Originally posted by 8bitChrisI'm told to come up with a scenerio by one spidey fanboy and told not to use scenerios by another fanboy. . .
"Hmm . . . IT's still easier to hit a stationary object than one in motion. Dome room he might miss the initial shot not knowing how fast bat man moves, get's closer with the third shot (second shot probably grabbed a thrown item)
and the fourth or the fifth shot would probably land on batman. . .Not sure what happens after that."(scenario)
"This means you are including batman's boats, planes, batmobils and who knows what he has on hand."
Batman just carries all those around? lol
So anyway, here's me being redundant again.
The fact of the matter is, anyone could write in a way for Batman to beat Spiderman. However, if you were sitting around looking at a list of the two and comparing powers Batman is a HUGE underdog in this fight.
Batman fans have to create "scenarios" in order to make their case (e.g. Batman actually lands a batarang. Batman hides behind a wall and stabs Spidey with the Batboat) ; and if you've read any of my posts on this board you know what I think of scenarios. (They are made up by the poster and have infinite possibilites or outcomes. So in short, they don't count as any sort of credible evidence..)
Spiderman fans on the other hand, base their arguments on sheer ability and powers. Spiderman outclasses, by a very large margin, Batman in every physical way. Spiderman's strength, speed, and durability alone is enough to win a random street fight with Batman. Then we have to think about things like his spider sense or webbing and it's practically in the bag for him. On paper, Spiderman "should" win this fight. You can make up a million reasons for Batman winning this fight; but he'll always be an underdog.
I don't care if you have a comic scan where Spiderman squeezes a balloon with intent to kill and can't do it.
"It is assumed that each contestant will fight to his/her best ability, but still within the character's personality, unless specified otherwise. That means they will use any powers at their disposal. For example, even though The Flash doesn't clock each of his own opponents in the first picosecond in his own comic, it is assumed that is a viable tactic on this board since it is a proven fact that he possesses that level of speed.
It is also assumed that the characters fight at their optimum levels of ability - not explicitly weakened or unusually powered up for those who have variable power levels."And where is says using all powers at their disposal i'm assuming they don't mean Batman carrying around every single gadget, batboat/copter/tank or whatever he's ever created. Just the things he would normally lug around.
That is from the forum rules. It is a proven fact that Spiderman can lift 20,000+ pounds and a punch from Spiderman would make Batman's melon explode. However, it is not in Spiderman's character to kill; so he will be holding back in his fight against Batman. And even when holding back, he "should" still hand Batman his ass.
Typical Batman fan counter-argument, "No seriously, man Batman could do three backflips bounce of a wall simotaneously throwing a batarang and three gas grenades while creating a device that will nullify Spiderman's wall crawling abilities and storing his chi for a punch that could make God cry."
See? That's a scenario. You can't prove that any of the things Batman does will land. But you can make up a scenario where they do. Based on sheer power and ability alone, I give this one easily to Spiderman. If I were to be writing a comic, i'd make it a close fight that gets interrupted by some super baddie who Spiderman and Batman have to team up against. If I were trying to be realistic knowing eachother's power levels? I'd draw one panel of Spiderman caving Batman's face in with one punch.
*sigh*
"should" is an overstatement.
Sheer ability such as strength, equilibrium, and speed definitely aren't the major components in a fight with such depth. As fans the majority of us will factor in the two most important factors which inevitably become more decisive than any physical attribute. Abstract power or intelligence. Now since Spider-Man doesn't have psionic powers, he doesn't have any abstract/psionic power but he DOES have intelligence. Intelligence is the most powerful quality that a superhero could possibly have. That is the reason why humans like Lex Luthor with brawn can play ball with such powerhouses like Superman.
This is why I think Batman will win. Comics give us a preconceived notion of how superheroes fair against the injustices that humanity seems so prone to fall in. Superheroes give us hope and become the underdog even when things seem impossible. Nobody gives us that hope better than Batman. Put him in juxtaposition with Superman or Green Lantern and you STILL see him as a match.
That's why I believe Spidey will lose. You can base scenarios by piecing together preconceptions of how they usually fight and the things they've done. In that sense, they can be as much truth as anything if logical. You never EVER bet on the stronger villain in comics. Because the superheroes give you hope. They MUST win. Spider-Man should easily lose to Venom if you compare statistics yet Spidey manages to win(most of the time) and other villains like Scorpion are much stronger. YET, after losses and losses, Peter Parker eventually perseveres and kicks their ass.
Considering that, with all Batman has done and accomplished, I'd bet on Bruce beating Peter Parker. Peter Parker may fair against him physically but piecing together their intelligence levels and incredible accomplishments(because otherwise they wouldn't be comic books), Batman would win.
Originally posted by brainchild81Wow, someone actually enjoy's debating with me? I must not be doing my job. 😉
That was a respectable post Creshosk. You're one of the few on the Batman side of things that I respect and enjoy debating with.
Seriously though, Normally I wouldn't have even dignified that batman fanboy's post with a response, but since someone I respect asked for a comment on it . . . Well then it got harsh light (probably not as harsh as deserved) from me.
I mean the kind of fanboyism that person showed in the post you quoted BC is so bad it dishonors the thing they're a fan of just as much if not moreso than the thing their a fan of's opponent.
I'm not a Spiderman fanboy. I am just being realistic here. And I wasn't directly attacking your use of the scenario. I was just using it as an example as to why I don't like the use of scenarios on this thread. There were about 50 others I could have used; but yours was like on the last page or so. I just wasn't dedicated enough to go grab any other.
Anyway, if I was a fanboy of anything it would probably be, sad to say, the X-men. 😛
"You can base scenarios by piecing together preconceptions of how they usually fight and the things they've done. In that sense, they can be as much truth as anything if logical."
It's still fiction and made up. Truth is, none of us know who would win between Batman and Spiderman. Scenarios are not legit evidence; they are fanfics.
If it were a Spiderman comic Spiderman would win (and Batman would be severely overpowered). If it were a Batman comic, Batman would win (Spiderman would be the same, but Batman will find some ingenious way to defeat him).
Who "should" win? Spiderman. Batman will always be the underdog in this fight.
Originally posted by 8bitChrisNow, being a fanboy in and of itself isn't a bad thing.
I'm not a Spiderman fanboy. I am just being realistic here. And I wasn't directly attacking your use of the scenario. I was just using it as an example as to why I don't like the use of scenarios on this thread. There were about 50 others I could have used; but yours was like on the last page or so. I just wasn't dedicated enough to go grab any other.Anyway, if I was a fanboy of anything it would probably be, sad to say, the X-men. 😛
I will gladly debate with the fanboys . . so long as they aren't blatantly stupid about it.
I argue against most of their arguments . . just to throw out counter points mostly. A devil's advocate sort of thing.
Some fanboys have great reasoning. Spiderman IS stronger than batman. Spiderman CAN punch through brick and steel with ease. So he SHOULD be able to just punch his opponents out (unless they're someone like juggernaut, superman etc.), unless there is a reason why he couldn't. ASIDE from his morals thing, like when he obviously isn't holding back.
And I don't know what that would be in some cases.
I'm not even sure if this "chi" thing batman has would do the trick in that department, I used one couter argument, and one person came close to perfectly shooting it down, they got like 90%. . . and then didn't deliver the finishing blow.
Anyway what was I saying? Meh can't remember (even re reading this post I can't remember where my train of thought started.)
Originally posted by 8bitChrisNow, this is real world logic that does apply directly to comic books, and can't be dismissed in the same manner as other arguments.
If it were a Spiderman comic Spiderman would win (and Batman would be severely overpowered). If it were a Batman comic, Batman would win (Spiderman would be the same, but Batman will find some ingenious way to defeat him).
*shrugs*
He's right folks. But despite that,(and singlepostedly negating the entire purpose of this forum) I like to start fights so:
...
uh...
...
Nope, can't think of a way to pick a fight with what he posted (that I omited). . .
Originally posted by 8bitChrislol, don't be sorry. I can normally find something to pick a fight about, just to keep discussion going . . .
lol I'm sorry 🙁
So congrats on that. 🙂
I thought about using the
Who "should" win? Spiderman. Batman will always be the underdog in this fight."
line, but it's pretty clear there'd be no point based on everything other than the
Who "should" win? Spiderman. Batman will always be the underdog in this fight."
line. . .
Originally posted by MrHeavySilence
Put him in juxtaposition with Superman or Green Lantern and you STILL see him as a match.
who does?
i'm sorry but batman is not going to overcome life threatning punches and lightning fast agility just because he is an underdog.
Parker is just as intellectual as batman. Their intelligence differ in area, but both are genious. So i cannot see one getting the vote of intelligence over the other. Looking at past accomplishments, for their circumstances they are just as great as one another.
Originally posted by ragesRemorse
who does?i'm sorry but batman is not going to overcome life threatning punches and lightning fast agility just because he is an underdog.
Parker is just as intellectual as batman. Their intelligence differ in area, but both are genious. So i cannot see one getting the vote of intelligence over the other. Looking at past accomplishments, for their circumstances they are just as great as one another.
Thank you. Spidey is basically the quick intellect side of MARVEL, sure you have Mr. Fantastic and others, but Parker is one science wiz and cashes in on making his opponents go on the offensive. Similar to bat mans style. Bats and Spidey are both great with technology. With the plethora of good items that bats has come out with, and many accomplishments of parker like steel cable webbing and dealing with enemies such as symbiotes. They both have brains, problem is spidey has brawn and an unnatural pre cog and adaptability to his environment.
Originally posted by lifeisaglich
OK.....good for you? 🙂No holds barred match batman wins. No holds barred match means that batman is going to cheat up the yin yang. No holds barred match means that they are both going at each other with everything that they have got. This means you are including batman's boats, planes, batmobils and who knows what he has on hand. No holds barred match means that batman already knows who spiderman is, knows what he had for break fast, launch, and even what he is going to have for launch. Before spiderman even gets it. why there is a scar on spiderman's pinky toe. No hold barred match means you are giving everything what spiderman is to batman, you are giveing him a biography of spidermans life. Simply because batman does not go into any SITUATION UNPREPARED.
But correct me if I am wrong, Isn't this how debates are fought. Have you ever seen a debate where the other team gives props to the opposition? I haven't because in debates you try to break what you opponent is saying.
No huge upgrades have been given to batman, there are just stuff you did not know existed.
Since you are a wrestling fan I can understand you being confused by the meaning of no holds barred. It doesn't mean no rules at all it means that there will be no holding anything back...for example in a wrestling match(professional) they could use any weapon of their choosing, but a gun is still against the rules...
For this battle it would mean that Batman is going to try to kill Spidey and vice versa....Spidey has connections with Reed Richards and if Batmans going to get his batwing (paid for) then Spidey is gonna get the souped up fantasticar(rented) and blow Batman's low tech ass away....
This is a fight between the two characters who have what they regularly
carry on them and for Batman...that's not an armory of weapons. For Spidey...it's what he has mastered in and out, just webbing.
Spiderman met Batman but Batman has no more of an edge due to that meeting than Spidey because guess what? SPIDEY ALSO RESEARCHES HEROES AND VILLIANS!!!
You must truly believe that Batman's miles beyond Spidey's intellect when that just isn't true....Batman is just obsessed with fighting crime and does little else, where Spidey has a life,a job, friends, family, career goals, and BILLS! If Spider-man had Batman's money he'd probably be on the level of Tony stark and Reed Richards as far as inventions and breakthroughs go...
So Batman still falls to a Spider-man that is trying to win by any means necessary..IMO 😮💨
Originally posted by The MISTER
Spidey has connections with Reed Richards and if Batmans going to get his batwing (paid for) then Spidey is gonna get the souped up fantasticar(rented) and blow Batman's low tech ass away....
Anyway I'm not even sure of the relevency of this, as batman doesn't use the batmobile in all of his fights I'm not sure if he'd be granted the batmobile in this fight anyway. . .
Originally posted by The MISTER
This is a fight between the two characters who have what they regularly
carry on them and for Batman...that's not an armory of weapons. For Spidey...it's what he has mastered in and out, just webbing.
Originally posted by The MISTERPreptime?
Spiderman met Batman but Batman has no more of an edge due to that meeting than Spidey because guess what? SPIDEY ALSO RESEARCHES HEROES AND VILLIANS!!!
Not as well as Batman does in this category, Batman has his bat computer, spiderman. . . what does he have to match batman's ability in this feild?
Originally posted by The MISTERYup this is true.
You must truly believe that Batman's miles beyond Spidey's intellect when that just isn't true....Batman is just obsessed with fighting crime and does little else, where Spidey has a life,a job, friends, family, career goals, and BILLS! If Spider-man had Batman's money he'd probably be on the level of Tony stark and Reed Richards as far as inventions and breakthroughs go...
But this is also why batman has more firsthand resources than spidey does as far as research goes. But you can't call Spidey stupid. He did make the web cartridges and the webshooters that he can use in a lot of different ways.
He invented his own weapon and then mastered it.
Originally posted by The MISTERAny means neccisery?
So Batman still falls to a Spider-man that is trying to win by any means necessary..IMO 😮💨
Yeah Spiderman would mop the floor with batman in a no holds barred sort of fight where they are out of character, so innocents wouldn't factor in, and neither would them carring about loved ones.
Spiderman could drop a building on batman. . after the semitruck . . the fire engine the car the postoffice box the street lamp. . .
Don't remove spidey's morals folks, he'd make quite a dangerous villian.
Originally posted by Creshosk
Uh. . Batman's batmobile is his own. . . spidey would require 3rd party help to get the fantasticar . . .Anyway I'm not even sure of the relevency of this, as batman doesn't use the batmobile in all of his fights I'm not sure if he'd be granted the batmobile in this fight anyway. . .
Preptime?
Not as well as Batman does in this category, Batman has his bat computer, spiderman. . . what does he have to match batman's ability in this feild?
Yup this is true.
But this is also why batman has more firsthand resources than spidey does as far as research goes. But you can't call Spidey stupid. He did make the web cartridges and the webshooters that he can use in a lot of different ways.
He invented his own weapon and then mastered it.
Any means neccisery?
Yeah Spiderman would mop the floor with batman in a no holds barred sort of fight where they are out of character, so innocents wouldn't factor in, and neither would them carring about loved ones.
Spiderman could drop a building on batman. . after the semitruck . . the fire engine the car the postoffice box the street lamp. . .
Don't remove spidey's morals folks, he'd make quite a dangerous villian.
Makes sense. I suppose Batman does have a chance.