Originally posted by Wanderer259
Bane was smart about it - he didn't just jump into a fight with Batman, pick him up, and snap his spine. Bane let the entirety of Arkham Asylum's inmates loose into the city, forcing Batman to go into immediate action to capture them all again. After being successful, he was severely worn down. This is when Bane attacked him, thrashed him, and then broke him.
Yes Bane is tactical, and great at the waiting game, but he was facing an opponent more limber, faster,attentive(debateable), and he had no choice. Spiderman has the strength on his side as well, regardless Batman would a hard time simply throwing this guy around, who could escape the comparitively weak grip.
Originally posted by Wanderer259
He is, but the fact that he's superhuman doesn't make him automatically beyond a mere human's reach (Spider-Man is still a lower-end superhuman). Superhuman only means it's beyond a normal human's physical limitations - it doesn't mean that it cannot be trumped by something lesser than itself. How does Spider-Man survive against the Hulk when he's much weaker and less durable than he? The same logic applies to Batman. Spider-Man is not incapable of being tagged by non-superhumans, and if Batman has a plan (like he usually does), he can maximize his opportunity to whip out some sort of counter-joint (snap Peter's wrist), pressure point (cause enough pain to buckle Peter's knees), or just plain box his ears to disorient him and his equilibrium (he won't be nearly as maneuverable without it).
Yes, we all can do superhuman feats, and a dumb superhuman,(Rhino) could be dwarfed even by robin, but spiderman has not only strength advantage, he has the speed, and difficulty hit that simply makes batman obsolete in a head to head decision, seeing as he doesn't know him, there is a chance he would try regardlss. I don't see him with the sufficient strengt to fight the leverage for an arm pressure point, but the ears, kidneys, sternum, thigh, bicep, tricep, side neck, and these will be open, problem is spidey has a great resilience to strength in his own right , though he is a low level superhuman, but characters like, he,Slade,and Bats, are greatest with the mind weapons, I could, see that as mroe reasonable, but spidey halfway hitting these spots at high velocity is simply fatal, or downright incapacitating.
Originally posted by Wanderer259
You're correct here. Anyone who says that Batman is building any weapons beyond his simpler ones (batarangs don't require an engineering degree, I'm sure) is giving him far too much credit. But as for everyone saying he's smarter than Spidey, he is where it counts in a fight; being more knowledgeable about biophysics and chemistry will only take you so far in a match unless they challenge each other to an academics stand-off.
Spidermans and bats knowledge, are used for different opponents, (venom, clayface, carnage) but overall the scientific knowledge is what has kept spiderman alive, and the Justice league I might add.
Originally posted by Wanderer259I still say Spider-Man wins at least half of the time, but c'mon, it's not as simple as all that.
I dont think he'll let spiderman win, which means he wont be getting at close range, slade yes, batman no, he has a much poorer chance against the webhead.
Yes Bane is tactical, and great at the waiting game, but he was facing an opponent more limber, faster,attentive(debateable), and he had no choice. Spiderman has the strength on his side as well, regardless Batman would a hard time simply throwing this guy around, who could escape the comparitively weak grip.
My point was that their example was bad. Batman wouldn't necessarily lose grip on Spidey too easily, not if he does what he needs to do immediately (which he will).
Just pointing out, Spidey's maneuverability is not as great an advantage against Batman as it is the Hulk. Being smaller, Batman can reorient himself easier.
Spidermans and bats knowledge, are used for different opponents, (venom, clayface, carnage) but overall the scientific knowledge is what has kept spiderman alive, and the Justice league I might add.
I've seen more examples of Batman's ability to problem solve helping out more than his knowledge of biophysics.
Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
You realize this isn't superpowers still, and writing is writing, the point is that this battle has no prep time, and that spiderman has gone much farther with what he has, dealing with symboites and such.Spiderman has used sufficicent gadgets when facing torch and others many times.
Just because batman has all them gadgets does not mean that he never has to improvices. Like the time he used foil paper to find his way through spell binder's illusion.
Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
Like you never misspell anything, besides you don't realize my point, a high powered rifle penetrates armor no problem, if your ribs were broken it was from a shotgun blast.Batman has gotten it handed to him by a thug, using logic, spiderman can kill him, he is faster as well.
Sure but that is why they have armors for high powered rifle. Listen haveing a broken rib from shot gun blast or any powerful or less power rifle is still better than being dead. Don't you agree....
Batman has gotten his ass handed to him by common thugs...sure but lets not forget spiderman missgivings with the same common thugs. Who have gotten a drop on spiderman as well. Between batman and Spiderman, spiderman has it bad because he is the one with the spider sense and the superhuman strength.
Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
It isn't about skill,or Batman couldve dont it, spiderman is a more experienced fighter than even batman, I don't think you read much spiderman, he swung adn picked up a car with one arm, knoks venom 20 yards, harder than the forced the same venom used to toss a semitrailer. Using the armor is a fanboy escuse, sense Bane has caused batman trouble, so it defies logic that batman would be taking punches from spiderman, skill isnt' getting that armor ripped, do you know your facts, if not learn them.
Spiderman more experienced figher keep telling your self that. Spiderman may have started fighting crime first but experience falls to batman because he matured faster as it showed with each batman new enemy encounter and batman knew what he was facing and how to handle more quickly while spiderman was still discovering his new found power. Yes....Bane beat batman after making batman to capture his entire rogue's gallery, batman was physically ill, and ontop of that bane figured batman's identity. All this add up to bane winning and breaking batman's back.
Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
Its the only thing that makes sense here, which is what I'm doing, or do you think you Bruce Lee can go beat up an elephant.
Yes Bruce Lee will be able to beat an elephant by leading the animal towards a cliff or cavern or just use a gun. There is a reason why humans are ontop of the food chain in the animal kingdom because we play by our rules not theirs. We learned from since the stone age that man can not compeat with his animal neighbors physically that is why they created weapons to their strength....see
Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
You're not rolling with these punches, don't u understand??? Its' a person that can press 300000 lbs hitting you at the velocity and speed of 300 to 400 mph easily,(from the start speed of the punches which would be in the first few miliseconds.)Spiderman could punch him 10 times in 2 seconds, thus you are wrong plain and simple, and your argument is absurd, it even sounds like you are agreeing with me, and just want to argue for its own sake.
Did you see my pic....here let me put it again for you....http://img68.exs.cx/img68/8476/general1.jpg See this is batman rolling with the punches as stated before. Oh wait I am letting the writers who write the stuff write for me aren't I...Please
Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
Spiderman webbed up wolverine , do you seriously think he cant snatch that shield, or yank it from him, plus cap uses it as a projectile, this is you assumption, notice the word "ass" in there, yeah, go figure.
Spiderman can snatch the shield but it is still a 100 to 1. Captain america already knows how the spidersense work and if that shield is leaving his hand it is going to be a distraction. Well you notice the word assumption this is the full word and not just "ass."
Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
OK you're somewhat reasonable, I've said that about 60pages ago, yet you spent so many paragraphs arguing why this is so. What was the point.
The point is that you are being to see the light the light because my argument has never changed....scary isn't it....
Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
Good for you but, I simplly disagree.
To each his or her own...ain't this what makes the world go round
Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
No against a human or someone within your league strength is or isn't, I fight and it depends, in some aspects, strength is the key factor in a fight,(power)
Strength for me is not obsolete it is how you use it that counts, more skill, mean more training, mean more experience...see
Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
Stronger the muscles in a limb the faster it moves, faster and more often a person will land a punch, and the stronger the muscle fiber, now power in the specific definition.
So do you expect does heavy weight lifters or Olympic weight lifter to have faster reflexes than a light weight lifter or Olympic weight lifter?
Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
Its better to use 60% of your strength for longer periods of time and get it up faster,than to use 90% and wear out, thus spidermans 10,20,30,40,50, and 60% is hitting harder than batmans anyway, it batman were to do an attack that hard, it would counter his leverage, making him open.
Skill my friend, experience, training now you see what I am saying about strength not being the main factor. You should know that batman never attacks head on...he moves around you. Besides batman is a defensive fighter.
Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
A "skilled" fighter knows not to use full strength and rely on speed and concentration and application, during a fight. Batman using a minute amount of his strength wont hurt spiderman.
This is why batman uses gadgets because he knows he cannot hurt the people he fights with his hands.
Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
But his gadgers will, that is why he has them. to even the world of the superpowered. and don't forget that batman cheats. Couple this with the speed, agility, perception, and precognitive senses, batman is not only fighting a stronger opponent,but one he'lll have a hard time hitting, Batman vs. Slade anyone?
ahhhh...for your information batman did not have a hard time hitting slade in both their encounters...and besides they are one to one.
Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
Regardless a person who takes classes doesn't always wint the fight aagainst aperson who has fought more and won more, sometimes the people more skilled havent fought before, and don't know what to do in certain situations, or to keeep their calm, when someone doesn't do their honor code, spidermans fighting skill is great.
Ok following your advice I here say....
Tell this to the monks in them mountains. They are are sure to laugh in your face...even though you won't see it.
But as usual you are always half true...
Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
So has Spiderman, and spiderman can take more damage than batman and his suit, perhaps,, but spidemran faces venom, a creature stronger than he is, and dampens his spider sense, spidemrn is one of the most versatile superheroes to date, weapons and gadgets do so much.
That is correct perhaps...spiderman is one of the most versatile superheros to date, weapons and gadgets do so much but batman has more gadgets in which he can change his approach as to how he want to beat someone. And gadgets not pulling their full weight I beg to differ encase you haven't notice those gadgets have saved batman more often than not...
Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
But since this is "a" fight, and you said spiderman wins the first 5, then spiderman takes this home by your word and mine.
I could not give batman the first fight, because it means that spiderman is going to lose the next 9 matches.🙂 This is why I gave spiderman the first five. If this means spiderman wins then he wins but just know my reasoning.🙂
Originally posted by lifeisaglich
Just because batman has all them gadgets does not mean that he never has to improvices. Like the time he used foil paper to find his way through spell binder's illusion.
Soooooooooooooooooooooooo????
Originally posted by lifeisaglich
Sure but that is why they have armors for high powered rifle. Listen haveing a broken rib from shot gun blast or any powerful or less power rifle is still better than being dead. Don't you agree....
People can take weeks to die from certain wounds in the abdomen area or around there, its extremely painful.
Originally posted by lifeisaglich
Batman has gotten his ass handed to him by common thugs...sure but lets not forget spiderman missgivings with the same common thugs. Who have gotten a drop on spiderman as well. Between batman and Spiderman, spiderman has it bad because he is the one with the spider sense and the superhuman strength.
No, spiderman usually gets downplayed, he took the sinister six, and embarrased the xmen and ff, but that there shows that he has the advantage.
Originally posted by lifeisaglich
Spiderman more experienced figher keep telling your self that. Spiderman may have started fighting crime first but experience falls to batman because he matured faster as it showed with each batman new enemy encounter and batman knew what he was facing and how to handle more quickly while spiderman was still discovering his new found power. Yes....Bane beat batman after making batman to capture his entire rogue's gallery, batman was physically ill, and ontop of that bane figured batman's identity. All this add up to bane winning and breaking batman's back.
Batman hasn't matured faster, spidey didn't ask for his powers, and went throught the death of his parents, friends and so much more than, rich batman has , who lost his parents, and fights for vengeance. Spiderman has a responsibility and he didn't ask for those powers but he uses more effort to cause less damage to his foes, than batman and his gadgets, odd, huh?
Originally posted by lifeisaglich
Yes Bruce Lee will be able to beat an elephant by leading the animal towards a cliff or cavern or just use a gun. There is a reason why humans are ontop of the food chain in the animal kingdom because we play by our rules not theirs. We learned from since the stone age that man can not compeat with his animal neighbors physically that is why they created weapons to their strength....see
I agree, but do you see that bruce lee isn't beating something with such a physical advantage in hand to hand combat, you can jump the point but you know I'm right.
Originally posted by lifeisaglich
Did you see my pic....here let me put it again for you....http://img68.exs.cx/img68/8476/general1.jpg See this is batman rolling with the punches as stated before. Oh wait I am letting the writers who write the stuff write for me aren't I...Please
Explain how he's rolling 300-400mph starting velocity at 30000 pounds, like other fanboys you cant so you use bias pics.
Originally posted by lifeisaglich
Spiderman can snatch the shield but it is still a 100 to 1. Captain america already knows how the spidersense work and if that shield is leaving his hand it is going to be a distraction. Well you notice the word assumption this is the full word and not just "ass."
Web cap up and slam him, more than one way to skin a cat.
No the saying is don't assume. You make an A-S-S, out of U-M-E, mostly you though. 😮💨
Originally posted by lifeisaglich
The point is that you are being to see the light the light because my argument has never changed....scary isn't it....To each his or her own...ain't this what makes the world go round
Why do you write so many disagreements to agree, you've changed your tune about 10 times, I'm always consistant, seeing you cant prove die hard facts, and logic wrong.
Originally posted by lifeisaglich
Strength for me is not obsolete it is how you use it that counts, more skill, mean more training, mean more experience...see
I've been over this, what leads you to belive that batman can beat spidey with his hands, spiderman is harder to defend against, and has been a hero longer, this makes no sense.
Originally posted by lifeisaglich
So do you expect does heavy weight lifters or Olympic weight lifter to have faster reflexes than a light weight lifter or Olympic weight lifter?
You are agreeing with me again, normal humans have these limits, Spiderman gets them all. Greater flexibility, strength, speed, whatever, you can think of, besides intelligence which is a close match.
Originally posted by lifeisaglich
Skill my friend, experience, training now you see what I am saying about strength not being the main factor. You should know that batman never attacks head on...he moves around you. Besides batman is a defensive fighter.
Exactly much opposite to wolverine, experience comes with wisdom. I would hope that he has enough wisdom to not attack spidey head to head, but he doesn't know of him, either way I'm right.
Originally posted by lifeisaglich
This is why batman uses gadgets because he knows he cannot hurt the people he fights with his hands.
You just contradicted your previous statement and confirmed what I said like 60 pages ago.🙂
Originally posted by lifeisaglich
ahhhh...for your information batman did not have a hard time hitting slade in both their encounters...and besides they are one to one.
Slade would whoop batman right out, only a fanboy would believe otherwise.
Originally posted by lifeisaglich
Tell this to the monks in them mountains. They are are sure to laugh in your face...even though you won't see it.But as usual you are always half true...
Yep and those monks have mastered application, focus, and wisdom, unlike those in soccermom dojo's who've never fought, but are arrogant, I know about fighting myself. Do you think a small child thats a yellow belt, will beat a 250 pound grown man, trying to sustain him wiht longer reach and such.
You are in denial, your argument is wrong plain and simple thus you are absurd, don't bother voicing your opinion with no logic, let wanderer do the thinking here.................
Originally posted by lifeisaglich
That is correct perhaps...spiderman is one of the most versatile superheros to date, weapons and gadgets do so much but batman has more gadgets in which he can change his approach as to how he want to beat someone. And gadgets not pulling their full weight I beg to differ encase you haven't notice those gadgets have saved batman more often than not...
I didn't say they wouldn't work, but in this match batman isn't perfect like in those books.
Originally posted by lifeisaglich
I could not give batman the first fight, because it means that spiderman is going to lose the next 9 matches.🙂 This is why I gave spiderman the first five. If this means spiderman wins then he wins but just know my reasoning.🙂
Whatever, fanboy logic.
Originally posted by Wanderer259
Bane was smart about it - he didn't just jump into a fight with Batman, pick him up, and snap his spine. Bane let the entirety of Arkham Asylum's inmates loose into the city, forcing Batman to go into immediate action to capture them all again. After being successful, he was severely worn down. This is when Bane attacked him, thrashed him, and then broke him.
First off, yay. Someone who has a little logic and reasoning behind their arguments. Secondly I gave Bane as an example that Batman can be defeated, which some refuse to accept. Personally I don't think Bane comes anywhere near Spider-Man when it comes to intelligence both in and out of a fight. So logically if Bane can defeat Batman, someone smarter, stronger, faster, more agile, more durable, more ranged than Bane like Spider-Man can defeat Batman.
Originally posted by Wanderer259
He is, but the fact that he's superhuman doesn't make him automatically beyond a mere human's reach (Spider-Man is still a lower-end superhuman). Superhuman only means it's beyond a normal human's physical limitations - it doesn't mean that it cannot be trumped by something lesser than itself. How does Spider-Man survive against the Hulk when he's much weaker and less durable than he? The same logic applies to Batman. Spider-Man is not incapable of being tagged by non-superhumans, and if Batman has a plan (like he usually does), he can maximize his opportunity to whip out some sort of counter-joint (snap Peter's wrist), pressure point (cause enough pain to buckle Peter's knees), or just plain box his ears to disorient him and his equilibrium (he won't be nearly as maneuverable without it).
I agree that strength isn't everything but Spidey's strength does come into play. Batman at peak human physical fitness lifts for the sake of argument the same as Cap 800lbs, while Spidey lifts in excess of 10 tons. Spidey is also faster, more durable and more agile. Spidey has vertical mobility and range via his webs/wallcrawling that Batman can't match. There's also the wildcard of the Spider sense. If it was just a plain head to head fight then Batman has to work a lot harder just to knock Spider-Man out.
The ability of Batman to come up with a plan on the fly is his only real advantage, and I'd dispute that he's that much better at it than Peter (though I don't dispute that he may be better at it). Snapping Peter's wrist or boxing his ears, assumes that Spiderman is fool enough to let him, or that Batman can actually land the blows considering Spidey's enhanced speed and agility.
Originally posted by Wanderer259
You're correct here. Anyone who says that Batman is building any weapons beyond his simpler ones (batarangs don't require an engineering degree, I'm sure) is giving him far too much credit. But as for everyone saying he's smarter than Spidey, he is where it counts in a fight; being more knowledgeable about biophysics and chemistry will only take you so far in a match unless they challenge each other to an academics stand-off.I still say Spider-Man wins at least half of the time, but c'mon, it's not as simple as all that.
Spider-Man's probably as knowledgeable in a fight as Batman, he has been fighting crime since he was a teenager. Batman began as an adult. Batman had prior combat training, but as with any job you probably learn more and learn faster on-the-job than any prior training. I think it's been said before it's not how much you know it's how well you know it and how to use it. Batman having training in every form of martial arts, is irrelevant if Spider-Man knows how to use his own brand of fighting equally well or better.
Originally posted by CorderaMitchellSoooooooooooooooooooooooo????
Just to show you that batman is not all about High tech gadgets...🙂 is this such a bad thing.
Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
No, spiderman usually gets downplayed, he took the sinister six, and embarrased the xmen and ff, but that there shows that he has the advantage.
So your excuse is that spiderman gets down played but when it happens to batman who is physically better than those thugs is normal? So on a very very bad day this same thugs can jump on batman but what about when is ready and able to go?
Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
Batman hasn't matured faster, spidey didn't ask for his powers, and went throught the death of his parents, friends and so much more than, rich batman has , who lost his parents, and fights for vengeance. Spiderman has a responsibility and he didn't ask for those powers but he uses more effort to cause less damage to his foes, than batman and his gadgets, odd, huh?
Tell something batman is more mature, He made the decision to start fighting crime at age of 8. Saw the world in black and white...Spiderman did not ask for his powers…his gifts but batman made a conscious decision.
Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
I agree, but do you see that bruce lee isn't beating something with such a physical advantage in hand to hand combat, you can jump the point but you know I'm right.
I don't see batman beating any major powerhouses hand to hand either. We cannot compete with such creatures on a physical level. That is why we have tools to fight such creatures....can such a creature stand against a tank or Bradley assault vehicle of the same size and weight?...See this is us using our own power. So did I jump over the point🙂
Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
Explain how he's rolling 300-400mph starting velocity at 30000 pounds, like other fanboys you cant so you use bias pics.
Bias pics is this the best you can do...Bias pics they may be but it proves my point batman rolling with exceptional high punches.
This bias pic answers your question even better than I can…(doubting)….but…..
You are correct you see I do not see batman surviving such a punch even from my pic I gave you. I don't see this happening without so reason. Bad writing is a possibility but you also cannot deny the fact that batman is an accomplished martial artist and has learned to roll with them punches.
Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
Web cap up and slam him, more than one way to skin a cat.
More than one way to skin a cat...I agree...cut off the web with his energy shield fakes right and go left and putting spiderman is a considerable disadvantage.
Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
No the saying is don't assume. You make an A-S-S, out of U-M-E, mostly you though.
I understand now...I present facts and roll with it. That much you know its true.. by the way we are discussion fictional characters right??
Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
Why do you write so many disagreements to agree, you've changed your tune about 10 times, I'm always consistant, seeing you cant prove die hard facts, and logic wrong.
So what did I disagree only to agree with? 😕
I've been over this, what leads you to belive that batman can beat spidey with his hands, spiderman is harder to defend against, and has been a hero longer, this makes no sense.
Batman is the better fighter of the two but do I see batman winning a battle against spiderman with only his hands no..... 🙂
You are agreeing with me again, normal humans have these limits, Spiderman gets them all. Greater flexibility, strength, speed, whatever, you can think of, besides intelligence which is a close match.
You are correct....for I have always say everything mental books and the like I give to batman anything physical I give spiderman.
Exactly much opposite to wolverine, experience comes with wisdom. I would hope that he has enough wisdom to not attack spidey head to head, but he doesn't know of him, either way I'm right.
True but I don't think spiderman is going to start throwing high punches either. And batman is probably going to judge spiderman's strength as spiderman connects for the first time and keep his distance.
You just contradicted your previous statement and confirmed what I said like 60 pages ago.
You might have mistaken me with someone else because when I started I had batman using gadgets and not his hands. Any arguement you might have gotten from in batman fighting hand to hand with spiderman is because he is the better fighter and can probably deal in more pressure point shots.
Slade would whoop batman right out, only a fanboy would believe otherwise.
It has been stated other wise ....
Yep and those monks have mastered application, focus, and wisdom, unlike those in soccermom dojo's who've never fought, but are arrogant, I know about fighting myself. Do you think a small child thats a yellow belt, will beat a 250 pound grown man, trying to sustain him wiht longer reach and such.
No...No way...this aint happen but you see my points about the monks.
You are in denial, your argument is wrong plain and simple thus you are absurd, don't bother voicing your opinion with no logic, let wanderer do the thinking here.................
:laughing: so using what batman has done in his books and other places is wrong...?
I didn't say they wouldn't work, but in this match batman isn't perfect like in those books.
Yes...this is true but this does not mean that victory is out of his reach....🙂
Whatever, fanboy logic.
You inadverternly asked and I gave....where is the fanboy in that....😆
Batman is more trained, but not necessarily more skilled. Training can fly right out the window when you have to factor in the variability of fight scenarios. Spider-Man was never trained, as he enhanced physical attributes due to the spider bite, but that doesn't mean he's less skilled than Batman. Skill comes from experience, and Spider-Man has tons of experience, (I'd say) equal to that of Batman.
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Batman is more trained, but not necessarily more skilled. Training can fly right out the window when you have to factor in the variability of fight scenarios. Spider-Man was never trained, as he enhanced physical attributes due to the spider bite, but that doesn't mean he's less skilled than Batman. Skill comes from experience, and Spider-Man has tons of experience, (I'd say) equal to that of Batman.
From what you just explain I see them being equal in skill...but batman has had to fight around his villains never a head on attack he needs to learn fast if there is any chance for him to survive....and he fights such opponents on a regular basis...forcing him to think up new ways of putting them down...batman does not have the luxury of superhuman durability...in which he can walk away from every blow that hit's him...spiderman has the try and error mode of attack which is something batman cannot afford. I am not saying that spiderman has no skill but that when batman does things he has to do the right the first time and this happens more often than not...
30000 lbs = approx 13500 kgs
The force required to lift that is approximately 135000 N
To make my calculation easy I'm going to say Batman weights 100 kgs.
That means if Spider-Man lands a blow at max force Batman accelerates at about 1350 metres/second squared. That means in one second he has accerated to a speed of 1350m/s or about 4000 feet/second. Spider-Man lands a single punch to the face, Batman's getting decapitated.
