Does Dooku Want to be Killed?

the evidence is shotty at best, but hear me out...

in AotC we see the duel between dooku and kenobi, with anakin sizzling in the corner, having just been zapped with force lightning. dooku cuts kenobi's arm and leg...disarming him and rendering him helpless. without a second thought, dooku winds up for the final blow to end the life of his padawan's padawan.
it stands to reason that had anakin not jumped in, kenobi would be dead.

now, anakin...who dooku has never even met, mind you... takes his turn and fights. dooku makes even shorter work of him, slices his arm clean off..........and then....does nothing.
he extinguishes his saber, looks at anakin...and gives an expression that i can only translate as regret. i honestly beleive that if yoda had not showed up, dooku would have spared anakin...does anyone else get that impression?

the answer to that is simple...dooku is in with sidious...so he knows that sidious has plans for young master anakin. however..... having been a former jedi master, and now a sith...surely dooku knows that there can only be 2 sith...so with the addition of anakin, that leaves dooku the 'odd man out'.

so why would dooku not slice anakin down right there and keep his powerful position as sith apprentice?

to head straight to my point, i see one of three things happening in ep3:

1-dooku tries to convince anakin to join him and strike down sidious...but for that to happen, palps would have to reveal his true identity to anakin early in the film...i find this scenario doubtful.

2-dooku realizes that palps planned to have anakin kill him and take his place, and feels betrayed...like i stated, dooku realizes that in the sith, two's company and three's a crowd...so i also find that doubtful.

3-dooku plans on being killed. after loosing quigon he feels total hatred toward the jedi, and especially to obiwan for "letting" quigon die, and the council for leading quigon to his death...not to mention his frustration with a functionless republic. with his life's last action of spite he choses to lead the 'chosen one' down the dark path and end the jedi's exhistance forever.

i find #3 to be the most believable.
i can see a scene in ep3 with quigon staring down anakins lightsaber, totally defenseless. i can then see him saying "your hate has made you powerful...now strike me down with all of your hatred...i am defensless..etc"

anyway, it makes perfect sense to me.
what do you all think?
questions...comments...perhaps a counter-theory?

shoot

I think he knows that he has to help palpatine along by giving his life so anakin goes to the darkside in the long run just like assja ventress was only sent to make sure anakin gets more anger in him so by the time he gets to dooku he will be know match for anakin and I would think dooku would have known this.

here´s a theory: Dooku eventually wanted to take over palpy and he
needs help. That´s why he tried to get obi-wan come with him to the darkside.
When that failied he might have a backup plan for anakin (which palpy is not aware of). I wondered that too why he did not kill anakin when
he had a chance to do so...dont know..maybe we´ll find out next year.

Originally posted by aracai
here´s a theory: Dooku eventually wanted to take over palpy and he
needs help. That´s why he tried to get obi-wan come with him to the darkside.
When that failied he might have a backup plan for anakin (which palpy is not aware of)...

yes, this relates to #1: "dooku tries to convince anakin to join him and strike down sidious..."

however, i failed to mention the connection to that conversation on geonosis between dooku and kenobi. yes, it is possible that dooku genuinely wanted kenobi to join him...and that his sights will then be set on anakin.

i think it is very possible, but i still lean more toward #3.

i think that #2 just wont happen, i hope it doesnt, because it would make dooku look like a fool and ruin his character.

I'm sure Dooku has given some thought as to what will happen to him in the near future. He probably knows Sidious won't keep him forver, yet at the same time he feel's trapped and is afraid of what might happen if he tries to break away from him.

i have a feeling we might be reading abit too much into this as previous star wars storylines are rarely so complexed that they require this much debate.
i'd say that dooku's face after slicing anakin's arm off was just that of a tired old man who had jus fought two of the strongest jedi in history.
but hey, i could be wrong!

No Dark Sider would want to give his own life.

I very much doubt Dooku wants Anakin to become worth anything at all; he was just getting ready to gloat after a triumphant fight. And yes, he would rather take on the mantle of Master with Obi-Wan as his apprentice.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
No Dark Sider would want to give his own life.

no ush, not out of self sacrifice, but what of hatred?
my point is that dooku may just have himself killed as a big "FU"
to the jedi. nothing virtuous about that.

and to the previous poster, i see this in no way as being complex or reaching far for a theory. dooku hates the jedi, dooku is a sith...dooku, however evil, is a very wise cat, so he knows the whole deal with "only two there are"
its very possible, i think.

you said that maybe he knew that sidious wanted anakin right? yes. and maybe he wanted to over through sidious, but in order to do that, he needed a certain someone's help, (a.k.a. Obi Wan). Then after getting the help and over-throwing sidious he would "return" to the dark and take up anikan. this relates to your guys', but here's something that i'll just throw out here. just say dooku DOES get the truce or alliance between him and the jedi's, or just Obi Wan, and in the third one mace find's out about sidious because of this alliance and then confronts him. that is when he dies from anakin or sidious, but i've also heard that anakin fights dooku there, maybe because dooku doesn't want anakin to fight mace, he thinks he could loose, and like i said, he wanted him on HIS side, not sidious's, but anakin end's up killing both of them. whew. do you get what i'm saying, and please don't bash if you don't. out........

I think after fighting Anakin he was supposed to look a little tired.

How much better would Dooku's charachter have been if he was shown as a jedi and as Qui Gons former master in Ep 1. There could have been a scene with Dooku, Qui Gon, Obi Wan and Anakin that could be as simple as walking down a hall in the temple that now would be incredible looking back on it. Also it would have acctually allowed a few people to think that Dooku wasnt bad in Ep2. ( Having him created for Ep 2 as the new bad guy kind of gave away the mystery Lucas said he was looking for...in his mind people didnt know he was bad till the arena...ha)

I always considered that look that he gives in Episode 2 to be tired as well. I don't believe there was any regret there. He injured them both, he didn't kill them.

Though, what I seriously have to wonder, is if Yoda hadn't showed up, would he have delivered the final blow to both Anakin and Obi-Wan who were severly hurt, or would he have taken off?

it would suck, having dooks capture his "padawan's padawan" and trying to make him evil, or join his neutral side (not with jedi, sort-of against sidious too). i liked the surprise when he said "I was once Qui Gon's master, as he was once your's. He wouldn't helped me i i asked him too." Obi Wan "He never would have joined you", yada yada yoda- i mean yada.

i'm intrigued by this idea, i think i read something similar in darth surgents radical interpretation thread....i hadn't really thought about it before. but it's got me thinking now....

when dooku tells obi wan not to be so sure about quigon joining him, that scene always seemed to be hinting at something a bit more complex....he could just be baiting him, but maybe there's more to it...

this ties in with thoughts i've been having about quigon's supposed rebelliousness, it's mentioned so many times in tpm, but we really don't get much evidence of it apart from anakin being presented to the council....the only reason i even noticed it, is that it's referred to so often in the dialogue....so why the emphasis?....

quote:
"i have a feeling we might be reading abit too much into this as previous star wars storylines are rarely so complexed that they require this much debate."

actually, to me the prequels have gotten extremely complex and laden with hints designed to confuse people and lead to debate....i only hope lucas follows through in this last one, and lets loose with a few shocking revelations.....i was waiting for something on anakin's father after tpm, but they say that's not gonna happen....they do lie sometimes, and that rumour about a traitor on the council originated from the official site if i'm not mistaken....they're having a lot of fun stirring all this up....

but will there be any payoffs?....

oh, and ghetto goblin (spoiler alert)......

i'm pretty sure dooku dies at the beginning of the film on the fed cruiser, it just makes the time frame a little tight....but it could well be a better idea than what's in the film....

some of you guys are totally missing my point.

dooku waisted no time in trying to kill kenobi (with exception to him twirling his sabre just before) he extinguished his saber after fighting anakin.

how can that just be because he's "tired"?

Hmm...that's another interesting point as well. Seems to me like he'd of kept his saber on if he wanted them dead, but I never thought of it like that.

you answered yourself, although i should let someone post in between us, he knew that sidious had "plans" for anakin and if he killed him then sidious would be furious and end up killing dooks.

CORRECT GUIRO!!!
thank you

there are many complexities in the OT, and tenfold more in the PT.
SW isnt JUST meant for children. ask a small child what a "vote of no confidence" is, or a "sympathy vote", thats kinda complex, and the cenral reason why palps vas voted chancelor.

there are layers to the story
an obvious battle between good and evil for the kids and adults to enjoy,
and a deeper layer that we continue to discover.

EDIT: im not saying this to attempt to solidify my theory, but i fully disagree when people view star wars as a kinda dumbed down story meant for 10 year olds to understand through and through.

it always struck me that Dookus 'look' was that he misjudged Anakin and thought he was weaker than he was. So it tired him out don't forget Anakin had just started to touch the dark side at this point. But the count did turn off his lightsaber hmmmm....
meditate on this i will.

it's an interesting point....and a valid one....

you could ask why he was so willing to feed anakin to the lions in the arena, but then maybe that was seen as yet another test for the "chosen one".....the way he holds nute back from a straight out kill is suspicious as well....

yes, maybe he knew the jedi were beyond being killed by beasts, especially the chosen one...hell, the droids could even have been programmed to not kill anakin...but thats too deep