What will vader think

I think that Vader and the Emperor know Obi-Wan survived, I mean Anakin has to know the last thing he saw before he fell in the lava was Obi-Wan. And it's clear from the lines in ANH that it is common knowledge that Obi-Wan survived. Tarkins tells Vader that "surely he must be dead by now", implying that he must have died since the great purge and before their conversation on the Death Star. Then, during the duel, Vader tells Obi-Wan he "should not have come back." Again, implying that Vader knew that he was out there some where.

What this means to me is that Anakin and Palpatine knew that Obi-Wan was alive, but MAYBE not Yoda. They simply considered him(Obi-Wan) no threat.

I don't believe Vader knew that his children were alive. I'm sure both he and Palpatine assumed they died with Padme. Anakin might not have known she was pregnant with twins, we'll see in the movie(but, from ROTJ we can assume he does not.) What this means is that once Vader senses the force in the pilot that destroys the Death Star, he knows something is up. We also know that Vader has killed Obi-Wan by that time. We also know that Vader says that Kenobi IS on the Death Star and that the Force is with him. As we know, after Anakin's(the chosen one's) fall/"death" at the end of the duel in ROTS, no more force sensative beings are born and that the light sid eof the force exists only in teh world of the dead with the fallen Jedi. This has to raise Vaders eyebrow...or whats left of them. He knows Obi-Wan is dead by this point...so this other HAD to have been born before the fall. This is where the wheels start to turn in Vaders mind.

So, to sum it up: Vader knows Kenobi is alive, before he kills him.(As does Tarkin and the Emperor) Vader knows, after the trench run and destruction of the Death Star, that there is a new force sensative being in the galaxy...and that he is strong. He knows Padme is dead, and that he is at fault. He MAY think that Yoda is dead. He will eventually find out that the force died when he fell to the dark side and will, at his death, know what Kenobi meant when he said "if you strike me down, I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine"....by becoming a force ghost himself.

CF,

I agree with most of everything you have to say, but with a twist...

I dont think by what we know of ANH/ESB that Vader really knows for sure if Luke is not alive; the trench run is like a confirmation of his perceived thoughts.....

In ESB, Vader is quite adament in his statement to Luke "I am your father" there is no wavering.....
Vader doesnt know of Leia.....so that tells me he is not really sure he ever had twins.....
Lucas will hang himself if he goes back on that.....

The Emperor/Vader/Tarkin are all aware of ObiWan but not his present state...
Nobody is aware of Yoda except ObiWan [possible Luke aunt/uncle].......
And nobody is aware of Leia and except Yoda and ObiWan....

capt fantastic, you summed that up well, and kadub's additions complete the picture the way i see it at this point....

the only thing is the rumour about the force dying when anakin turned to the dark side was apparently debunked shortly after it came to light.....it still could be true (official sources may have snuffed it out to throw us off the scent), and i actually found it quite interesting myself (need some big twists in this film), but the last thing i heard was that it wasn't true....

Guiro,

Thanks..... 😛

Originally posted by Master Kadub
CF,

I agree with most of everything you have to say, but with a twist...

I dont think by what we know of ANH/ESB that Vader really knows for sure if Luke is not alive; the trench run is like a confirmation of his perceived thoughts.....

In ESB, Vader is quite adament in his statement to Luke "I am your father" there is no wavering.....
Vader doesnt know of Leia.....so that tells me he is not really sure he ever had twins.....
Lucas will hang himself if he goes back on that.....

The Emperor/Vader/Tarkin are all aware of ObiWan but not his present state...
Nobody is aware of Yoda except ObiWan [possible Luke aunt/uncle].......
And nobody is aware of Leia and except Yoda and ObiWan....

Cool, I'm glad we agree. But Obi-Wan doesn't know about Leia. Yoda tells him "there is another" when Luke goes off to confront Vader on cloud city. Also, I'm sure that Vader is sure Luke is his son....there's no question there.

People could have aptitude for the Force in the time of ANH, Vader's just making a comment in battle. It seemed that Vader didn't really know until the Emperor tells him about the "son of Skywalker" in ESB. But that scene has now been altered so we'll see.....

yeah, actually obi wan seeming to not know about leia is something i had noticed.....i think it was a hole lucas accidentally left in esb, because he hadn't actually decided who "the other" was (i've heard mark hammil was convinced it was a way he could be replaced in the 3rd film by luke's long lost brother)....but what i wonder is how lucas will approach it in ep III....obi wan needs to use the bathroom just before leia is born, and misses it?.....very tricky....

i've always had the feeling vader senses something MAJOR about luke, from the scene on the death star just after he's killed obi wan, when he lumbers towards the closing door.....i know he's wearing a mask, but he just always seemed....erm....don't know how to explain it....distracted in a quiet, lost way....(best i can do)....gobsmacked, maybe....

i don't know whether he knows luke's alive before that, i wouldn't be surprised either way.....it reads both ways.....

I thought (for a while) that Obi was being sexist because he doesn't think Leia could do the job. But now, I begin to think that he wanted to remind Vader of who he was with Luke's similarities. Or at least to distract him with that so Luke would have a chance to kill him. I almost think Obi and Yoda have two different ideas about what should happen......

it's always implied that yoda has at least a little more insight into the big picture than obi wan i think....

maybe they don't put so much emphasis on leia because of specifics in the prophecy...."son of suns" and all that (whatever it is)....

Maybe.....
But as far as we know, Vader doesn't know of Luke till the Emperor tells him. In fact, on the DVD, Palpatine refers to him now as the young rebel who destroyed the Death Star. Did Lucas think that should be clarified? Maybe.

i'll have to watch esb again, it's been a while....i'm basically undecided on whether vader and palpatine know luke survived....i'm thinking no, but that vader's sensing some weird stuff in anh that he hasn't quite pieced together yet....is the esb crawl the one with vader "obsessed with finding skywalker"?....

dunno, i will have to hit the sack soon, it's weird that palpatine refers to luke as the son of skywalker in the new dubbed scene when he's talking to vader......i think if you were going to change anything, that might make less sense than the original version....but i need to watch it again to refresh my memory...

Yeah, these forums make me want to skim through the OT. I liked that scene the way it was, but I'll reserve judgement till I see it. Well, I'm gonna split, later.

I think ObiWan is aware of Leia, because of the way the conversation about leia is picked up in ROTJ....
Yoda is definately aware of the situation of both Luke/Leia....

Vader/Anakin has his suspicions about Luke in ANH; but remember he has probably never seen Luke or not since he was a child; so he would never know what he looked like.....it is after ANH that Vader's suspicions are confirmed....

The Emperor doesnt know anything, til Vader tells him of Luke....
now the Emperor is aware of the threat of Luke.....

Neither the Emperor or Vader are aware of Leia til the fight in the throne room.....

'Yoda is the true master of disguise'

Originally posted by Cowboyography
I know nothing is for sure but what do you think Vader will know at the end of Ep 3? For instance will he believe that Yoda and Ob1 are still alive? What will convince him they are dead? ALso I read somewhere that he will know Padme had twins, but not sure. Also will Palp know more than vader? By that I mean will palp know of Yoda and Obi1's hiding?

This might not be exactly on topic, but has anyone ever wondered what Vader thinks when he sees C3PO in the OT? "hhhhhhpppppp......hmmm there is something familiar about this droid.....hhhppp...I sense a presence....". Of course he might think nothing of it because it's a pretty common droid too, but isn't it odd how Lucas is tying R2 and 3PO into every event in both the old and new movies? Luke's running around with the droids that served his dad. Just a thought..

Well, Ken Benobi, you bring up a point I haven't heard (or seen) anyone mention in quite some time....
Does Vader stop Boba Fett from firing because that's his droid? Maybe....
But probably Vader knew Han would stop Chewie from going crazy.

DC you just reminded me of something. Folks have been talking about Vader knowing or not knowing about Luke or Leah's existence. Well, in the scene you referred to, when Han is telling Chewie he has to protect the Princess, remember how Vader looks at her and she has that frightened look like...he's coming for me next, or he's wondering something about me....it's like he Vader knows and Leah knows something too, even if she is unsure of what she knows...

He does? She does?
Since I started posting on this site, my memory has been tested greatly.
I need those dvds; I'm too lazy to fast forward through video tape.
Hmmmm..... maybe she feared what Vader had in store for her, after all, she'd experienced his interrogation in ANH. Sith have their ways of getting information.

that's true- they had met before......

but when I see that scene from ESB it's like Vader is looking at her differently than before....like he senses something- seems to imply something more, like Leah was responding to whatever Vader was doing or thinking at the time...

Maybe he picked up atrace of the Force and attributed it to Luke arriving?
Keep in mind he has no clue of her potential. Um, I just thought of something- that must be how she's safe around Vader because with no knowledge of what she can do, she won't draw on the Force. That would make sense because in the PT kids had to be tested.....
Hmmm, in ESB Leia is developing a bond with the Force on her own. At the end of the movie she hears Luke's call.... Interesting, I never thought of it like that.
🤓

True, another good point...because he(Vader) apparently doesn't think much of Leah until Luke's feelings betray her in ROTJ