http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antihero
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_anti-heroes#Comic_books
Batman's an antihero. . . regardless of what you people think of him. . he's the first on that list even. 🤨
"seriously...spiderman couldn't punch off sin eaters head with multiple punches with the intent to kill no way he does it to a suited batman... "
ummmmmmm hahahahahahaha 😂 I guess you haven't read that comic either have you? spiderman definitely had the intent to kill....it's exactly why him and dd got into it in the first place...cause dd came in to save him......my proof is in the comic....go by it read it and see for yourself.....
"I had to bring this old post back up just to point out that Batman's full arsenal is not available to him in this fight and what he regularly carries is not limited by any means but it is nowhere near as much as what is implied here... and let's tap on these mystical/magical abilities somewhat shall we..."
the only things in his arsenal he probably woudn't be able to use are his batwing and batmobile......which despite being part of his character......he would flat out KILL SPIDERMAN if he had these....but I'm giving spiderman a ben of the doubt to say that he doesn't....
"Sorry to say this but if this where completely accurate then Batman would have no equal in combat of any sort and would also be nigh invincible. Despite Batman's fatigue Bane would have been in way over his head and easily defeated by the abilities described above. "
what do you meean IF.....that's like saying IF spiderman had spider agility......it's part of the characters abilities....again you're depowering batman to make you're argument....you can't do that....when he lost to bane he was BEYOND the point of exhuastion....he was awake all week engaging in battle after battle against his rogue galleries.....after a week of this he was completely malnurished and just messed up....
"Mastery is a very very big word although it is easily confused with proficiency which simply means being good at something. The difference is truly miles apart because mastery is no less than absolute perfection put to practise."
again you're arguing legistics and real world logic that doesn't matter in comics...batman as been stated on numerous occasions to be a MASTER in his forms of combat....please I understand it doesn't make sense....any body in the real world has enough trouble truley mastering ONE style much less 127.....but we're not discussing the real world...once again you're depowering batman.....
"I also read that on his first night crime-fighting he was almost killed and that wouldn't happen to someone with all of the skills mentioned above."
his first nights crimefighting....were when he dressed up like a thug....he wasn't the batman yet and believe it or not thats a HUGE difference....anyways spiderman wasn't exactly the greatest crimefighter in the world on his first night either....you're arguing a moote point....characters develop...batman's been doing this for 60 + years...
" There is no convincing me that Batman would hold back on skills that would make all the diiference between victory and defeat. Anyone with all the skills listed in the above post would make short work out of Spider-man's rouge gallery, then Batman's, and still humiliate Bane. But all of those abilities WOULD be available for repeated use by someone who has MASTERED all 127 forms of martial arts. Batman has not mastered 127 forms of martial arts."
once again...he had been awake the entire week he fought battle after battle while trying not to kill them he fought of banes army of henchmen...he was policing and patoling the entire city of gothem...and then had to fight a superhuman who's just as good a fighter has he is when he's not superhuman.....at that point he didn't have a chance....even spiderman would have got his ass beat in that type of situation....
"There is no prep-time in this fight and prep-time is what the punisher used to hang with Spider-man"
nope...tha battle I spoke of punisher shot spiderman out of a tree had him runnin and then chucked a grenade to through him off after that he had spidey in his sights but went after the actual villain in the story instead..sabretooth...
Originally posted by Creshosk
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antihero
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_anti-heroes#Comic_booksBatman's an antihero. . . regardless of what you people think of him. .
This is the funniest thing I've read all day.he's the first on that list even. 🤨
The list is in alphabetical order. There would have to be like Alligator or Bangleman to get higher on that list.
Originally posted by Swanky-TunaAh, well still. . .
This list is hilarious at best. Calvin (Calvin & Hobbes)? Thing? Napoleon Dynamite? [b]The cast of Seinfeld?!This is the funniest thing I've read all day.
The list is in alphabetical order. There would have to be like Alligator or Bangleman to get higher on that list.
Originally posted by CreshoskBatman was an anti hero but has changed his style since those days. I read a book about villians and there was a picture of Batman killing a criminal with a kick to the neck... I repeat he WAS an anti-hero but no longer falls in the same category with Venom.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antihero
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_anti-heroes#Comic_booksBatman's an antihero. . . regardless of what you people think of him. . he's the first on that list even. 🤨
😆 List also has Tommy Vercetti from GTA Vice City. He can't be a anti-hero as he's a freaking psycho killer.
"In literature and film, an anti-hero is a central or supporting character that has some of the personality flaws and ultimate fortune traditionally assigned to villains but nonetheless also has enough heroic qualities or intentions to gain the sympathy of readers or viewers. Anti-heroes can be awkward, obnoxious, passive, pitiful, or obtuse—but they are always, in some fundamental way, flawed or failed heroes."
Where does a psycho who takes over a city fit into this??
Originally posted by jinzinI stated" to hang with Spidey" having Spidey in his sights means nothing unless he hits him. And did he shoot the web or Spider-man? Regardless the Punisher is Batmans superior with a gun due to waynes hatred of guns.
"There is no prep-time in this fight and prep-time is what the punisher used to hang with Spider-man"nope...tha battle I spoke of punisher shot spiderman out of a tree had him runnin and then chucked a grenade to through him off after that he had spidey in his sights but went after the actual villain in the story instead..sabretooth...
You see batman is a hero, superhero, detective, and antihero all chucked into one.
A hero because he does not kill. (But he will beat you within an inch of your life, or break every bones in your body.) Wait a sec. this is not very hero like. Falls under the antihero category three paragraphs down.
A superhero because he is not afraid of anyone. And he constantly putt's he life on the line each time with no superpowers to guarantee that he would survive the night.
A detective does the world greatest detective mean any thing to you? If you doesn't I would be happy to help you.
An antihero batman has alway been paranoid on the fact that he does not trust his fellow team members.(Making contingencies to take them down and Identity Crisis made things even worse.) After Identity Crisis and the mind wipe of batman by the power pack (Green Arrow, Zantana, Green Lantern, blue battle, Booster Gold.... some others I can not remember) Batman just grew increasingly paranoid to the ends that he built a satellite to watch over all the heros on the planet (Named the Omac Project). Why because he does not trust them all. (even superman) And we know that batman trust superman more than he trust the other members.
Regardless the Punisher is Batmans superior with a gun due to waynes hatred of guns.
Fair enough
Originally posted by brainchild81
I would rather Spidey keep his unorthodox fighting style. It keeps him hard to predict. As for the Carnage thing. We know Bats won, but it's HOW he won that makes me think he'd(No help @ all) never beat Carnage or Spidey w/out prep. If we fought for some odd reason and somebody distracted you while you had me @ a serious disadvantage that you had earned by yourself and I then kicked your a$$, would it be smarter to say "brainchild81 can beat your a$$" or "brainchild81 can beat your a$$ as long as somebody distracts you"? If I beat you with help, does it prove I can beat you without it? If I were Bats, I'd have done the same, but I wouldn't think or expect people to think I would've won otherwise. Carnage gripped him. Bats WAS about to be killed.
And what is your history when it comes to beating people who are way stronger than you are? Because Batman has such feats up the yin yan. Beating people who are stronger than he is, is his calling card.
Originally posted by KentoSome of the antiheros follow the first definition others the second.
😆 List also has Tommy Vercetti from GTA Vice City. He can't be a anti-hero as he's a freaking psycho killer."In literature and film, an anti-hero is a central or supporting character that has some of the personality flaws and ultimate fortune traditionally assigned to villains but nonetheless also has enough heroic qualities or intentions to gain the sympathy of readers or viewers. Anti-heroes can be awkward, obnoxious, passive, pitiful, or obtuse—but they are always, in some fundamental way, flawed or failed heroes."
Where does a psycho who takes over a city fit into this??
A protagonist is who the story follows, who it is about.
An antihero can be a protagonist who does not have any heroic qualities.
An Antihero can also be a hero who like batman, plays dirty and does not play by the rules.
He may not kill, but he doesn't have to kill.
An antihero can be the greatest of heros with personality flaws that make less that supersqueaky clean. A simple hot headed brash attitude, or impatience.
In Batman its the "playing dirty thing." Batman plays to win, and will do things that other more goody superheros will not.
This may not factor in too much but I remember two episodes of Justice league:
1.) During the assassination attempt that I think aquaman got blamed for it or it was an attempt on aquaman . . . don't remember the specifics it was an earlier episode. . . but they caught the would be assassin and were trying to extract information from him . . . Batman succeeds by doing something that scares him.
2.) An episode where Batman reveals he carries kryptonite with him everywhere and Hawkgirl makes a comment about him bering scary. . .
Anyway. . .
An antihero does not have to be spectacular either.
Originally posted by jinzin
"seriously...spiderman couldn't punch off sin eaters head with multiple punches with the intent to kill no way he does it to a suited batman... "ummmmmmm hahahahahahaha 😂 I guess you haven't read that comic either have you? spiderman definitely had the intent to kill....it's exactly why him and dd got into it in the first place...cause dd came in to save him......my proof is in the comic....go by it read it and see for yourself.....
"I had to bring this old post back up just to point out that Batman's full arsenal is not available to him in this fight and what he regularly carries is not limited by any means but it is nowhere near as much as what is implied here... and let's tap on these mystical/magical abilities somewhat shall we..."
the only things in his arsenal he probably woudn't be able to use are his batwing and batmobile......which despite being part of his character......he would flat out KILL SPIDERMAN if he had these....but I'm giving spiderman a ben of the doubt to say that he doesn't....
"Sorry to say this but if this where completely accurate then Batman would have no equal in combat of any sort and would also be nigh invincible. Despite Batman's fatigue Bane would have been in way over his head and easily defeated by the abilities described above. "
what do you meean IF.....that's like saying IF spiderman had spider agility......it's part of the characters abilities....again you're depowering batman to make you're argument....you can't do that....when he lost to bane he was BEYOND the point of exhuastion....he was awake all week engaging in battle after battle against his rogue galleries.....after a week of this he was completely malnurished and just messed up....
"Mastery is a very very big word although it is easily confused with proficiency which simply means being good at something. The difference is truly miles apart because mastery is no less than absolute perfection put to practise."
again you're arguing legistics and real world logic that doesn't matter in comics...batman as been stated on numerous occasions to be a MASTER in his forms of combat....please I understand it doesn't make sense....any body in the real world has enough trouble truley mastering ONE style much less 127.....but we're not discussing the real world...once again you're depowering batman.....
"I also read that on his first night crime-fighting he was almost killed and that wouldn't happen to someone with all of the skills mentioned above."
his first nights crimefighting....were when he dressed up like a thug....he wasn't the batman yet and believe it or not thats a HUGE difference....anyways spiderman wasn't exactly the greatest crimefighter in the world on his first night either....you're arguing a moote point....characters develop...batman's been doing this for 60 + years...
" There is no convincing me that Batman would hold back on skills that would make all the diiference between victory and defeat. Anyone with all the skills listed in the above post would make short work out of Spider-man's rouge gallery, then Batman's, and still humiliate Bane. But all of those abilities WOULD be available for repeated use by someone who has MASTERED all 127 forms of martial arts. Batman has not mastered 127 forms of martial arts."
once again...he had been awake the entire week he fought battle after battle while trying not to kill them he fought of banes army of henchmen...he was policing and patoling the entire city of gothem...and then had to fight a superhuman who's just as good a fighter has he is when he's not superhuman.....at that point he didn't have a chance....even spiderman would have got his ass beat in that type of situation....
Batman has what he regularly carries on him for this fight and Spider-man as well. Unless he carries the Bat-vehicles on his back,well....then he definitely can't use them here. He doesn't REGULARLY carry remotes for them.
I say if because I can't just take your word over the author's of the book on Batman. The "if" means I respect you enough to believe that you weren't making these claims up. Spider-man uses his agility in every incarnation of his character. I have never seen Batman use mystical ninja abilities and I am quite familiar with him, though admittedly not as much as you. You are empowering Batman to support YOUR argument. I'm just stating the findings of my research on the Bat. Research Spidey and you'll find that his Super agility is noted. Batman's mystic abilities were NOT.
If you don't want to use real world logic then continue this debate with someone who doesn't live in the real world... It sounds to me that if sound logic is used then you admit that Batman has no chance...at all, not even 10% of the time. I'm not depowering Batman, I'm just bringing him back from the level you've EMPOWERED him to. I've already stated that the word "mastered" can be improperly used as a synonym for " really good" and is accepted despite being completely innaccurate.
Batman has developed true, but Spider-man has as well. Initially Spider-man was more efficient than Batman meeting his first defeat from the Scorpion who was far stronger than HIM. Batman met his first defeat on his first night nuff said. The costume may have made a big difference but not enough of a difference to effect the skills of a " supposed" ninja "master?"
And your last argument just further proves that Batman's abilities have been drastically exaggerated. If Bane is as "good a fighter as him" without mastering all 127 forms of martial arts, then Batman obviously hasn't mastered all forms of martial arts period. A week with no sleep shouldn't effect someone who can negate exhaustion and fatigue, and at the same time become invisible to an opponent while taking over their mind, setting them up for a Fist of the North Star style strike that immediately incapacitates any opponent regardless of the opponents strength or inability to feel pain. A master of all martial arts could do this and more. Thanks for a good debate jinzin!! 😄 I think my job is done. Fellow Spidey supporters... How'd I do? 🙂