George W Bush

Originally posted by A4E
bush's as bad as hussein mayb even worse!!

Of course...with the acception of the US being Imperialistic...

So how many times has Bush gassed his own people? How many Americans has he tortured ? When was the last time the United States soccer team was beaten and tortured for losing? Thanks...

We aren't AQUIRING Iraq, we aren't TAKING OVER Iraq, we're removing an unfit leader from power, and ATTEMPTING to replace it with a democracy. And this has been generally accepted by the Iraqi people...

Restoring electricity, water, and improved sewage systems in areas of Iraq that never had such things.....VERY IMPERIALISTIC. 🙄

Lack of adequately trained security forces, accurate information, and a growing number of TERRORISTS. Yes, I do consider anyone willing to bomb their own people in order to prove a point to America....a Terrorist.

Since the begining of the war 88% of the Coalition casualties have been American. But that isn't the important figure. If you include the Iraqi Security personel who are working with the US and coalition, you'll find that some 38% of the total casualties have been Iraqi Security.

Of course, Lils comment about imperialism isn't completely false. The United States most certainly is trying to obtain oil from Iraq...but what would be the ultimate outcome of that? A more robust economy with a larger GDP? yah...i think so.

Originally posted by Lil Bitchiness
People of Iraq do not want to be saved....especially not by America.

are you an Iraqi citizen? Who are you to speak for the Iraqi people? Are you their country's representative? k. 😉

Go grab your history books people. And someone, please tell me the last time a war was completely done and wrapped up on ALL ENDS in a little over a year. Change takes time, and no one is willing to give that change any time.

grab your own history book and research who helped put saddam in power.

again...

When was the last time a war was completely wrapped up on ALL ENDS in a little over a year?

don't answer questions with questions...answer them with answers.

Originally posted by Linkalicious
are you an Iraqi citizen? Who are you to speak for the Iraqi people? Are you their country's representative? k. 😉

Go grab your history books people. And someone, please tell me the last time a war was completely done and wrapped up on ALL ENDS in a little over a year. Change takes time, and no one is willing to give that change any time.

And who are you to speak for them as well? Who are you to decide what goverment they are to have?

Originally posted by PVS
grab your own history book and research who helped put saddam in power.

👆 I was about to bring that up. Nice research 👆

again...answering questions with questions.

I'm not speaking for them, Bush is speaking for them. YOU are the one who's directly doing the speaking for them.

well, by your logic, noone can debate this issue besides an iraqi...so i guess we all may as well say nothing?

The CIAs use of political assination LED to Saddam becoming the leader of Iraq. It did NOT put him directly in charge of Iraq. It put the Ba'th Party in charge.

His rise through the ranks of the Party were a direct result of his ruthless tactics of murder, torture, and assination.

The US didn't say....here Saddam....have your own country.

Ok, let me rephrase then...

Who is Bush to speak for Iraqi people and whos gonna be the leader of their country.
Last time us ''heled'' iraq get a governemnt they put Saddam in power.

Originally posted by PVS
well, by your logic, noone can debate this issue besides an iraqi...so i guess we all may as well say nothing?

But you can go off and say whatever you like if it helps you try to create a point against me.

And you still haven't answered my question...

your question on when has war ever been clean and simple?
my answer: abso-f***in-lutely never. but i never fell under that
dillusion my friend...bush however did.

do the words "mission accomplished" ring a bell?

bush forgot a little detail called "power vaccume" and he also forgot the fact that iraq has been on the brink of a civil war for decades. the only thing keeping the people in check, unfortunately, was saddam.

but was he really dillusional? or did he just flat out lie about the cost of the war? he only quoted the cost of capturing hussein and temporarily securing major cities in iraq. BIG emphasis on 'temporarily'

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Ok, let me rephrase then...

Who is Bush to speak for Iraqi people and whos gonna be the leader of their country.
Last time us ''helped'' iraq get a governemnt they put Saddam in power.

excellent question, and I can admittedly tell you...I don't know who Bush is to think he can speak for the Iraqi people. As you've pointed out before, change shouldn't be forced, it should be brought out by the people.

But that doesn't make the United States Imperialists...

and in 1963, the CIA under Richard Helms did the political assination to create change in Iraq. They did not directly put Saddam in power...his own party did.

Originally posted by PVS
your question on when has war ever been clean and simple?
my answer: abso-f***in-lutely never. but i never fell under that
dillusion my friend...bush however did.

do the words "mission accomplished" ring a bell?

bush forgot a little detail called "power vaccume" and he also forgot the fact that iraq has been on the brink of a civil war for decades. the only thing keeping the people in check, unfortunately, was saddam.

but was he really dillusional? or did he just flat out lie about the cost of the war? he only quoted the cost of capturing hussein and temporarily securing major cities in iraq. BIG emphasis on 'temporarily'

now you're misquoting me in order to say "abso-f***in-lutely never" but it still proves my point. It's NEVER over in such a short period of time....and people are VERY quick to say the US has already failed in its efforts.

yes, i quite clearly remember those words. But again, those words came from a president who has multiple CDs out just replaying his infamously stupid quotes.

i'm not trying to defend Bush here, I'm trying to defend the US as a whole. As of last debate....Screw Bush.

👇 Seriously, this sucks. America should stop doing this for its own good. They did hel Saddam into power, they didnt directly put him, you're right, but this and Bin Laden (who US trained) and Taliban and all that crap, all came back and bit US in the ass.

So maybe its time to get your nose out of people's business, because the next time might be worse than 9/11.

"When was the last time a war was completely wrapped up on ALL ENDS in a little over a year?"
i wasnt quoting you, just answering your question. but im not sure how you think i should answer it. all i can do is give my own views.

BTW lil bitchiness, we seem to have a split thread debate going on, between this thread and the john kerry thread. different candidates, same foreign policy debates...its getting confusing

Should i merge?

perhaps, its the same debate, different title

Dude, I was saying that you guys are going beyond not liking Bush...I was joking...he's not imperialistic...and saying that if you disagree with him that your in the wrong or going to jail...don't cram words down my throat...

wtf? Should he expect to get arrested for saying he doesnt like Bush?? Well that tells you a lot what kind of leader he is...imperialistic!

This was the quote by the way:

"wtf? Should he expect to get arrested for saying he doesnt like Bush?? Well that tells you a lot what kind of leader he is...imperialistic!"