Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Ok, BUT if you kill a person on a death row, you are commiting a murder, not justice!
Then in your own words what is "justice"
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Are you saying that it is ok, to go a murder a helpeless human being, because a prisoner on a death row, to be killed is a helpless, person, waiting to die! What can be more cruel that that.
All I'm saying that a if murderer that has been trial and found guilty of Maliciously killing a person with enough evidence. Then it should be sentence to life in prison. If he gets paroled, and kills again. Then that person should be executed. Kills once, life in prison. Kills twice or a third time....execute the person.
When you say "helpless being" you also have to remenber the victims of crime. Yes, those people that are death, and cannot longer have justice.
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
If you say that eye for an eye is right way to go about it, then a family member or a friend of a person on a death row has as much right to kill the person who executed him or sent him on a death row as they did to kill him.
The eye for an eye used to be a law for ancient times. Nowadays we have systems of law that determine whether a criminal should be or should not executed. I don't consider today's laws an eye for eye. If we do not aprove of the system then there are ways to change it. Until then we are a part of it.
Well...then im sure you also know that 50% of people on death row in America are black! Hmm...yeah, serving justice...
Eye for an eye was there in ancient times. I believe we have advanced beyond that dont you?
Justice is there to bring justice on those who have broken the law, not BRING REVENGE upon them.
You read a lot, do you not? Have you read the play by Euripides 'Electra' and 'Orestis'. This was written thousnds of yeas ago, when Greeks first recognised the wrongness of one life for another...
Read those two plays by Euripides.
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Well...then im sure you also know that 50% of people on death row in America are black! Hmm...yeah, serving justice...
That would be a race issue. Not only African Americans, but also Hispanic, Asian, and other minorities. Still a good point.
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Eye for an eye was there in ancient times. I believe we have advanced beyond that dont you?
Yes and no. Humans will always be humans with the same dilemas as in the past, and most likely in the future.
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Justice is there to bring justice on those who have broken the law, not BRING REVENGE upon them.
Milla, from my perspective "Justice" means the laws of the state. Members of the state are subject to these laws. Foreigners belong in a set differently in laws. If I'm in London, and commit a crime I will be punish according to the law of the land. Same here in the US, if I broke the law I have be punish.
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
You read a lot, do you not? Have you read the play by Euripides 'Electra' and 'Orestis'. This was written thousnds of yeas ago, when Greeks first recognised the wrongness of one life for another...
Read those two plays by Euripides.
I love to read! I'm familiar with Euripides, but I admit that I'm not acquitent with his writings. I base my ideas from Socrates. He was executed for his beliefs (yes I know is very ironic) Also he was a firm beliver of the "State and the laws of the State" A good citizen in order to maintain the safety of the state. Must follow the rules of the state. When the state changes I too must change with the state. Because I'm just like any other citizen which belongs in the state, and the state is made by the people. The laws are also made by the people.
I think if someone has murdered someone, then they should also die, ( A life for a life)
Child abusers should be hanged in my opinion, i work with children, and hate to think of someone doing things to a child, it's unbearable to think about to be honest
😘
Rapists etc should be put away for ruining a life.
(just a note, Euripides is older than Socrates..by almost 20 years, his works were being published when Socrates was only young)
My point with racial issue youve totally missed. You talk about brining justice, killing people on death row, when people on death row have been racialy discriminaded against.
You do NOT have flawless system which catches all the right killers and execute them, because if you believe that all the people on death row right now are all guilty or have deserved a death row you are higly mistaken.
Black man will get the harsher sentance for killing a white man than other way arround.
How can state decide who is to die and who isnt, who or what gives them that right? What gives the right to play god?
Do you not find it moraly wrong?
A highly permissive society such as our own must find ways to reinforce a canon of acceptable conduct. Some acts must be recognized as evil in themselves
Capital punishment is no answer to the major challenges we face as a society. Moreover, it has not proven to be a deterrent to violent crime, it exploits the poor. This is not surprising, as recent high profile cases amply demonstrate. A well paid, high powered defense team can make all the difference.
We do not need quick fixes like capital punishment, however. We need the patience to seek out answers to more profound questions, and the will to rewrite our cultural script.
We must not allow ourselves to be caught up in the spiral of violence. Violence begets violence. Capital punishment is really no answer.
It is WRONG!
Most violence stems from ignorance. I think we need more programs designed to help criminals instead of punish them. They need to be taught and they need to understand that what they do is wrong. Where I work in Salinas, there are many hispanic gangs and some of these kids have never seen the ocean which is only 25 minutes away! They are ignorant, poor, they live in a dangerous community and they don't grow up knowing what else is out there. If we only punish criminals and leave them alone to die, where is the evolution of thought involved in that? How will we ever foster a positive change? I learned of one program where violent offenders have to offer their victim their service of some sort, to make up for the crime. Sometimes the victims refuse to even give the criminal a chance, but that is also part of the learning experience. Other victims will work with the person who assulted them and many times it has led to them forgiving the criminal and actually created a positive relationship between the two.
😬
What are your opinions on the hanging of Derek Bentley, one of the last people to suffer the death penalty in the UK?
He shouted "Let him have it, Chris" to his mate who was holding a gun at a police officer who was trying to talk him down. I belive that he meant Let him have the gun not shoot him, but the jury believed he enticed, and he was put on death row. There was a public outcry! Derek was 19 though was later revealed he had a mental age of 11. His friend Chris Craig who shot the cop was only 16 and was put in prison.
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
(just a note, Euripides is older than Socrates..by almost 20 years, his works were being published when Socrates was only young)
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
(My point with racial issue youve totally missed. You talk about brining justice, killing people on death row, when people on death row have been racialy discriminaded against.
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
because if you believe that all the people on death row right now are all guilty or have deserved a death row you are higly mistaken.
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Black man will get the harsher sentance for killing a white man than other way arround.
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
How can state decide who is to die and who isnt, who or what gives them that right? What gives the right to play god?Do you not find it moraly wrong?
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
We must not allow ourselves to be caught up in the spiral of violence. Violence begets violence. Capital punishment is really no answer.It is WRONG!
Originally posted by WindDancer
I know is just a note, but what is point of saying Socrates was born after Euripidies? Older means wiser?
I was talking about his works, and when they were written, please go back and look at what i brought up.
I was pointing out what ideas existed before Socrates was even self aware.
On the rest of your argument, i personaly dont understand it. You left out many of the points i reaised, you did it in the reply before that as well, like the way the poor are exploited more...
All your arguments are ''they should be killed'' and there is no ''because this this and this''
Comment on this...
A highly permissive society such as our own must find ways to reinforce a canon of acceptable conduct. Some acts must be recognized as evil in themselves
Capital punishment is no answer to the major challenges we face as a society. Moreover, it has not proven to be a deterrent to violent crime, it exploits the poor. This is not surprising, as recent high profile cases amply demonstrate. A well paid, high powered defense team can make all the difference.
We do not need quick fixes like capital punishment, however. We need the patience to seek out answers to more profound questions, and the will to rewrite our cultural script.
We must not allow ourselves to be caught up in the spiral of violence. Violence begets violence. Capital punishment is really no answer.
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
I was talking about his works, and when they were written, please go back and look at what i brought up.
I was pointing out what ideas existed before Socrates was even self aware.
On the rest of your argument, i personaly dont understand it. You left out many of the points i reaised, you did it in the reply before that as well, like the way the poor are exploited more...
All your arguments are ''they should be killed'' and there is no ''because this this and this''
Okay I will go back and recheck it. What I'm saying is that people like judges, jurors, prosecutors study the case, and once they have found enough evidence the judge determines whether the criminal should be executed or not.
Well, killing off someone, like the people described in the first post in this threa, who are obviously evil and don't care for any kind of morality, is the only way to ensure they will never hurt another human being again.
People like this, the most extreme case, serve no purpose to humanity, other then a negative purpose, just hurting, raping and destroying other human beings. We don't need people like that in the world.
WIndDancer> But what does the death-penalty accomplish in your opinion? Does it unmake the crime? Does it make life easier for the victims? What exactly does it do in your opinion?
You say child-molestation should be punished by murder. A life has been ruined, so you want to take a life. Okay. How do you want to punish robbery?
And it doesn't matter what kid of legal-beagle you toss at me. The judge represents the state? Well, if not everyone agrees with the death-penalty he doesn't. And a state is a human social and economic invention. Murder is STILL murder. No matter WHAT you call it.
"Eye for an eye"? Either you deem something wrong or not. If you think stealing is wrong, would you then go and steal from someone who stole from you. That is just so hypocritical!
What do you mean "humans will always be humans"? Do you think we haven't changed over the millions of years our species has existed. Do not mistake current problems and issues with some peculiar inbuilt flaw of humanity. Humans are actually sociable creatures And 99,9999999999 % of us have NO say in what happens in the world - democracy or not.
eleveninches> But if murder is AGAINST the law, then the state, which upholds the law, should not break its OWN laws by killing people, no? Innocent is innocent of the crime convicted of. Din't give me that "oh, those innocent people on death-row probably had it coming anyways." You are aware, that many innocent people on deathrow in the US have been killed?
Societies have been using the death penalty for thousands of years and society as a whole has progressed. Who are all of you to say that the death penalty is wrong? The laws in the United States are more than fair and reasonable. It's not like you get the death penalty for j-walking...you get it for multiple murders. If you are responsible for the intrusion of several peoples human rights...then inturn your human rights should be intruded also.
I don't go around killing people because of things just like the death penalty. So IMO it servers its purpose.