"What's easier to believe, once you die...there's nothing.
or that there's actually Gold Gates with puffy white clouds and everything great that I could ever imagine up there."
I believe there's much much more than just death because in my opinion it's more sensible, in all that is and all that we don't know about and cannot comprehend, to believe there is SOMETHING rather than nothing. Secondly, why do you say Gold Gates and puffy clouds like everyone who believes in reincarnation or the afterlife believes in that notion?
I believe there's more after we die than we know, but I don't believe it's fluffy clouds and gold gates.
-AC
Im very skeptical about everything the bible says as, even strong believers, agree that parts of it are exagerated stories used to teach us morals, so how r we supposed to know which parts are real and which parts arnt? Also it all seems very unrealistic to me, scientific explanations suit me much better, but thats just my nature...
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
"What's easier to believe, once you die...there's nothing.or that there's actually Gold Gates with puffy white clouds and everything great that I could ever imagine up there."
I believe there's much much more than just death because in my opinion it's more sensible, in all that is and all that we don't know about and cannot comprehend, to believe there is SOMETHING rather than nothing. Secondly, why do you say Gold Gates and puffy clouds like everyone who believes in reincarnation or the afterlife believes in that notion?
I believe there's more after we die than we know, but I don't believe it's fluffy clouds and gold gates.
-AC
if you believe there is more....then what more is there that you believe.
Can you describe it to me? can you tell me what it's like?
NO...why not? hmmmmmm.....because its not there. MAYBE??
Originally posted by shellie
this is another thing . i believe there is a heaven , but not how the bible describes it to be........im more into believing the way a gnostic christain does .
We had that discussion here:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f75/t300942.html
It got kinda wacky with the homeless issue. 🤪
Originally posted by yerssot
kewl, than it also qualifies as a miracle that my PC still hasn't frozen up after being on for 6 hours straight where it normally did that after 3 😊
OK smarty pants, what does qualify as a miracle?? you dnt have to agree w/me, but you don't have to be rude about it either. 🙂
Originally posted by DracosGirl
Im very skeptical about everything the bible says as, even strong believers, agree that parts of it are exagerated stories used to teach us morals, so how r we supposed to know which parts are real and which parts arnt? Also it all seems very unrealistic to me, scientific explanations suit me much better, but thats just my nature...
I've never heard of any strong believe say that there is exagerated parts in the bible, not saying some haven't just saying I haven't heard. I am a very strong believer and believe in it all
Hmmm, a factual discussion here ... NOT!!!!
And that on one of my favourite topics! So what are you discussing here. That the Bible consists of historical facts or whether there are suc things as a God, heaven, hell, miracles and whathaveya??? It seems like the bunch of you just chuck a lot of easy lines and opinions in here that sound clever, but there is hardly any basis for them.
If you stick to beliefs, you stick to beliefs, there little room for argument there. If you want to talk about facts that support the beliefs, that's a compeletely different debate.
Now, I'll just chuck a couple of cents on my account:
1. No one can scientifically prove there is a God. No can scientifically prove there is no God. End of debate.
2. No one can scientifically prove there is a heaven or a hell. No can scientifically prove there is no heaven or hell. End of debate.
Now, if you want to talk about the original topic, Does the Bible contain facts?, saying you don't BELIEVE some things happened is hardly an argument. There were a lot of people during WWII (and even NOW!!!) that don't believe Jews were being systematically slaughtered in a Nazi genocide. However, facts show that it DID happen.
I admit, with the Bible it gets a little trickier, especially when we go further back in time, but we're not entirely devoid of some factual evidence. It's a big topic though, but it requires a bit more knowlegde that most of you displayed so far in trying to sound intelligent or enlightened.
queeq, you know full well that you have to prove things DO exist, not that they don't, so the second half of your 'end of debate' sentences are complete irrelevances. The burden of proof is to establish, not to dismiss; only once reasonable evidence has been presented does it need to be refuted.
"However, facts show that it DID happen."
Not wanting for one moment to back the denial lobby, but the only reason they exist at all is because- as came to a surprise for everyone, including the judge, in David Irving's attempt to sue for libel about comments on his own denial- there is no historically solid evidence for the Holocaust- not that meets normal standards. A heck of a lot of witnesses, of course, which is where the movement looks rather silly. But if there WERE such facts as you say, the movement would not have the backing it does.
As the judge said in his ruling:
"What is the evidence for mass extermination of Jews at those camps? The consequence of the absence of any overt documentary evidence of gas chambers at these camps, coupled with the lack of archeological evidence, means that reliance has to be placed on eye witness and circumstantial evidence, which I shall shortly summarise."
And of course, he then found against Irving based on those factors. But whilst I am not denying that some people have beliefs against fact, I don't think this was a good or appropriate example because the literal, demonstrable facts are not clear.
As for being on topic... well, the thread is clearly simply asking for opinions, not supported dissertations, so there is no need to get stuffy just beause people are broadcasting them.
In the final analysis, huge amounts of the Bible are down to interpretation, and hence you can broadly say you either believe it or you do not. A lot of people say they do not and I would join them- if we are pigeonholing, that is, because that's not to say it has nothing of value in it.
As for the holocaust, I guess the documents from the NAzis with the endless lists of victims and termination dates are no proof at all. Besides, even withness accounts are proof. Especially if there are a lot and they agree. Especially since they exists from immediately after the war, when it's impossible to argue that it's old ancient memory.
And as for the Bible, yopu gotta know the facts before you say you don't believe it. There are many events and persons described in the Bible. There's a lot of checking possibilities to see if there's evidence that support events or the very existence of people. Apart from that, it's impossible to dismiss the Bible as a fairytale book beforehand. It's hard to say it's a historical document, because we would judge it by modern day standards of history books (which isn't fair in the firts place). Yet, of many stories in the Bible there is proof that they do speak of historical events. They may noy be complete, they may not tell the whole story or everything there is to know about it (then again, what history book does), ye can one just dismiss it as nonsense just because it in te Bible? I think taht is a grave misconception.
So without knowing any of this, how can you say it's all nonsense. For instance, no serious scientist would dismiss Jesus as a historical character. So how you can you all he did or said in the Bible is complete nonsense? It requires a bit more nuance than that.
my thing is this..........
the bible was written by man . as we all know that man tends to fabricate stories and turn them into somrthing that they are not . then through the years it has been rewritten by the churches to make it fit into how they think man should live there life for god .
i believe it was meant to be a factual book . all i personally see it as is a book stories loosely based on some facts that some claim they can prove .
therefore in my "opinion" making the bible fiction .