Kerry Bush officaial election thread

Started by hunchy14 pages

Attack? And slam people who don't agree with me? You just turned around what I said and said it against me...How have I slammed people...by saying that people have freedom of speech and you should respect that and that if you try to force your opinion on me than I don't respect you...I respect a LOT of people on here who disagree with me. I don't care if your against Bush, but when you slam me or others that are for Bush then I defend myself and tell you what I think...your one of those people PVS...that I have lost respect for...I do not force my opinion on anyone...

"Sorry PVS, its called Freedom of Speech and if someone came on here saying "JOHN KERRY" I wouldn't be a jerk and slam him...Because I respect people's opinions unless they try to force theirs on me..."

That's what I said and then you turned around and said the same thing against me...

look, its getting late, im getting tired, and i dont feel like copy n pasting all your nasty remarks toward others who refuse to buy what your selling.

Wow and I value what you think of me oh so damn much [/sarcasm]
OMG, some random dude on the net thinks im a douche, Im gonna die!

I think thats your way of weasling your way out of the question PVS...

"look, its getting late, im getting tired, and i dont feel like copy n pasting all your nasty remarks toward others who refuse to buy what your selling."

Because I never did slam anyone...I shoot back at those who shoot at me...I call that defending myself...not slamming someone...Let's not be hypocrites here PVS.

And sorry to get personal, but what time do you go to bed? Or is the time different over there in New Jersey? Well, while it is also true that there are many douche bags on the net...I won't point anyone out...(I mean, just watch the ending of Jay and Silent Back where some talk backers get their asses kicked by the title characters) you shouldn't and won't care what I think...The point on these debate forums are to simply DEBATE others...you state your opinion...they state theirs....

you constantly insult others, so stop being a hypocrite.
you were even served a temporary banning for stalking and insulting me like it was your career. and please stop preaching "respect everyones opinion" until you actually decide to practice what you preach, ok?

Everyone is a hypocrite at sometime PVS, me included. I'll take my advice. Take your advice and it'll work out too.

From a certain point of view, you can see things 3 or 4 different ways.

On the issue of war in Iraq,

The reason for war was simple. Saddam didn't take George W. Bush seriously when Bush stated, "Allow inspections without hinderances, or face consequences."

Bush then allowed 2 more months and 2 more resolutions to run through the UN, then on March 19th, 2003 Saddam was attacked for not dealing with president Bush seriously in light of the terrorist attack.

Saddam should have taken Bush seriously. Too bad Bush is underestimated and not taken seriously. That caused a war. It is, however, Saddam's fault for not knowing that. Bush's position was to allow him to continue to play games and to be told he was going to suffer more resolutions, or remove him from office after 18 resolutions in the UN.

I support Bush because he got pulled in to a war, and when given the decision to say yes BUSH made us go to war, or Saddam made us go to war.... I'm for America PVS. Who are you for? Cause if you think Bush is worth slamming for getting us into a war, what about Saddam? He isn't EVIL? Most people know Saddam is no good. This is why I don't know why you stand where you stand and why you decide to stand with what Kerry says on this issue that Bush took us to war.

Originally posted by kingcoot
I'm for America PVS. Who are you for? Cause if you think Bush is worth slamming for getting us into a war, what about Saddam? He isn't EVIL? Most people know Saddam is no good. This is why I don't know why you stand where you stand and why you decide to stand with what Kerry says on this issue that Bush took us to war.

so, if i dont support bush's method for going to war unilaterally, im not for america? what kind of BS is that? and EVIL? there are evil dictators all over the globe, many put in power by force compliments of our government. politics is not as simple as good and evil. it SHOULD be, but we are a long way off. dont buy into this mentallity where questioning authority is 'unamerican' as it is very much american. the united states was formed by people who questioned authority, and found that authority to be obsolete. our contitution was based on a mistrust of those with power. and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

so, maybe you mistyped what you said, and meant something else, and i hope so, because i find the post 9-11 'unamerican' accusation to be deeply insulting.

anyway, bush chose to basically say f*** you to the U.N. after saddam was captured, it was certain that peace would not restore itself magically, and people were NOT dancing in the streets showing our soldiers with kisses and rose pedals, as bush had insisted.

the 'coalition of the willing' is not the same as a u.n. resolution...it has about the weight of a verbal agreement and we are seeing proof of that after all nations besides britain have backed out. bush should have pushed for a resolution, and fought to get one. he just said 'up yours' and went to war.
we needed the support of the u.n., so that it would be EVERYONE'S RESPONSABILITY. with the right pressure and coaxing, the u.n. would have dropped their ridiculous 1 year requirement and compromised, but bush would not have it.

my hope is that kerry is elected and literally BEGS the u.n. for aid. the only side i see which is humble enough to ask for a favor rather than demand is democrats. we need help. our troops are the best in the world, but they are only human, and it seems like they will never come home. how long do you think they will last in a war? how long would you last? its easy to sit in the lap of luxury and talk about the cost of war as if its mere figures and dollar signs, but what of our troops who have been in that shithole since jan 2003 and remain there indefinately. i'm for them. i want them to come home. i want other nations to send troops in to relieve ours. now, how is that not being for america?

Originally posted by PVS
bush chose to basically say f*** you to the U.N. after saddam was captured, it was certain that peace would not restore itself magically, and people were NOT dancing in the streets showing our soldiers with kisses and rose pedals, as bush had insisted.

my hope is that kerry is elected and literally BEGS the u.n. for aid. the only side i see which is humble enough to ask for a favor rather than demand is democrats. we need help. our troops are the best in the world, but they are only human, and it seems like they will never come home. how long do you think they will last in a war? how long would you last? its easy to sit in the lap of luxury and talk about the cost of war as if its mere figures and dollar signs, but what of our troops who have been in that shithole since jan 2003 and remain there indefinately. i'm for them. i want them to come home. i want other nations to send troops in to relieve ours. now, how is that not being for america?

WHOAHH WHOAHH since January 2003???? We were still in the UN doing the RESOLUTION thing.. the WAR was declared on March 19th, 2003.

To all that you say, I agree. There is another problem with what Kerry would do. If you show at all that you will wait, and that you care what people think, the terrorists may beable to react faster than all of them put together, because coordinating an attack with many is alot more difficult. Also, the terrorists could be more confident in them selves when they see the US begging for help. Kerry doesn't see that part of the possibility. Here is a metaphor I wrote that explains why America doesn't care what some countries think and some democrats like yourself. I begin it with how a leader leads:

**I've just realized something about America. We care too much what other countries think. I mean, not us, the democrats think too much about what others think. That isn't how you lead. That is why in the debates Bush said, you need to lead, and he said it because Kerry thinks to much about how the polls will treat him so he says yes to alot of both sides of the issue.

And really, if countries want to keep being anti-american, it reminds me of this little metaphor.
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Have you ever gotten in to trouble with your mom or dad? Your other sibling (usually younger) got off scotfree and you got in trouble. More so the Older child gets this. I call that the America child. The younger one is the 3rd world country. The mom or dad is the European country (France or some English/Wales or whatever). They tell you to stop fighting with your younger brother because you shouldn't have to resort to fighting. The younger brother though, had counted on this. The younger brother (Saddam) knew that if he kept teasing the older brother that the mom and dad would disapprove. The older brother had kept quiet for 10 years after this (1991 to 2001) The oldest brother kept making the case to the mom and dad (UN/other eurpean countries) that his younger brother keeps on teasing him and won't do exactly what he was supposed to. The mom and dad lecture him and tell him that the older brother needs to be left alone and stop pestering him. 5 more months go by and the parents keep telling the younger brother to tell them where he put his older brothers medical insurance. The younger brother denies that he had taken them, but he won't cooperate with the parents fully. The older brother tells the younger brother, tell me where my insurance papers are. The younger brother really won't say, and he thinks he wouldn't get the s**t kicked out of him because his parents won't like it, so he finds it funny to not tell him where he put it, even if he never took them. The older brother punches the younger brother now 20 ( the older brother is now 22) and the parents to no amazement side with the younger child who is not really much younger than the older child. The parents find out that the younger child had not even taken the papers in the first place. The younger child knew he would get puched and did so because the older child would get scolded by his parents. The older child wouldn't care what the parents thought because he just had lost his medical papers and really needed them because he just lost his arm in a gang attack on him. The older brother sat there thinking. I lost my arm, my parents hate me, and my fricken little brother who has tormented me just got support from my parents even though I lost an arm a few month ago.
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I'm saying that if the other countries would agree to support us UNCONDITIONALLY that would show everyone who is trying to kill us, that they have something to deal with. Instead we now are a broken family and are parents don't even support us. To me there should be no difference with a family or the world. When you step away from your keyboard and think about how much everyone cares about the Amercian troops, I too thank them that they are out there, and that no bombs were set off here at home while they were off at war.

Do you know for sure Kerry is able to convince France and Germany to provide troops when we take our troops home? I know what we did for Enlgand during the first part of World War II. We didn't join the war right away in the 1940s. France and Germany aren't going to leave troops for this war against terrorists when they see us pulling them out.
Kerry thinks well for people, but he doesn't know how difficult it is to do what he wants. Bush won't stop fighting Osama bin Laden. Most people know he wants to hunt those people down. Do we just hand it off to other countries, they will need our help, but then again, they didn't experience the need to invade Afganistan and remove the taliban. It'll be tough for America with whoever is president.

One last thing. Terrorists are human too, they break.

See the thing is, Bush is going at the terrorists in the wrong way, by hunting them all down and bombing the shit outta places he thinks they are, he's accually creating more terrorists. Do you think thatThe kids who's familys are killed by US Bombs are gonna grow up loving the US? No their gonna become terrosits!
We gotta stop doing things that piss them off, like insiting revolts in Nicaragua, Like regan.

Don't care what people think about us, the terrorists that are out there will kill us whether we attacked them or not. September 11th, 2001, why did people bomb us? Were they angry, did they make a mistake? Were we responsible? DUDE! They made a mistake, and we are taking it OVER SEAS, and so AMERICAN CIVILIANS won't be killed. THAT is the function of the US Government!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

People... When is it America's time to do what it needs for itself? Do you know if you do what other countries say you should do, ITS LIKE WE BELONG UNDER THEIR GOVERNMENT!

Our parent countries do not own us. We seperated from them, and there are clear descisions made on why. We didn't agree with their governement, and that is why we still cannot agree. Part of living and making decisions is that "people don't always agree". And you can't make them agree. So sometimes you have to do what is right for yourself. This is that time. Given any point in history, when did we have our cause justified? Pearl Harbor, and NewYork City WTC.

OR MAYBE, IT'S LIKE WE'RE ALLIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

When I say we belong to them, its more like, OWNING US.
Slavery is Illegal here in the US, I wish people would understand.

Originally posted by kingcoot

Our parent countries do not own us. We seperated from them, and there are clear descisions made on why. We didn't agree with their governement, and that is why we still cannot agree.

So you're saying that more than 200 years and enourmous changes in government have no say because we just have to "disagree with the parent country"?

I'm asking, when can we stand up for what we believe in and not have other countries tell us how to function with how their government functions. You people forgot that the countries in Europe didn't really jump on to the idea of attacking the Taliban. They love to know that they can decide for what the US does, because then they have some importance in the world.

If you don't like Bush, I don't think you've been reading every word. Thats nice that you just chose to miss some information.

Stalking you? I wouldn't stalk you in a lifetime...I debated you in this forum and you called that stalking you...I believe I was banned for two days because you PM'd me where you yelled at me and cussed at me...going beserk because I asked if you were from New Jersey and if so, that that would explain things...Yes, it wasn't the niceset thing to say...everyone has said mean things on here...However, that had NOTHING to do with not respecting your opinion...I didn't say that you like John Kerry and don't like Bush or the war...Your dumb! I never said anything of the sort...it was your attitude that I didn't like...because right away you'd shoot me down when I stated that I was for Bush and saying my opinion.

"you constantly insult others, so stop being a hypocrite.
you were even served a temporary banning for stalking and insulting me like it was your career. and please stop preaching "respect everyones opinion" until you actually decide to practice what you preach, ok?"

hunchy, you cry like a 6 year old girl with a skinned knee.
can you please just drop your obsession with me?
you are proving nothing but how obnoxious you are.

It's funny...you shoot comebacks at me...and then when I respond you call it whining...and stalking you...don't respond to me if you don't want me to respond back. It's as simple as that...you've said before that I stalked you, and that you were gonna stop talking to me...yet you continue to talk to me...I think people are hearing enough bickering...Again you say I'm obnoxious, because you don't like the points I bring up...and that's all you can say, because you know you have nothing to say back...Plus, I think this sounds more like whining:

""no no no no NO.

wtf does saddam hussein have to do with this?"

Actually PVS, you prove hunchy's point by calling him a name and calling him obnoxious.

From what I have learned on these forums, Bush supporters have debated Kerry supporters and have been reamed for trying to get anyone supporting Kerry to acknowledge a plan Kerry has that is significant to what Bush is saying, and one that won't show the terrorists how much the world can run us while they attack us. I'd rather have the Americans control what the americans do so we have full speed to stop a threat. Countries can decide not to join us no matter who the executive officer is. The problem is, we are all Americans to them. We must remember that. Whoever wins this election will need so much support. I think PVS would agree if he truly is open minded. I know we have to come together, but just before an election it seems like the other opponent is the Devil. I felt that way when Clinton got reelected in 1996, but I couldn't vote. Now I can and did in 2000 and 2004.

What we need to do as party members after this election is to not dwell on what is wrong with America. The whole Kerry campaign seems to me to be negative about the chances America has at working with the world. Bush thinks highly of Americas chances. Positive thinkers tend to get something done. After this, if Kerry is elected, I hope he speaks more positive about the war in Iraq. If Bush is elected, I hope he continues to be as positive about Iraq's recovery as he has been and that he finds friendships with more nations.