Apocalypse vs gladiator

Originally posted by Wynndar
would anyone like to inform me how a weak ass earthly mutant like Apoc, who cant take over the earth....cant take over my garage...would be able to take Franklin Richards?

That's probably a situation where he would take impersonate somebody Franklin knows or just take on a random human form and befriend him. Then either spring a trap of some sort or just manipulate him until he's just a pawn.

...as a child he can subconsiously create a universe, manipulate time and matter...press "reset" on reality (Abraxis battle)...

Hehehe, this part made me laugh. I know what you mean but it's worded as if he subconciously did these things at will.

Molecule Man

It happend in uncanny x-men 341. Glads wanted to get help from the x-men, started to fight with Cannonball beat him up a little bit, but Cannonball was doing ok. Glads got mad and used all his power in one blow, Cannonball channeled all the kinetic energy from his killer blow and directed it to his force field. Glads lost his confidence and Cannonball punched him away

Didn't even go like that...Gladiator was toying with him the whole time. And I addressed this matter a few post ago already.

Yes true but in the end Cannonball did pretty well, so i guess if they were ever to fight again i really think Cannonball have a fair chance

😆 ...fair chance of dying? Here's an illustration by a poster from another board of how this fight went.

Gladiator VS. Cannonball

http://superherochat.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=70230&highlight=gladiator

En Saba Nur

Celestial tech>>>>>>> Shi'ar tech

Apoc's full capabilities have not been elucidated. As for his comic perf., I can say for sure some of the writers hate him( maybe cause he's ageless, and has such cool powers and tech, or who knows). Gladiator would be owned, if we provided decent writers( world's oldest and most powerful mutant enhanced with some of the top technology in the universe, hopefully some day a writer will come along and realize that this actually means.. .).

Where are you getting this idea that Apocalypse KNOWS ALL of the Celestials Tech? Just cause he has it DOESN'T mean he knows how to use it to its FULLEST. Hell, I'll bet you my dad can fiddle with Microsoft Access and figure out a few things, but HE ISN'T going to know how to use it effectively unless he hit the HELP BUTTON. Even then he'd still have problems since HE'S COMPUTER ILLITERATE. You think Apocalypse has full access to Celestial Tech, having them doesn't mean he knows how to use them! Try decryption of Celestial language to begin with. And just cause you know the language doesn't mean you'll automatically know how the tech operates.

Celestial Tech > Shi'Ar > Kree > Skrull > Earth's

Apocalypse AIN'T no genius to begin with. His intelligence came from learning what little he could from the Celestial Tech and being able to live long enough to attain all the knowledge he has. Even then, Reed Richards or Doctor Doom have techs that rival or above what Apocalypse has created using what little he knows from Celestial Tech.

would anyone like to inform me how a weak ass earthly mutant like Apoc, who cant take over the earth....cant take over my garage...would be able to take Franklin Richards?...as a child he can subconsiously create a universe, manipulate time and matter...press "reset" on reality (Abraxis battle)...and have limitless power as an Adult...Apoc is way outclassed there...dont base any information off the cartoons, they are entirely inaccurate. Apoc is not the most powerful mutant...I honestly dont think he is the oldest either (Azael). a gang of earthlings can beat him...it just takes more than a couple of x-men like Shadowcat and Morph to get him

The series, were just an example. As for Franklin, I'll have to see if he's all that he's hyped up to be, from what I've read so far nate grey ain't. It's still BS if true, I mean millenia old super mutant with GENETIC ENGINEERING knowledge, and some technology from those who hang with "the one above all"(unless the comics explain more, that seems like a reference to you know who). which should mean it's pretty much the best tech in the universe by far. A guy with such a background getting owned by a baby who got his power from cosmic radiation around the earth, iirc... is nonsensical writing IMHO

Oh, and yes cable could probably be able to beat apoc or at least give him the fight of his life, without the virus, as he'd be stronger than nate grey. Sinister fckd up big time by placing limitations on nate.

Where are you getting this idea that Apocalypse KNOWS ALL of the Celestials Tech? Just cause he has it DOESN'T mean he knows how to use it to its FULLEST.

Obviously he doesn't know how to use it all, but it seems Celestial tech should be way way beyond Shi' ar tech, even a portion of it would be above Shi' Ar, though I may be wrong, I've not read that much about celestials(marvel directory).

You think Apocalypse has full access to Celestial Tech, having them doesn't mean he knows how to use them! Try decryption of Celestial language to begin with. And just cause you know the language doesn't mean you'll automatically know how the tech operates.

Celestial Tech > Shi'Ar > Kree > Skrull > Earth's

Apocalypse AIN'T no genius to begin with. His intelligence came from learning what little he could from the Celestial Tech and being able to live long enough to attain all the knowledge he has. Even then, Reed Richards or Doctor Doom have techs that rival or above what Apocalypse has created using what little he knows from Celestial Tech..

PS as for why apocalypse hasn't taken over, I think it's cause he was waiting for more mutants to arise, and to attain power through war, as he espouses survival of the fittest. ( or maybe not, I know not)

Yupp agree with you here is kinda stupid that an offspring of two beings who got their powers from cosmic radiation should be that powerful. But that's the way it is and Franklin owns Apoc big time

Molecule man

Yupp agree with you here is kinda stupid that an offspring of two beings who got their powers from cosmic radiation should be that powerful. But that's the way it is and Franklin owns Apoc big time

...kinda stupid like a geeky scientist who gains powers over molecules through a cosmic rift, huh? And became more powerful than the Cube Beings (Kubik, Kosmos, etc.). I don't seem to remember his name, do you Molecule man? 😛

Franklin IS that powerful, and it isn't stupid. Sue Richard's powers derive from the very dimension of the Celestials. While pregnant, Reed saved their child's life with the help of the Cosmic Control Rod of Negative Zone. Additionally, Franklins a mutant as well which would bust his powers even more (think Thanos who's a Mutant Eternal Titan).

Sue's power deriving from Celestial dimension + cosmic rod + mutation = Franklin Richards

That's why Franklin at full potential is near or above a Celestial. Franklin smash punny Apocolypse.

En Saba Nur
Oh, come on, it's not like he hasn't a clue either, I mean just look at his body, the guy's had millenia's with the tech, he's body's pretty much filled to the brim with it(sometimes when he open's his mouth it's machinery what you see). He's used it to regenerate his body, and constantly increase his powers. As for intellect, he can grow in size, and alter his body at the molecular scale, he could probably increase intellect as he does with strength, size, energy, speed.

...yet he still hasn't conquered the world. Just cause he figured out how to weild together Celestial dumpster lids into an armor & incorporated some of their kitchen appliance's tech into his armor doesn't mean his tech puts him above Shi'Ar tech. If it did, he'd conquer the Earth by now. The Shi'Ar has an entire empire which they rule; Apocalypse can't even conquer Earth in millenias.

Originally posted by Beyonder
Franklin IS that powerful, and it isn't stupid. Sue Richard's powers derive from the very dimension of the Celestials. While pregnant, Reed saved their child's life with the help of the Cosmic Control Rod of Negative Zone. Additionally, Franklins a mutant as well which would bust his powers even more (think Thanos who's a Mutant Eternal Titan).

It IS stupid outside the comic world. Franklin's mutation was probably enhanced by what Sue and Reed do but not by what they are.

You mean like how Peter Parker & Mary Jane Watson conceived Spidergirl?

Also stupid but slightly less so.

Edit: But not stupid in that the characters are stupid, just those events are stupid.

Apocalypse vs Gladiator.....

i love how people put down FR just because they dont think anyone could be that powerful and dont even know him from comics

Well they have a justifiable point. When a character becomes that powerful, it detracts from the stories and it's a testament to poor writing. It's basically saying 'we don't know what unique and cool power to come up with anymore, so we'll give them all to him.' A mortal who is powerful enough to create universes is ridiculous, and again, is just poor writing. Especially when that mortal is in a toddler.

Originally posted by Paola
Apocalypse vs Gladiator.....

Gladiator. Unless it's Maximus, then probably Apocalypse 😉

actually, its good writing, when he uses his powers like that there is always high cost or it is in response to some tragedy (his family being killed in Onslaught, or his baby sister dieing)...also he is a child and doesnt have control or conscious intent to do these things

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Beyonder
[B]...kinda stupid like a geeky scientist who gains powers over molecules through a cosmic rift, huh? And became more powerful than the Cube Beings (Kubik, Kosmos, etc.). I don't seem to remember his name, do you Molecule man? 😛

Owen Reece was not a geeky scientist he was just a nerd working at the atomic plant. And his powers is from the omnipotent cosmic cubes and without restrictions and limitations from the users makes them equal to IG stated by Mephisto. Yeah he can easily beat Beyonder
😆

makes who equal to IG??

The cubes themselves are in fact as powerful as the IGs, but only if one removes the limitation put upon them. Logic would dictate that the emerged beings, from the cubes, would be equal to the Gems, since they can take the limitations off of themselves. Since the Molecule is human he has the potential to evolve. He revealed how far he has evolved in FF annual 27. He is now more powerful than he was in the Secret Wars affair. He is also now more powerful than any of the evolved cosmic cubes like Kubik, Kosmos, and them. So because he is human maybe he can take of the restrictions and become as powerful as IG
😮‍💨

No, that's not good writing because the cost is always compromised once they make an excuse to fix the tragedy. Having a 2 year old who can't even feed himself powerful enough to create pocket universes to send the heroes who 'died' completely destroys the integrity of the story. Obviously I don't think it best to leave such major heroes as the Fantastic Four and the Avengers dead, but you don't kill them off in the first place. You kill off characters that the Marvel Universe can live without, and you leave them dead. Yes I realize this is a comic universe but every time I read about a hero or villain coming back from the dead, it does two things:

1. hurts the value of the story in which the character died.

2. and most importantly, decreases the friggin' value of the comic in which the character died! I'm trying to make some money here people!

wrathofachilles No, that's not good writing because the cost is always compromised once they make an excuse to fix the tragedy. Having a 2 year old who can't even feed himself powerful enough to create pocket universes to send the heroes who 'died' completely destroys the integrity of the story. Obviously I don't think it best to leave such major heroes as the Fantastic Four and the Avengers dead, but you don't kill them off in the first place. You kill off characters that the Marvel Universe can live without, and you leave them dead. Yes I realize this is a comic universe but every time I read about a hero or villain coming back from the dead, it does two things:

1. hurts the value of the story in which the character died.

2. and most importantly, decreases the friggin' value of the comic in which the character died! I'm trying to make some money here people!

Franklin is a supporting character, don't put much emphasis on him and story. And it's not like he's going around and kicking everybodies butt all over the place, he's not kill gods and such. Additionally, if mortals like X-Man, Molecule Man, the Ancient One, etc. can rise to that level, I don't see a problem with Franklin. Especially since he's not the main character of the story.

Molecule man

The cubes themselves are in fact as powerful as the IGs, but only if one removes the limitation put upon them. Logic would dictate that the emerged beings, from the cubes, would be equal to the Gems, since they can take the limitations off of themselves. Since the Molecule is human he has the potential to evolve. He revealed how far he has evolved in FF annual 27. He is now more powerful than he was in the Secret Wars affair. He is also now more powerful than any of the evolved cosmic cubes like Kubik, Kosmos, and them. So because he is human maybe he can take of the restrictions and become as powerful as IG

A nerd is STILL a mortal. As for the cubes being equal to the Infinity Gems, individually maybe. The Infinity Gauntlet, however, surpasses any one cube. You need about five cubes to put Eternity down, the Infinity Gauntlet did the same, however, put down a rogue of others like the two Celestials, Galactus, Love, Hate, Chaos, Order, Chronos, etc. A cube being is still NOT equal to ALL FIVE GEMS IN UNISON or FIVE COSMIC CUBES.

As for your remark about Oween Reece being more powerful then the Beyonder, 😆 true if you're talking about the Post-Reconned Beyonder. If it was current Molecule Man Vs. Pre-Reconnned Beyonder, Molecule Man would get his face rearranged into his ass.

again...molecule man and Beyonder are part of one power source...