Juggernaut Vs. Thor

Originally posted by JuggernautFan
do you read the comics..... seriously. just you saying "what backlash" is what makes me laugh. hulk was being mind controlled, and he broke free of it. which is what knocked juggernaut out. this is what i mean by you only read half the story and "ASS-U-ME" that you know whats going on.

that is just stupid........ hulk hitting juggernaut with or without the helmet would make no difference. the purpose of the helmet is to protect juggernaut from PSIONICS. is hulk a psion??? i dont think so......

in hulk 404?? gonna have to be more specific, i dont know what you are talking about.

he was enraged when he figured out he was being mind controlled.....

no he couldnt have..... hence the backlash. yes there was a backlash.

no........ thats the way you see it.

it wasnt just on the virge of insanity. read the rest........ it was on the virge of insanity WITH RAGE. which was the point of me posting it in the first place. but yet again, you skip over "facts" to try and prove your false points.

i do, but you need to read all of it instead of just half of it. i'll fill you in on everything you miss. dont worry i got your back 😉

but atleast i know what i'm talking about....... you do not. atleast on this particular subject.

how is it???? have you ever been laying in bed in an uncomfortable position??? are you in pain?? no. you obviously dont think before you post. you are just finding anything and everything wrong with what i say (which there is nothing) just so i have to type more.

its like putting a lemon in your mouth. do you make a face?? yes...... do you feel pain.......... NO........ you make faces all the time in everything you do. so does he. he just happens to be a human with the powers of the juggernaut. if you see a huge fist comming at your face i'm sure you would tense up also regardless if you could feel it or not.

he is a human at mind, immortal body. dont confuse the 2. he can control his reactions on his face, he cannot control not feeling pain. which is why he has those looks on his face.

when did he say aarrrgh??? you are switching subjects to fast.

If you don't stop breaking up my quotes to respond I'm going to ignore your posts. Who was controlling Hulk? If you're talking about the Apocalypse issue, I'm not considering War Hulk.

Of course the helmet makes a difference. It's primary aspect is to protect against psionics, but the helmet is still mystical, thus the removal is going to leave Jugs more vulnerable. This was proven during Thor's fight.

You're the one making false points. You assume Hulk was on the strongest level he can reach and Juggernaut just shrugs it off. Bullshit. Juggernaut cannot shrug off Hulk when he's capable of destroying planets. He hasn't faced Hulk at his maddest, insane or not. Again, insanity WITH RAGE doesn't mean you're at your strongest or maddest. He always has rage, that means nothing.

Of course you know what you're talking about and I don't. That's the point, nobody knows what you're talking about because you're always arguing Juggernaut is the strongest there is and can't be beaten.

Lol, I have never been in bed in an uncomfortable position and screamed Aarrgh or made a grimacing look. If I did, that would be pain. When did he say Aarggh? He's said Aarrgh plenty of times! You apparently ignore the pages where Juggernaut is getting thrown around. Comparing a lemon to an earth-shattering blow by the Hulk does not work. Wincing from a lemon is completely different. Juggernaut is not going to wince seeing a fist come at him if he's supposedly unable to be hurt. Besides, I'm talking about the wincing he makes AFTER he's been hit. He's not going to wince for no reason!

He controls the looks on his face? So he actively chooses to wince in pain just for effect? He can't FEEL pain but he decides to grimace just for the hell of it? I don't think so.

Hulk has proven greater strength. You may despise the Onslaught saga all you like, fact is Hulk achieved what Juggernaut could not.

Jugs beats thor every time they meet, a blood-raged thor looses to hulk, while hulk can be easily disintegrated by surfer (his words)...ahh welcome to the wonderful world of Marvel ambiguity.

Oh, and I forgot to add that surfer has never won against Thor.

Originally posted by wrathofachilles
Hulk has proven greater strength. You may despise the Onslaught saga all you like, fact is Hulk achieved what Juggernaut could not.

I don't think Juggernaut even tried. I think even Onslaught mentioned there was something screwy with his story.

And look at this . How many people have pierced Juggernaut's helmets before? I guess Psylocke's as good of a telepath as Cable? X-Man? Phoenix?

Originally posted by wrathofachilles
Hulk has proven greater strength. You may despise the Onslaught saga all you like, fact is Hulk achieved what Juggernaut could not.

well onslaught couldnt telepathically assault hulk like he did juggernaut. Juggernaut vs. onslaught .......... wait wait wait..... isnt that juggernauts weakness ??? telepathy........ glad i could fill you in yet again 😉

Originally posted by wrathofachilles
If you don't stop breaking up my quotes to respond I'm going to ignore your posts.

do you think i care??? i do this so its easier to address each individual section of the posts. so i can reply to each one and break them down since i'm in the "know" and you are not.

Originally posted by wrathofachilles
Who was controlling Hulk? If you're talking about the Apocalypse issue, I'm not considering War Hulk.

i am not talking about war hulk. in issue 403 (which you probably dont have, which is why you dont know the whole story) hulk is put under mind control. then in issue 404 hulk breaks free of his mind control and a phsychic backlash knocks everyone out........ except for vision (whom is a cyborg). yes a psionic backlash knocked juggernaut out. are we clear on this yet????

Originally posted by wrathofachilles
Of course the helmet makes a difference. It's primary aspect is to protect against psionics, but the helmet is still mystical, thus the removal is going to leave Jugs more vulnerable. This was proven during Thor's fight.

no it wasnt proven during thors fight. thor removed -alot- of juggernauts magics. which is what protects him. thor could hit juggernaut all day without his helmet and it wouldnt make a bit of difference. as long as he was connected to his magics. the sole purpose of the helmet, is to protect him from psionics. if you disagree you are wrong........ period..... end of story......

Originally posted by wrathofachilles
You're the one making false points.

no...... i'm telling YOU what the writers wrote, what it said in the very pages.

Originally posted by wrathofachilles
You assume Hulk was on the strongest level he can reach and Juggernaut just shrugs it off. Bullshit.

it is not "bullshit" i assume you havnt even read it. because you know nothing about it.

Originally posted by wrathofachilles
Juggernaut cannot shrug off Hulk when he's capable of destroying planets. He hasn't faced Hulk at his maddest, insane or not. Again, insanity WITH RAGE doesn't mean you're at your strongest or maddest. He always has rage, that means nothing.

it means everything. hulk had been raging for nearly 2 TWO (thats right 2) days and his anger was building up all the while. how do i know?? well the madder hulk gets, the stronger he gets. then on top of that they had to fight an army batallion enragin him further. and as you -should- know (but probably dont) the madder hulk gets the stronger he gets. then on top of that it made him angry that juggernaut was going to kill some innocent people. so right there are 3 things that pissed hulk off, yet he couldnt over power hulk. what do you have to say now????

Originally posted by wrathofachilles
Of course you know what you're talking about and I don't. That's the point, nobody knows what you're talking about because you're always arguing Juggernaut is the strongest there is and can't be beaten.

well when somebody can beat him, i'd say it.

Originally posted by wrathofachilles
Lol, I have never been in bed in an uncomfortable position and screamed Aarrgh or made a grimacing look.

it didnt cause him pain. when did he scream in pain???

Originally posted by wrathofachilles
If I did, that would be pain.

i dont even know what you are refering to. you have to be more specific.

Originally posted by wrathofachilles
When did he say Aarggh? He's said Aarrgh plenty of times! You apparently ignore the pages where Juggernaut is getting thrown around.

no i dont 😉 thats the purpose of a fight. to weigh boths sides and decide the outcome. but i'd like you to give me issue numbers and pages caues it probably doesnt even exist. either that or you dont know what you are talking about, yet again.

Originally posted by wrathofachilles
Comparing a lemon to an earth-shattering blow by the Hulk does not work.

comparing pain from juggernaut and physical force does not work either. whats your point?

Originally posted by wrathofachilles
Wincing from a lemon is completely different.

no its not....... no matter how much pain you DONT feel if a fist is comming at you, you are going to tense up. which is what he does.

Originally posted by wrathofachilles
Juggernaut is not going to wince seeing a fist come at him if he's supposedly unable to be hurt.

so you think hes just going to stand thier with a retarded/blank look on his face??? no facial expressions what-so-ever??? now what sounds more silly??? come on man, use your brain.

Originally posted by wrathofachilles
Besides, I'm talking about the wincing he makes AFTER he's been hit. He's not going to wince for no reason!

issue numbers 😉 he doesnt just stand around holding his jaw and thinks to himself "man that hurt" his expressions stay no longer than the duration of the actual impact either. so it's quite clear whats going on.

Originally posted by wrathofachilles
He controls the looks on his face?

do you not control your facial expressions?

Originally posted by wrathofachilles
So he actively chooses to wince in pain just for effect? He can't FEEL pain but he decides to grimace just for the hell of it? I don't think so.

well again, hes not going to stand thier with a blank face. that is just stupid. i cant even believe i have to argue with this.

That's week. I've trained in boxing amongst other martial arts and have been a fight fan all my life. NO, you don't always grimace even when getting hit in the face, even when you know it's gonna hurt, even after it hurts. You never show your opponent pain if you don't have to. You show your opponent pain if you have no choice. You saying Jugs hasn't been conditioned by now? I knew Jugs was a little slow but you're saying he has no capability to learn whatsoever.

Originally posted by MERCILOUS
That's week. I've trained in boxing amongst other martial arts and have been a fight fan all my life. NO, you don't always grimace even when getting hit in the face, even when you know it's gonna hurt, even after it hurts. You never show your opponent pain if you don't have to. You show your opponent pain if you have no choice. You saying Jugs hasn't been conditioned by now? I knew Jugs was a little slow but you're saying he has no capability to learn whatsoever.

i didnt say he couldnt learn. i'm saying no matter who you are or what power you have if hulk is swinging at you, tensing is probably -always- going to happen. besides, he doesnt always tense up.

Originally posted by MERCILOUS
That's week.

i believe the word you are searching for is weak 😉

Yes that was the word I failed to use. By the way i wasn't aware you were the grammer police.

And no, by comparison, not everyone winces when mike tyson swings at them. You completely missed the point.

I'm sure he gets what you're saying, but Juggernaut's not a professional fighter either. What he's talking about is a reflex to getting hit. It happens, whether it hurts or not. That's my two cents on it anyways.

And not everyoen winces from a Mike Tyson punch because they usually don't have the time while they're still standing.😉

mike tyson had luck in most of his fights, even people who got beat by him call him "glass-jaw", he's hit people countless times in the face and none of them have fallen (of course i mean the first 15 punches or so), now if you mean someone like butter-bean thats another story

and by the way juggy has a huge fear of ANYONE (and i mean anyone) taking off his helmet, beast did it and all he was trying to do was help, juggy still freaked out, i think (could be wrong about this one) when he came to jeans house with his helmet off so jean could find out who onslaught is, he was even scared then and no one was even hostile, in some (very few) cases when he loses the helmet he loses the match, in others he keeps the helmet he wins the fight, he loses the helmet he has a hard time, and about his only weakness without the helmet being telepathy, i really doubt that, since when he's held in stasis theres never been anything telepathic holding him back

now if you mean juggy after the whole exemplar story arc, then obvioulsy he would lose due to the fact that cytorrak takes fractions of juggy's powers away, now if it were before that, juggy has a phobia of losing his helmet, which doesnt decide the battle but his fear is something hulk would have an edge over

Originally posted by Havoc470
and by the way juggy has a huge fear of ANYONE (and i mean anyone) taking off his helmet, beast did it and all he was trying to do was help, juggy still freaked out, i think (could be wrong about this one) when he came to jeans house with his helmet off so jean could find out who onslaught is, he was even scared then and no one was even hostile, in some (very few) cases when he loses the helmet he loses the match, in others he keeps the helmet he wins the fight, he loses the helmet he has a hard time, and about his only weakness without the helmet being telepathy, i really doubt that, since when he's held in stasis theres never been anything telepathic holding him back

now if you mean juggy after the whole exemplar story arc, then obvioulsy he would lose due to the fact that cytorrak takes fractions of juggy's powers away, now if it were before that, juggy has a phobia of losing his helmet, which doesnt decide the battle but his fear is something hulk would have an edge over

Was that thing with Beast when Juggernaut aged horribly fast?

Seems he has a security blanket thing with his helmet. Under the helmet, he can mentally become the Juggernaut. But without it, he may fall out of that state of mind and mentally hold himself back. Without the helmet, he goes back into the Cain Marko persona and Cain knows he was no Juggernaut.

It's like Lord of the Flies. All theory really but makes some sense.

Oh, and there's the fear of ANY telepath making him think he's a kitten or something.

yeah thats the point of juggernaut, him losing his helmet reminds him of a weakened state, like when he got beat by his dad

Originally posted by Havoc470
mike tyson had luck in most of his fights, even people who got beat by him call him "glass-jaw", he's hit people countless times in the face and none of them have fallen (of course i mean the first 15 punches or so), now if you mean someone like butter-bean thats another story

and by the way juggy has a huge fear of ANYONE (and i mean anyone) taking off his helmet, beast did it and all he was trying to do was help, juggy still freaked out, i think (could be wrong about this one) when he came to jeans house with his helmet off so jean could find out who onslaught is, he was even scared then and no one was even hostile, in some (very few) cases when he loses the helmet he loses the match, in others he keeps the helmet he wins the fight, he loses the helmet he has a hard time, and about his only weakness without the helmet being telepathy, i really doubt that, since when he's held in stasis theres never been anything telepathic holding him back

now if you mean juggy after the whole exemplar story arc, then obvioulsy he would lose due to the fact that cytorrak takes fractions of juggy's powers away, now if it were before that, juggy has a phobia of losing his helmet, which doesnt decide the battle but his fear is something hulk would have an edge over

you are so wrong its not even funny...... the only reason he loses when his helmet comes off, is because of some telepathic hitting him with an assault, or a "backlash" that just happens to take place. hence is why hes always losing. he doesnt fear losing his helmet. in hulk/juggernauts first battle he lost his helmet and was using that to his advantage. not being afraid of it...... also when he beat hulk to a pulp he didnt have a helmet. he wasnt afraid when thor shattered his helmet either. he wasnt afraid when the exemplars had him suspended in mid air either (his helmet was off there too).

he just doesnt like to have his mind messed with. which is why he hates charles in the first place.

well that doesnt go with most of the comics i've read of him, beast took off juggy's helmet to save him (last time i checked, beast is'nt a telepath) and cain freaked out, nimrod slapped his helmet off and you know that scared him, especially when he got knocked unconcious, everytime he's held in stasis (mind you, when he's in stasis there's nothing telepathic keeping him that way) his helmets off, when he was being held in prison recently in uncanny (although its a weaker cain, and he did voluntarily go to jail....but that's not to say he wouldn't have ended up there anyway)) all that was holding him were two large steel clamps on his arms, and no helmet on, cain's life getting beaten by his dad affected him in a way where he feels insecure with the smallest incline of a weakened state (as alot of kids do when they get beat by a father figure) and that's gonna haunt him forever

the reason he hates charles is because his father liked charles (although he beat charles too) and juggy hated that, of course the telepathy would piss you off even more but the normal reason he hates charles is because he's the kid who stepped in and took all the attention, its sibling rivaly which is even worse with a kid that has telepathy lol

Originally posted by Havoc470
well that doesnt go with most of the comics i've read of him, beast took off juggy's helmet to save him (last time i checked, beast is'nt a telepath) and cain freaked out, nimrod slapped his helmet off and you know that scared him, especially when he got knocked unconcious, everytime he's held in stasis (mind you, when he's in stasis there's nothing telepathic keeping him that way) his helmets off, when he was being held in prison recently in uncanny (although its a weaker cain, and he did voluntarily go to jail....but that's not to say he wouldn't have ended up there anyway)) all that was holding him were two large steel clamps on his arms, and no helmet on, cain's life getting beaten by his dad affected him in a way where he feels insecure with the smallest incline of a weakened state (as alot of kids do when they get beat by a father figure) and that's gonna haunt him forever

the reason he hates charles is because his father liked charles (although he beat charles too) and juggy hated that, of course the telepathy would piss you off even more but the normal reason he hates charles is because he's the kid who stepped in and took all the attention, its sibling rivaly which is even worse with a kid that has telepathy lol

No your wrong he hates Charles mostly because when Charles mind powers developed he wanst able to control his mind reading abilities and Cain somehow knew that Charles was inside his mind and he thought that Charles was doing it on purpose ill go find a link to a site somewhere telling about it if you wnat.

i think you should read the comic's again, charles would be acknowledged by cains father and then leave to his room, then cain would come into the room and try to bully charles around (since cain had no love of his own) then charles would finally use his telepathy and cain could'nt do anything about that, hence sibling rivalry, although its even worse with a kid that can use telepathy

i actually re-read the whole juggernaut bio on the uncannyxmen.com site a few days back

xavier had control of his abilities when he first started manifesting them, he'd read the teachers mind to get answers to tests

Originally posted by Tron
I'm sure he gets what you're saying, but Juggernaut's not a professional fighter either. What he's talking about is a reflex to getting hit. It happens, whether it hurts or not. That's my two cents on it anyways.

And not everyoen winces from a Mike Tyson punch because they usually don't have the time while they're still standing.😉

Not a professional fighter? Are you saying Jugs is inexperienced? I think you missed the point too.

It's called psychological extinction. Let's say someone bangs a couple of symbols by your head, the first time and probably several times after you wince and are startled. Until you learn that there is no negative from the symbols. After so many times you no longer have any reaction. If juggernanaut could not feel any pain he would have stopped reacting a long time ago.

As for Iron Mike, he's pretty slow, I picked him for my example because he's strong. Not have time to see the punch coming? I think you mean bite, cause Holyfield saw every one.