Vegeta trained harder than Gohan but he still was weaker. Its not about how hard you train or Vegeta would be as strong as Gokou. I don't think he had the power or anything to achieve it without Babidi's help but that's just my thoughts. I think he used Babidi to get the power necessary to achieve it.
Vegeta was not weaker than Gohan at the beginning of the Buu saga, that's just ridiculous. Gohan became much weaker than at the Cell Games. Vegeta became stronger & in DBZ, it is about how hard you train as the Z Fighters always train hard & become strong hence why I believe seven years is long enough for Vegeta to become a Super Saiyan 2.
Gohan was not weaker than Vegeta at the beginning. Gohan still had his whole anger thing to unleash more power than Vegeta had. At normal levels without Gohan being angry than Vegeta would be stronger but Gohan had the hidden power thing still. Also Piccolo and Tien were hard trainers and they got left behind in the dust by the saiyans. Goten can go ssj and he was trained by ChiChi to fight. Both Goten and Trunks don't take training seriously and they are extremely powerful. We both have our views on which it is. Neither one can really be proved right. I believe that Vegeta used the power he got from Babidi to reach ssj2. He never showed he could before even though it could have easily shown him training at it in the gravity room when Trunks wasn't around and could do serious training.
Gohan has a lot of hidden potential, yes, but that doesn't make him stronger than Vegeta unless that potential is released. Even so, Goku states in the manga that Gohan is weaker than he was at the Cell Games & since Vegeta has been training, I'm sure he's become stronger. As for Piccolo, I wouldn't say he was left in the dust as we never saw him do anything in the Buu saga, he was kind of forgotten about by Akira Toriyama. Tien had been left in the dust after Vegeta & Nappa arrived on Earth. All of the humans were left in the dust. Piccolo was the only non-Saiyan to keep up, until the Buu saga that is.
Actually it does. Gohan was stronger than Piccolo and Gokou in the Saiyan Saga also but he couldn't tap that power unless he got angry. And Gohan was weaker with the power he could control but he was still more powerful than anybody else. We saw that with Buu with Piccolo's costume after Gotenks unfused was weaker than Gokou. Piccolo got strong as 17 by fusing with Kami. Just like he had to fuse with Nail to have the power to fight Freeza. He was left behind by them the moment they were able to beat somebody extremely more powerful than him. And the fact that Piccolo does nothing shows that he didn't have the power to do anything either. Also yes Tien was left in the dust after the Saiyan Saga but he still trained. Now he's a character Akira just forgot about. You don't see him in the Freeza Saga, you barley see him in the Cell Saga, you see him twice in the Buu Saga, and no once at the End of Z.
Though heres something I want to know. Goten and Trunks are perfect for the fusion dance because they are around the same size and the same power with Trunks being a bit more so he has to supress it. How can Vegeta and Gokou fuse? Gokou is a lot taller than Vegeta and Gokou has a lot more power. Wouldn't a fusion dance between them not work.
noooo!!!
During majin vegeta and goku's fight, majin vegeta states that the gap between them could never be filled.He states that no matter how hard he tries, goku would always be stronger. For that reason and for wanting to become evil again, he allowed babidi to control him, boosting his power up to that of a super sayain 2.
From the explanation given in the anime/manga, i don't think vegeta could go ss2 before that. That means that gohan is still stronger than him even with him losing some power over the 7 year period. Vegeta,without that boost in power, couldn't reach ss2.
Originally posted by Kento
Actually it does. Gohan was stronger than Piccolo and Gokou in the Saiyan Saga also but he couldn't tap that power unless he got angry. And Gohan was weaker with the power he could control but he was still more powerful than anybody else. We saw that with Buu with Piccolo's costume after Gotenks unfused was weaker than Gokou. Piccolo got strong as 17 by fusing with Kami. Just like he had to fuse with Nail to have the power to fight Freeza. He was left behind by them the moment they were able to beat somebody extremely more powerful than him. And the fact that Piccolo does nothing shows that he didn't have the power to do anything either. Also yes Tien was left in the dust after the Saiyan Saga but he still trained. Now he's a character Akira just forgot about. You don't see him in the Freeza Saga, you barley see him in the Cell Saga, you see him twice in the Buu Saga, and no once at the End of Z.Though heres something I want to know. Goten and Trunks are perfect for the fusion dance because they are around the same size and the same power with Trunks being a bit more so he has to supress it. How can Vegeta and Gokou fuse? Gokou is a lot taller than Vegeta and Gokou has a lot more power. Wouldn't a fusion dance between them not work.
Trust me, Gohan is not stronger than Vegeta at the beginning of the Buu saga. Wasn't he almost beaten by Goten who is weaker than Trunks who lost to Vegeta during a training session? I believe so. Why would Goku be able to become more powerful while Vegeta doesn't? That's like saying Goku can become more powerful by going in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber but when Vegeta goes in he won't become powerful at all. It's just stupid to say that Vegeta can't achieve the form. I'm not saying he perfected the form but I'm sure he at least reached the form by the beginning of the Buu saga, if not sooner.
I believe that both people have to lower their power levels until they're equal & then try the fusion. As for the height, I'm not entirely sure, I guess Akira just forgot all about the fact that the people fusing have to be the same height. He got pretty horrible with details by the Buu saga.
Gohan is a lot stronger than Vegeta. And he didn't nearly loose to Goten. He underestimated Goten thinking he was weak. Also Trunks was able to hit Vegeta (although barley) and take a full powered punch from Vegeta. Also Gokou always becomes more powerful by training. Vegeta came out of the room stronger than Gokou then proceeded to loose to Perfect Cell hardcore. Gokou goes in then come out the same amount of time stops training for that week or so while Vegeta keeps on training and then is able to go toe to toe with Perfect Cell. Gokou was also able to become strong enough to make Vegeta resort to Oozaru in just one year when he couldn't even handle Radditz. Gokou always seems to get stronger faster. It's not stupid to say he couldn't reach the form because he never said he could or couldn't. I still believe Vegeta needed the power boost to go ssj2. That's just my opinion. You have your own so.
The fusion dance was never used by Gokou and Vegeta in canon. I was just talking about the movies and GT. It would be impossible for Vegeta and Gokou to do that since they're nowhere near the same height unlike Goten and Trunks.
Gohan can't be stronger if he hadn't trained. That's like saying my friend is stronger than me if he hasn't picked up a weight in a year while I've been hitting the gym hardcore. Goku & Vegeta are very different so their training methods are also different. Goku decided to stay in the Super Saiyan form for a few days to perfect it & it helped him become as strong as Perfect Cell & you'd think that Vegeta & Trunks would do the same but Vegeta has too much pride to do something Kakarot/Goku has done. Moving on to the Trunks thing, Vegeta did not punch him full power, I doubt he'd inflict that kind of damage on his son. Yes, Trunks is strong but not strong enough to take a full powered punch from Vegeta.
Well, the movies were made by Toei who most of the time don't include details on how something can happen. Toei will do anything that works & sells more Dragonball Z DVD's. I doubt they even care if it can actually happen. And I wouldn't be surprised if somewhere down the line in the future we were to end up getting even more DBZ movies with even more things that can't happen in canon. I wouldn't mind but still, Toei could at least attempt to be creative.
Gohan was always stronger without training. Look at the Saiyan Saga. He was stronger than Radditz without ever being trained at all. It's his hidden power he has. He isn't able to tap into all the time until the old Kaioshin takes it all out but it's always there. DBZ world doesn't work the same way as real life. Also yes there training methods are different but he just stayed in ssj mode without training. He still became a lot stronger than Vegeta in the same amount of training. I was just pointing out that Gokou and Vegeta have both trained inside the room yet Gokou came out a lot stronger. Without even having to resort to using the USSJ form. Also Vegeta hit Trunks by reflex. He didn't realize it until after so I doubt he pull his punch though I don't think he was ssj while Trunks was. So it wasn't his full strength but it was his full base strength.
I doubt there will be anymore movies. It would be cool but they would probably take place after GT involving Gokou and Vegeta jr so yea I don't think so. Though I wouldn't mind a movie between that 100 year span that Gokou leaves. Maybe have Pan go ssj and Trunks and Goten achieve ssj2 and Vegeta win the fight because he can go ssj4 and Gokou's gone. Also have Gotenks in it.
Gohan has more hidden potential, yes, but without getting mad, he's not stronger than Vegeta in the Buu saga. And when Gohan went SSJ2, if Vegeta couldn't I'm sure he'd have made a comment either pointing that out. But, at the same time, he could've made a comment saying he was a SSJ2. I just have reason to believe he reached the form because he's always training & has always been known to become stronger. But, as you've said, there is no true answer as Akira Toriyama didn't let us know what was what.
There was already a movie made after GT ended in which it focused on Goku Jr. but I don't think Vegeta Jr. was shown. If there ever was some more movies made, they should be made to happen after the Buu saga. I'd love it if somehow Broly comes back & upon returning, he reaches an all new form never before seen or at least reaches the SSJ3 form. I'd love to see something to that extent in which everyone joins in the fight. That means Gohan, Adult Goten, Adult Trunks, Vegeta, Goku, Piccolo, etc. I'd love that. But, it probably won't happen. I have a better chance of buying the rights & making more movies myself.
But that's still Gohan's power. Its not some external power of anything. He just has to let it all loose by getting angry. So all in all Gohan would be more powerful just unable to show it normally. Also Vegeta already knows Gohan can go ssj2. He'd only say something against or for it if Gokou went ssj2 first. I must remember M. Vegeta vs Gokou fight...Who went ssj2 first? Gokou or Vegeta? I seriously can't remember it's been so long since I've watch it.
DBGT movie was a bit before the 100 year ending. Gokou jr wasn't ssj yet so it takes place before. So no Vegeta jr wasn't in it. I don't think Broli should return. He was killed. It actually showed him dying. How would he be brought back? And yea it would probably easier just to make the movies yourself after getting the rights. 10 years and really nothing besides games its a safe bet no movies are going to happen.
Still, it'd take for Gohan to get angry if he fought Vegeta but he wouldn't since you could say they're "friends" so pre-mystic form, Gohan would lose against Vegeta. Vegeta trained while Gohan didn't. Hidden power or not, Gohan is still weaker than Vegeta before he gained access to his mystic/ultimate form. As for the M. Vegeta vs Goku fight, I'm not entirely sure who went SSJ2 first, it's been a while since I've read the actual manga for that part of the saga.
I could've sworn I read that Goku Jr. turned Super Saiyan during that movie & it's after the 100 year ending of DBGT. Getting on to Broly, he could be brought back in some way, I wouldn't mind at all. I know he was killed, he could just be resurrected with a bunch of power in which he heads back to Earth to challenge the Z Fighters again. Personally, if I bought the rights from Toei, what I'd do is start a movie line completely separate from the ones Toei made & I'd redo the Broly movies & make entirely new movies in the process.
I didn't say Vegeta would loose to Gohan at the beginning of the Buu saga just that Gohan was stronger. Hmm for some reason I want to say Vegeta..But I think it was Gokou. I just remember Gokou sitting there with crossed arms going ssj2. But I can't remember if Vegeta did it first or not.
Gokou Jr. does turn ssj in the movie. But it's near the end. He's weak and stuff in the movie and he's searching for the dragonballs to help Pan. It's like a few months of so before the End of GT. If I had the rights..I'd just do a new series completely ignoring GT and taking place a few years after Z ends.
Gohan isn't stronger, he didn't train or anything. In canon, he didn't even lift a fist after the Cell Games ended. If someone had their arms crossed, it was more than likely Vegeta as he usually has his arms crossed but I think Goku may have been the one to go SSJ2 first.
Trust me, I plan on doing a lot with my life & if I have the money I want to buy the rights, make a new series, & remake a few of the movies. I just don't want DBZ to die out. It's too good of a legacy to just die out.
Gohan was more powerful than Vegeta. Just because he couldn't tap into all that power without being angry doesn't mean he didn't have it. Vegeta would win in a fight unless Gohan was able to get angry enough to unleash it all but Vegeta was never more powerful than Gohan. And no it was Gokou. He had a halo around his head and his hair was Gokou's. I just remember because I use to watch an AMV alot that had that scene in it.
If I had the money I could make an anime I think I'd do my own thing instead of keeping DB alive. The games are doing that. At least for me.
I'm telling you, man, Gohan is not more powerful than Vegeta. He has more potential at the beginning of the Buu saga, not more strength. It's not possible (even in the DBZ world) for someone to be stronger than someone else & he hasn't been training for seven years. Also, I just said I thought it was Goku.
I'm already making my own manga but I still want to buy the rights to DBZ so I'd be able to make a new series & movies. I'd love to have creative control over the rights, there'd be so much I could do to satisfy fans that weren't satisfied with GT. I could even take movie villains & give them their own sagas.