JJ1138,
I believe that part of that is true, but based on what
I have seen and how the politicians try to avoid any
intanglements with the Jedi [or Vader]; they didnt
try to pull any power plays over Vader....
They would've certainly meet their demise like the
one governor in ANH.....
Vader was just an onlooker and watched to make
sure the Emperors will was followed...
would it be fair to say that after ep3 anakin has nowhere else to go, and sure he helped palpatine but only to keep the jedi from disturbing his plans,i think by doing this service for palpatine he is rewarded a place of rank on the death star beneath tarkin becouse like someone else said tarkin is the leader of the outter rim.....
CM,
Well, ofcourse Capt' I will have to disagree.....but I do see the point you are trying to make....
Because Tarkin is head of the governors and the Death Star that Vader is under his controll....
Let us think back to Lord Maul in TPM, he didnt fall under anybody's control, he just did as instructed by Palpatine/Sidious.....
I am sure that nobody would've stood in his way if he wanted to run things himself, but he has received his orders already...
And the same could be said for Count Dooku, yes he leads the trade federation but he has received orders from Palpatine/Sidious previously...remember when he returns to Coruscant and meets Palpatine/Sidious......[plus, I dont think in AOTC there was anybody competitent for Palpatine to rely on]
Vader/Anakin could have left after the Jedi were [suppose to have all been wiped out] but his new master Sidious/Palpatine instructed him now....plus, that is who Anakin relyed on.....
ROTJ [Palpatine refers to Vader as "Old Friend"]
So, to think that Tarkin had any direct control over Vader would be far fetched; but Vader did respect the authority that Tarkin was given by the Emperor......
Something else that catches my eye from ROTJ is when Vader returns to the New Death Star the Commander is very confident that things are in order; but Vader is sent there to get things on track....
When Vader mentions that the Emperor would be visiting soon, the Commander turns white as a ghost......
Vader seems to be in perfect control of things....
Okay, I know this is an old thread but I didn't want to start a new one. I prefer to recycle because it keeps the place cleaner. And it gives a chance to see new opinions now that more films came out!
A few people have mentioned that Vader seemed to be in control, and that he had respect for the Moff. Both could be very true and both would make sense.
However, another to add (not take away or replace the two above suggestions)... Darth Sidious might have been applying the same style of training to his Apprentice (Vader) as what he recieved from his own Master (Darth Plagueis).
"Tell me what you regard as your greatest strength, so I will know how best to undermine you; tell me of your greatest fear, so I will know which I must force you to face; tell me what you cherish most, so I will know what to take from you; and tell me what you crave, so that I might deny you."
By denying Vader the ultimate authority after himself, Sidious was keeping his anger and frustration alive. Just as Plagiueis kept things from Sidious to keep his anger alive, thus making him a better and far more powerful Darth Lord.
We can only assume, Vader was ready to be the true second in command in the years that came after the date 0BBY when the Death Star was destroyed. But it would make sense for a Master to pass on the techniques that he/she had also been taught in their Apprenticeship.
🙂
I think it was simply that Vader was the behind the scenes power, being a member of the clandestine sith, and Tarkin his needed public counterpart/carry over from the corrupted republic of old..
Mirrored by the Maul behind the scenes/on the QT thing in TPM.
The imperial public at large were most likely under the impression that Palps was just an ex-chancellor attacked and mutilated by those evil Jedi folk, with only Kenobi, Yoda and a select few like the the top rebel leaders and possibly Owen, Beru etc left knowing otherwise. "History is written by the winners" etc
Look at the way that the even the force was regarded in ANH:
IE The belief of followers of an ancient religion widely treated with skepticism by even the governing faction that conquered the galaxy partly at its dark side's behest..!
So, the republic/imperial aspect was the one that the public were sold on. And so, to me, In Raiders of the Lost Ark terms, Tarkin and the boys were the face of it, and Vader was like the top SS guy Toht you never would have heard about in Raiders til he turned up in your nepalese bar chasing some artifact, at Hitler's command, whilst all the public would hear about is *insert well know nazi commander's name here* invading Africa. (not admitted publically to be about going after Tannis specifically)
I think Vader was the the Nazi Secret Police of the Empire. The SS always wore the long, black leather trenchcoats and had the lightning bolt "SS" insignia to differenciate them from the officers and common soldiers. They had no "rank" over the military officers but everything about them was imposing. He was only on Tarkin's Death Star because he hauled Leia there after capturing her, trying to find the stolen plans.
Originally posted by focus4chumps
wrongvader is clearly outranked by tarkin in ep4, not just on the death star.
It is debatable on whether or not Tarkin actually outranked Vader. As has been pointed out, Vader probably may not evan have an Imperial military rank: his ability to govern is from a political position via the Emperor. He is referred to as "Lord Vader" but this may be a reference to a full title which is Sith Lord Darth Vader (I don't believe this was canonically known until the PT came out) or simply an honorific.
One can, and accurately so, argue that Tarkin told Vader to release him and Vader complied in the same situation as two colleagues arguing and a third peer tells them to stop.
IIRC, Vader makes use of some authority and resources while on the Death Star and of the Death Star without getting permission from Tarkin. Clearly, Vader has some power that is militarily mutually exclusive from Tarkin. One could argue that Vader outranks Tarkin and be equally correct as saying Tarkin outranks Vader.
I think the "Captain of the boat" analogy is the best fit/description for this situation. Tarkin was captain of the boat so Vader, despite his rank, respected the orders/wishes of Tarkin in situations where commands were given.
Originally posted by dadudemon
It is debatable on whether or not Tarkin actually outranked Vader. As has been pointed out, Vader probably may not evan have an Imperial military rank: his ability to govern is from a political position via the Emperor. He is referred to as "Lord Vader" but this may be a reference to a full title which is Sith Lord Darth Vader (I don't believe this was canonically known until the PT came out) or simply an honorific.One can, and accurately so, argue that Tarkin told Vader to release him and Vader complied in the same situation as two colleagues arguing and a third peer tells them to stop.
right its just a long string of coincidences that he's the one giving orders to vader/above vader and vader complies/supports those orders. at any point vader could have been like "its my turn to be boss." and tarkin would have taken bottom.
Originally posted by Galan007
I believe that Vader was only subordinate to Tarkin on the Death Star-- as he [Tarkin] was its commander. Outside the Death Star, command would naturally fall to Vader.
he was also the boss of vader on the star destroyer at the beginning of the film. tarkin was a regional governor, possible more with a name like "grand moff". regardless, he was the boss.
Governor Tarkin: The regional governors now have direct control over their territories.
Originally posted by focus4chumps
right its just a long string of coincidences that he's the one giving orders to vader/above vader and vader complies/supports those orders. at any point vader could have been like "its my turn to be boss." and tarkin would have taken bottom.
You missed this part:
IIRC, Vader makes use of some authority and resources while on the Death Star and of the Death Star without getting permission from Tarkin. Clearly, Vader has some power that is militarily mutually exclusive from Tarkin. One could argue that Vader outranks Tarkin and be equally correct as saying Tarkin outranks Vader.
And which orders did Tarkin give Vader that he followed through, exactly? I am not entirely sure they were "orders" orders...but, again, I could be wrong as I am not sure. It has been over a decade since I have seen the OT. Just haven't had time to make it through, yet.