Originally posted by PVS
right, but in the OT, it was about the element of surprise "i am your father"
now that scene loses all magic, since the future unspoiled audience will aleady know that.
I don't agree entirely that it was about the element of surprise. Surprise itself doesn't make the three films work, it certainly didn't make the first one work. But what is there is the bigger story: Luke is adopted, he finds out the truth about his father hasn't been told, his mentor gets killed by the one who 'killed' his father, he fights a space battle with that evil thug (so far just ANH), then that evil thug catches up with him and his Rebel Friends, his dead mentor tells him to become a Jedi like his father, gets taught and has to meet his destiny: his father's 'killer' who then claims to BE his father instead of killing his son (ESB), then some time later Luke has matured and has one thing left to complete his destiny - to face his father in a final clash of good and evil. THAT is the OT, there's an ongoing confluict which is still wonderful to watch to day: there's clear stuff at stake and we still live with our heroes to see how they're gonna clear it up.
The PT lacks such an emotional backstory entirely. It's basically charming and very talented little boy get found by inspiring mentor, becomes greatest Jedi against the odds, and becomes a baddy.... I mean, it's basically a story one can tell in one movie.
no, surprise is not a central element...but "i am your father" is perhaps the most famous movie quote next to "go ahead make my day" and "frankly my dear i dont give a damn". now it means squat. maybe not to us, since we still remember the moment, but to future viewers...
but hey...as a previous poster said "screw em" 😄
just realized how far from the topic we've strayed 🙂
oh well, lets see if i can bring it back
lets go back to ESB, vader's chat with palps. they mutually plan eachother's downfall, knowing that their intentions are not hidden from the other.
"always two there are, no more, no less"
so they are basically comfortable with the idea of one of them dying, in fact looking forward to it.
the point i'm making is, if dooku wants to overthrow palps, i doubt he would hide the idea from him. they both have one purpose, to serve the darkside. that is why vader and palps had no problem with the open plan of mutual deception. whatever the outcome, evil would still reign.
well, vader brought up the idea...
they both know there can be only 2
its a safe deduction that neither plan was secret
HOWEVER, vader hides luke's identity from the beginning of the film till that conversation. so, there was a secret going for a while. i imagine palpatine meditated on vader's thoughts and picked up on it