Anakin's midiclorians.

This is a silly topic to argue about. I told you I was scraping the bottom.

You know what though? I am wrong about Anakin/Vader force power. Sorry, PVS

George Lucas specifies in the ESB commentary that Vader has lost a lot of his power in the Force due to becoming half-machine. There you go. He also says, interestingly, that were it not for this, Anakin could have unseated the Emperor solo. Oooh... but it's not due to losing midichlorians, it is due to him losing his soul.

But you are still wrong about the midichlorians being in the ground and all that, and your quotes don;t cahnge a darn thing. They are symbiotic with living things, is all that says, and they still are not the Force in of themselves, so where the Force is is still not down to them! The reaming is for mis-reading the very lines you are quoting. Not did I say at any point that you said that non-Jedi use the Force. You said the midi-chlorians situation changes where the Force is; it does not, it only changes how living things are aware of its existence.

well that's not exactly true...

Nicos Marr was a Jedi being trained by Luke Skywalker after the whole trilogy and whatnot in EU...his body was destroyed but they managed to transfer his mind into an droid's body...and in the end he could still control the Force, like 5 minutes before he died.

EDIT: it wasnt really his REAL brain either...i guess you can call it his "soul"

Never mind what the EU says.

oh. ok then, forget what i said. you become weaker in the Force as you lose your body.

If there are still living cells in an organism, the midichlorians still reside in those cells and thus Vader can still force choke people from long distances and beat ass.
VADER!

anakin had a higher count than yoda in TPM and he was just a small kid. When he grew, he didnt gain more, or else when he reaches 6' or watever for vader he would be invincible. and he wasnt a forceuser when he was a kid, so midichlorians dont just make you into a jedi instantly.

id say vader lost some of his power during the rehabilitation process, if palpatine uses the darkside to help heal him. the duel would have cost anakin everything and all that is left is dark side. remeber yoda said that the darkside is not stronger than the light? so when anakin turns to the darkside, he loses some of his power.

I don't think Anakin ever lost any power of the force, he continuously grew in the power of it until he died. He lost the power to think for himself.

vader has killed off many jedi knights during the purge but if he continually grew, then by ESB, he should have easily killed off luke, but luke was just a newbie forceuser and managed to smack vader in the shoulder. also, in ROTJ, vader should have been stronger again, but when luke fights, he easily beats vader.

Well you have to consider the fact that the lightside of the force only resided in Yoda and Luke at the time of ESB. The very will of the force is for the Sith to be destroyed and that's why Luke eventually becomes more powerful than Anakin.
That and Vader didn't want to kill Anakin, he was toying with him, trying to turn him to the darkside so they could destroy Palpatine. He does ask him to join him in doing so.

I would have to agree with PVS about Vader being less powerful with the Force as a result of his lava bath, but still remaining the most powerful Jedi ever and his midichlorian logic/explanation !!!

The Force is in all living things and around all non living things, without the Force, there is no life !!! Chi is a good example of what the Force is like in real life ! Chi is inside all of us and it's all around us, yet few of us feel it and learn how to manipulate it !!! Also Chi has positive and negative sides to it and your emotions affect it !

Mist, I would have to disagree about the part where you say that Vader is weaker because he went to the Dark Side ! Yoda may say to Luke that the Dark Side isn't stronger than the Light, however Lucas says in the audio commentary of AOTC that the Dark Side is indeed more powerful !

Darth Nefarus, how does Luke eventually become more powerful than Vader ? Is it his destiny to destroy the Sith or was he getting fried by Palpatine and pleading for his father to help him ? It is the will of the Force for the Sith to be destroyed, but it is not Luke's destiny to destroy them, it is the Chosen One's aka Anakin !!! Luke did however help Anakin see the Light !!! 😉

NOTE: Sorry about all the exclamation marks, no offence meant to anyone, it's simply my style of writing and yes PVS, I talk the way I write !!! lol

I argue the will of the force is with Luke, by the way Luke abandon's his hatred, and believes the force will save him.
I always assumed Luke to be more powerful by how quickly he became aware of his abilities.

Creatures that can resist the force and the will of the force...Watto's species etc...

Does that mean they have some kind of anti midichlorian thing going on or are they immune to its effect? Has that ever been explained anywhere? Just how do they block the force, and subliminaly at that, they don't even have to try!?

Originally posted by queeq
The midi count was done based on a drop of blood. It says more about the intensity of those midi-buggers than of the absolute quantity.

ooh that is a great point!

Originally posted by Darth_Nefarus
I don't think Anakin ever lost any power of the force, he continuously grew in the power of it until he died. He lost the power to think for himself.

Um, I'm sorry, but the conceding point I made above is that George Lucas directly says that Anakin DOES lose a load of his power in the force when he gets his injuries.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
But you are still wrong about the midichlorians being in the ground and all that, and your quotes don;t cahnge a darn thing. They are symbiotic with living things, is all that says, and they still are not the Force in of themselves, so where the Force is is still not down to them! The reaming is for mis-reading the very lines you are quoting. Not did I say at any point that you said that non-Jedi use the Force. You said the midi-chlorians situation changes where the Force is; it does not, it only changes how living things are aware of its existence.

Ush, life needs the force to exist, the force needs life to exist.

Jedi/Sith have knowledge of the force, meaning they can manipulate this energy, and bend it to their will. but i think the force still exhists in all living things.

"life creates it (the force) makes it grow"
-not just force users, LIFE. all life gives energy to the field. from an all powerful jedi to a blade of grass. as DeepHatred pointed out, its similar to the eastern philosophy of "chi", life force in all things living. in othere words: a lifeform does not need knowledge of the force or even a conscience to contribute to it, and feed the "energy field".

"Without the midichlorians life could not exist"
look, from the quotes, we know for a fact:
1-life cannot exist without the midis.
2-without life, there is no force.

is it inconceivable that the force dwells in all living things, since those living things are what create it?

also, quigon states that without the midis they would have no knowledge of the force. but how should that be taken?
does that mean that the only purpose they serve is to give jedi their knowlege of the force?
i think he simply means that without a high count of midi's you are just an average lifeform and not able to USE the force, however you are still a part of it.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
And your response to queeq's reply was nonsensical; he was caliming that only quantity per cell was important;

I wasn't really claiming that. I was just wondering if Force sensitivity was maybe based on midi-quantitiy per cell instead of absolute quantity. If it was it wouldn't matter how many limbs Anakin would lose...
Midi's suck to debate about and I sure hope we don't hear about them in ROTS....

Originally posted by PVS
Ush, life needs the force to exist, the force needs life to exist.

Jedi/Sith have knowledge of the force, meaning they can manipulate this energy, and bend it to their will. but i think the force still exhists in all living things.

"life creates it (the force) makes it grow"
-not just force users, LIFE. all life gives energy to the field. from an all powerful jedi to a blade of grass. as DeepHatred pointed out, its similar to the eastern philosophy of "chi", life force in all things living. in othere words: a lifeform does not need knowledge of the force or even a conscience to contribute to it, and feed the "energy field".

"Without the midichlorians life could not exist"
look, from the quotes, we know for a fact:
1-life cannot exist without the midis.
2-without life, there is no force.

is it inconceivable that the force dwells in all living things, since those living things are what create it?

also, quigon states that without the midis they would have no knowledge of the force. but how should that be taken?
does that mean that the only purpose they serve is to give jedi their knowlege of the force?
i think he simply means that without a high count of midi's you are just an average lifeform and not able to USE the force, however you are still a part of it.

That's simply a re-affirmation of symbiosis; if the midi's were not there, people would not be aware the Force existed, is all.

And you are pointing out complete irrelevancies to anything I said. I made the one factual point- that the midichlorians, which are all about how we are aware of the Force and nothing else, make absolutely no difference at all to what Obi-Wan and Yoda say in the OT about the Force itself. You made out that it needed to be re-examined because of the midis. It does not.

I agree with Ush on this one.

Originally posted by queeq
I wasn't really claiming that. I was just wondering if Force sensitivity was maybe based on midi-quantitiy per cell instead of absolute quantity. If it was it wouldn't matter how many limbs Anakin would lose...
Midi's suck to debate about and I sure hope we don't hear about them in ROTS....

agreed.
the only purpose to add midis to the plot was to illustrate his power.
what sucks though, is that we would have already grasped this by knowing
he was conceived by the force, and was the chosen one.

did we all really need a star wars biology lesson?
(rolls up newspaper) BAD LUCAS!!! BAD!!! *smack*