at all.

Originally posted by MC Mike
Honest. 🤣
I thought you knew about the WMDs? Guess not. 🙂

🙄 then you must be deaf and blind to the UN inspectors and the entire security councel at the UN saying he had them 🙄 and you must be totally blind to the idea of arms smuggling 🙄