Who was a better batman Adam West or Michael Keaton?

yeah well said Bakerboy.you just shot down that poor excuse those two are making for batman being a wipm in that movie.We have tried to spell it out for them as best as they can but they want to keep on coming up with lame ass excuses as always.please give me a break,he stumbled briefly,after that,it shows him walking rapidly up the steps and its so obvious that by that time he had recovered.Again well said Bakerboy,you pointed out so well how those are poor excuses to use for his terrible fighting skills.because like you said,in the comics,Batman has beatem MANY people far stronger than that dude was while seriously hurt so for the umpteenth time,that was horrible film making,I could go into several details on WHY it is not only a horrible comicbook movie,but horrible as a movie as well but I wont since that would be off topic..a guy who in real life would EASILY have beat that guy blindfolded since he is trained in all forms of combat.at least schumacher didnt make that stupid mistake with HIS batman when he was fighting.man stop putting words in my mouth.I didnt say I liked Kilmer better because he came closer to fitting the role,I said I liked him better because not only did he at least physically fit the role,but he behaved MUCH more like the bruce wayne from the comics than keaton did and his acting was impressive in the times he got to say serious lines.I liked him better because of those TWO reasons. 🙄

Originally posted by pr1983
ffs...

first of all, its a movie, an adaptation of a comic, did u watch the other comic movies? i've read plenty of batman comics, and i've seen him recover from tons of shit, but if u put that on a screen people are gonna think its ridiculous. its a little thing called artistic license, they have to make him seem more human. his technique wasn't bad at all, and he came through most of his fights pretty well imo.

as for intelligence and tactics, they don't do shit if you've just crashed down the middle of a street and f*cked yourself up.

"hey my ribs are cracked and i might have brain damage, but my tactics will help me!"

bullshit.

please its just a comicbook movie.There are SEVERAL things in that film that are FAR more rediculous than that. so give it up with that lame argument.there was never any indication afterwards that his ribs were cracked.Looked like he was walking around pretty fine to me afterwards,and he didnt have brain damage so stop with the poor excuses already. 🙄

omfg... *bangs head against wall* wtf are u guys taking? seriously?

nobody recovers from a crash that quickly, the huiman body is incapable of it. he got up the stairs so quickly because vicki was in trouble. running up some stairs and fighting bad guys are two completely different things.

and parker, what comics did u read that made kilmer seem more like bats? the ones where u just looked at the pictures?

Obviously you have only read parts of my posts when you have read them and not the whole thing because I jave spelled it out to dozens of times WHY he should have EASILY handled that guy but you refuse to admit it.and the batman from the comics doesnt act like a doofus around women like keaton did and cant remember which room he is in.You would know that if you ever read the comics. 🙄

Well, as a reply to what Mr. Parker and Bakerboy keep saying, it's a bad excuse, you are wrong my friends. Bruce in Forever never had to even look at a guy bigger than him! Like I said before, all he fought was runts with guns. I for one, like that Batman gets his ass beat some times, he shows that he's only human and that's the hero part of it. And like I said before, Kilmer shouldn't have been chosen at all. But it seems I have a question for everyone who posted here...Who's your favorite Batman director(mine is Tim Burton) and it has to be from past movies(so no Chris Nolan or whatever) and by the way, as I was watching my collection of Bat-films the other day, I noticed something, Bruce gets shot in 1 and 3. Joker shoots him right after his trademark line, "Have you ever danced with the devil by the pale moon light?" "What?" "It's something I say to all my victims, I like the way it sounds." Blam!
And one more thing, you guys have to be insane to think Bruce would be able to beat some guy with his eyes blind folded! Impossible! The guyz only human or have you forgot that?

hm....respectfully, bat dude.....i think some o two face's thugs were pretty big.....look at a quick shot at when he's jumped off the building at nygma's party, and they shunt him into a dead end subway construction and you see some guy turning on a gas valve----it's just a quick flash, but golly, he's a heck of a lot bigger than batman/bruce wayne/val kilmer, any way you'd like to slice him.

Obviously you have only read parts of my posts when you have read them and not the whole thing because I jave spelled it out to dozens of times WHY he should have EASILY handled that guy but you refuse to admit it.and the batman from the comics doesnt act like a doofus around women like keaton did and cant remember which room he is in.You would know that if you ever read the comics.

first of all, Ive read your posts, and they are funny.

as for the room thing? its so blatantly obvious, he was pretending, to break the ice with vicki, ffs, havent you ever acted like a bit of an eejit to make a woman laugh? come on.

saying the same thing dozens of times doies not count. fact is bats beat him n all, despite the fact he was injured.

i can't believe i'm debating this with the manspider twins.

i'm not going to bother anymore

Originally posted by Mr Parker
and the batman from the comics doesnt act like a doofus around women like keaton did and cant remember which room he is in.

eh....sigh....i think he did that as a joke. Meaning his place is so big, even he can't figure out which room he's in. Vale laughs right after he said that and he smiles to show he has a sense of humor. Plus, it's a way to break the ice and invite her to a more cozy dinner with Alfred. 🙄

As for fighting that big dude in the clock tower. Again, Batman facing opponents working for the biggest criminal in Gotham. Not some lowly thug who he can just spread his cape and scare the shit out of. And yes, he did get his ass kicked in Batman: Year One. By a bunch of hookers!! If you want to compare time periods, that is. And Keaton's Bats seemed pretty fine at kicking those goons with the swords and guns in the middle alley scene. AND again, 1988 (or 1989)--no need for Neo Matrix-style kungfu. Not saying Batman Forever used those either, but it satisfied audiences for the time.

Physically or not, I think Keaton's Wayne showed more depth to character. He's always shown in his cave thinking, reminiscing. Whenever he's deep in thought (aka watching Joker's threatening commercials, staring at Vale and the other dude through his cameras, etc), he scrunges up his eyebrows...it's a piercing gaze. Even in Batman REturns, in the beginning when he is summoned for help against the Circus Gang, he's in his room, in "The Thinker" position. And as Bats, he tells Vale "it's not a normal world now is it?" --totally shows his torment. When she discovers his secret, he is reluctant to tell her the truth ("look sometimes even I don't know what's going on.........it's not a perfect world. It's just something I have to do. Cuz nobody else can."😉 I mean, c'mon....that's totally classic. You're moved by it. You can feel his struggle. I can see Keaton's BATMAN AND WAYNE talking like he does in the comics....ie. imagine his character in any of them, Bruce Wayne: Fugitive, NO Man's Land, HUSH--he would totally fit. he can be slick, goofy, and serious all at once.

Vilmer on the other hand, has to seek a therapist to whine about his problems. He sounds more like Anakin in Star Wars II--a pitiful boy who needs to discuss his "dreams." He doesn't show torment or suffering...he speaks in a monotone voice about falling into a cave, finding the red book, etc (after a while I always fast forward those parts cuz they were...ugh...so...freaking...slow...). As an aside, during Two-Face's attack on the Graysons, HE FREAKING JUMPED in the crowd to fight the goons--who chose him to be hero???. Nice way to blow your identity, Mr. Wayne. "Harvey, I'M BATMAN!!!" 🙄

Again, all about delivery.
Who sounds scarier? "I want you to do me a favor, I want you to tell ALL your friends about me. I'm BATMAN"
OR
"Aren't you forgetting something, Harvey? Your coin..."
Sorry that's the best I can come up with for Kilmer. I seriously can't find one instance where he talked in a raspy, scary voice to the villains. Someone find me one, please. 😉

Sorry for the long post. It's just whenever you ask the general public who was the better Bats, they say Keaton. Only comic fans would debate about it--AND i still vote Keaton. He'll be remembered for being THE BATMAN (as opposed to Mr. Mom or whatever). And not just cuz Tim Burton's films made it more mature, less fruity, and had a polar-opposite villain to combat Batman's darkness. Keaton knew how to act as the character we've all come to love in the comics.

But hey...to each his own.

Respect 😎

Classic Keaton Batisms
"EAt floor, high fiber."
"Admiring your handiwork? You're not the mayor. What do you want? Things change..."
"'scuse me, have you ever danced with the devil in the pale moonlight?" <PUNCH!!>
"You weigh a little more than 108" (Hilarious even at a serious time)
"They're psychotic"
"You're right, I could...but there's something else that you got that I want." <lift cape>
"I made you. You made me first."
"Shutup...you're going to jail."

Keaton As Wayne:
"It matters to me." (after Shrek said "it doen'st matter who's mayor."😉
"Alright, just shut up. I like you a lot, but for now, just shut up. I have something to tell you." (to Vale)
"A kiss is even deadlier...if u mean it..."
"Alfred, let's go shopping."
"Oh and...give Knox a grant." (smooooooth)

Vilmer as Bats: (these are the lines I liked)
"If Bruce Wayne could've given his life to your parents, he would have."
"I don't fit well at a Sunday picnic."
"I see without seeing. To me, darkness is as bright as day. What am I? Exactly"

Vilmer as Wayne:
"What the hell do you think you were doing?"
"I can stop you."
"Is that the technical term?"

See the thing is, I think Kilmer was TRYING to act like Keaton's portrayal of the Dark Knight. Batman and Batman Returns did well and people loved Keaton so in order for Kilmer to be accepted, he had to imitate that version of Bats. But combined with some weak lines (not to mention the lisp) and having to deal with colorful wily goons, Kilmer seemed confused how to be HIS version of Bats. Maybe if he had been Bats from the beginning and Tim Burton as director, he'd have soemthing better to work with--again, not judgeable since it didn't happen.

Keaton's Wayne was never goofy like C. Reeve's Clark Kent. He never said "Golly" or "uh....uh...s..s..sorry Mr. White" or "A Hamburger...at 9 AM?" or in general stuttered when he talked. Or get stuck in doors on purpose or walk through traffic like a bumbling idiot. Remember when Keaton's Wayne walked to Crime Alley to lay his rose or to the press conference? Even in public, he's serious, not geeky like Clark. On that note, Reeves played an awesome Clark and Superman.

Peace

Lets see. We will going by parts:

Batman wasnt that injured in the clock tower, he hasnt any damage brain or something like that, the proof he had enough strenght to catch vicky vale and beat the joker. Hadly, he could do it with any brain damage or another important injury. That is only another stupid excuse from people who doesnt know a shit abot the character. So, batman with some pain and hurt couldnt beat a slow and stupid guy because it would be ridiculous in a superheroe movie? in the same movie based in a comic book with a guy with a bat costume and with a lot of weapons and vehicles that made of james bond or the usa governement army like a children game? the same movie when a guy fall down in a tank of chemichal products and doesnt die and loooks exaclty as a clow? Very logical.
🙄 🙄

Also , keaton wasnt doing a joke with vicky, he was a goofy idiot. See the scene of him not remember what to going when alfred said to him that gordon went out of the party suspiciously. Or in batman returns in the elevator scene with selina, or in wayne manor with selina when he saw the news on tv and doesnt remember where is the entry to the bat cave. And that is typical in bruce wayne? Please, that isnt bruce wayne, that is a bad copy of Reeves Clark Kent. Bruce would act as Kilmer played him, a play boy arrogant at times, misterious at the others, never a dumb ass as keaton was.

And , keaton in a thinking posse in his chair is a good acting for somebody? please, even steven seagal could do that posse. The character of bruce wayne is NEVER ENOUGH DEVELOPED IN THE BATMAN MOVIES. all the story was about the joker in the first one and about the penguin and catwoman in the second one. To have some scenes in a thinking posse isnt enough in a character like bruce wayne .

i can't believe i'm debating this with the manspider twins.

i'm not going to bother anymore [/B][/QUOTE]

smart move since you lost the debate a longgggggg time ago and have been proven wrong so many times on this thread.. 😄 also,I seriously doubt that you did read all the post instead of parts of it because you conviently ignored points that shot down your poor excuse for him being a poor fighter.

Originally posted by bakerboy
Lets see. We will going by parts:

Batman wasnt that injured in the clock tower, he hasnt any damage brain or something like that, the proof he had enough strenght to catch vicky vale and beat the joker. Hadly, he could do it with any brain damage or another important injury. That is only another stupid excuse from people who doesnt know a shit abot the character. So, batman with some pain and hurt couldnt beat a slow and stupid guy because it would be ridiculous in a superheroe movie? in the same movie based in a comic book with a guy with a bat costume and with a lot of weapons and vehicles that made of james bond or the usa governement army like a children game? the same movie when a guy fall down in a tank of chemichal products and doesnt die and loooks exaclty as a clow? Very logical.
🙄 🙄

Also , keaton wasnt doing a joke with vicky, he was a goofy idiot. See the scene of him not remember what to going when alfred said to him that gordon went out of the party suspiciously. Or in batman returns in the elevator scene with selina, or in wayne manor with selina when he saw the news on tv and doesnt remember where is the entry to the bat cave. And that is typical in bruce wayne? Please, that isnt bruce wayne, that is a bad copy of Reeves Clark Kent. Bruce would act as Kilmer played him, a play boy arrogant at times, misterious at the others, never a dumb ass as keaton was.

And , keaton in a thinking posse in his chair is a good acting for somebody? please, even steven seagal could do that posse. The character of bruce wayne is NEVER ENOUGH DEVELOPED IN THE BATMAN MOVIES. all the story was about the joker in the first one and about the penguin and catwoman in the second one. To have some scenes in a thinking posse isnt enough in a character like bruce wayne .

yeah well said Bakerboy.Again great points on why Keaton was a horrible Bruce wayne and Kilmer was the better.again as I said earlier,the general public only pick keaton over Kilmer because Keaton is more of an accomplished actor and has done more quality movies than Kilmer has and is also a more well liked person in real life than Kilmer is.I have already mentioned that the public and the bat fans as well just cant get past that Bias to see that Kilmer was the better of the two. thats why they are making BATMAN BEGINS because hollywood heard so much backlash over the fans out crys over how they hated keaton as batman.as I said earlier,I have encountered many people over the years that felt the same as I did,that they hated the first two batman films because of how miscast keaton was for the role.

I have not heard of a big out lash becuase of
Keaton.

That outlash came whith Clonney. Not Keaton.

And Keaton was the better Batman.

OMG dude (not Mr. Parker), did you even read what I wrote?

In the COMICS, he got beaten by hookers in Year One. Not Croc, not Bane, not Clayface. If you want to compare it to comics, BATMAN takes place around a similar time, when he's just getting discovered by Gotham citizens. He's handled the run of the mills mugger rather easily, but EVEN in the Animated Series, he gets beaten by thugs from time to time, only to rebound in a crafty way (similar to Keaton's BAts hiding beneath the bell so he can grab the guy with his feet). In the comics too. In HUSH, when he gets his line cut, he falls, breaks his shoulder, and lies in a heap of mess, debilitated and had it not been for Huntress's arrival, would've had his ass handed to him by coupla punks. Keaton wasn’t injured since he managed to rescue Vale and defeat the Joker? The fact that Keaton's BAts rescued Vale and defeated the Joker didn't mean he wasn't injured--it just MEANT HE COULD do it EVEN if he WAS injured. Joker can't fight for sh*t anyway. Are we comparing the Joker's fighting abilites to that of the big goon now? Gimme a break.

Did you NOT watch the alley scene when he kicked those Joker goons' asses? What bout when he fought the Circus Gang? This is Bats, in top form...no crash. NO complaints about his fighting abilities there.

In Forever, when he fought Two-Face's men in the beginning, he was in top form. Again when he fought Two-Face's goons at the party--he was in top form. But what happened when he DID get injured? He gets buried in a pile of fiery debris (similar to the plane crash in Batman) and needs Dick to rescue him.

As for his pose, it's just one of many things Burton ALLOWED audiences to see him do. Simple as that. It shows him deep in thought. That combined with all the previously mentioned scenes, convinced me enough that Keaton portrayed Wayne's character deeply.

Again, not remembering the room is a joke to make his date laugh, because it's a plot device to develop Wayne’s character. He’s rich and has this huge mansion, throws parties for the most famous citizens, but in the end, he’s a guy a woman can approach. He prefers bringing this girl to eat with his best friend Alfred rather than at a longass table with a thousand cutlery and utensils just for the formality. Because, guess what, Bruce ACTUALLY likes this one (Vale). She’s not some casual date that he has to flaunt his wealth to. Seemed obvious to me.

And I suggest you watch Clark Kent more carefully in the Superman movies to show how EXTREMELY more bumbling he is compared to Keaton's Wayne.

Reeve's Clarkisms:

"Uh...ex...excuse me, Mi-Miss Lane."
"Oh....my god...." (When Lois jumped into Niagara River)
"S..ss..son!" (Clark montioning the kid to get off the banisters at Niagara Falls)
"Oh my gosh..i must've fainted."
Clark missing the subway.
Clark missing elevators.
Clark blocking the TV at Daily Planet.
Clark walking through traffic and getting hit.
Clark being extremely shy around Lacy.

Did you REALLY HONESTLY picture Keaton's Wayne saying all of his lines to a similar degree? Or acting the same way? Didn't think so.

Originally posted by Joker1237
I have not heard of a big out lash becuase of
Keaton.

That outlash came whith Clonney. Not Keaton.

And Keaton was the better Batman.

you dont get out enough then obviously because i have heard it hundreds of times over the years.

Originally posted by SpyCspider
OMG dude (not Mr. Parker), did you even read what I wrote?

In the COMICS, he got beaten by hookers in Year One. Not Croc, not Bane, not Clayface. If you want to compare it to comics, BATMAN takes place around a similar time, when he's just getting discovered by Gotham citizens. He's handled the run of the mills mugger rather easily, but EVEN in the Animated Series, he gets beaten by thugs from time to time, only to rebound in a crafty way (similar to Keaton's BAts hiding beneath the bell so he can grab the guy with his feet). In the comics too. In HUSH, when he gets his line cut, he falls, breaks his shoulder, and lies in a heap of mess, debilitated and had it not been for Huntress's arrival, would've had his ass handed to him by coupla punks. Keaton wasn’t injured since he managed to rescue Vale and defeat the Joker? The fact that Keaton's BAts rescued Vale and defeated the Joker didn't mean he wasn't injured--it just MEANT HE COULD do it EVEN if he WAS injured. Joker can't fight for sh*t anyway. Are we comparing the Joker's fighting abilites to that of the big goon now? Gimme a break.

Did you NOT watch the alley scene when he kicked those Joker goons' asses? What bout when he fought the Circus Gang? This is Bats, in top form...no crash. NO complaints about his fighting abilities there.

In Forever, when he fought Two-Face's men in the beginning, he was in top form. Again when he fought Two-Face's goons at the party--he was in top form. But what happened when he DID get injured? He gets buried in a pile of fiery debris (similar to the plane crash in Batman) and needs Dick to rescue him.

As for his pose, it's just one of many things Burton ALLOWED audiences to see him do. Simple as that. It shows him deep in thought. That combined with all the previously mentioned scenes, convinced me enough that Keaton portrayed Wayne's character deeply.

Again, not remembering the room is a joke to make his date laugh, because it's a plot device to develop Wayne’s character. He’s rich and has this huge mansion, throws parties for the most famous citizens, but in the end, he’s a guy a woman can approach. He prefers bringing this girl to eat with his best friend Alfred rather than at a longass table with a thousand cutlery and utensils just for the formality. Because, guess what, Bruce ACTUALLY likes this one (Vale). She’s not some casual date that he has to flaunt his wealth to. Seemed obvious to me.

And I suggest you watch Clark Kent more carefully in the Superman movies to show how EXTREMELY more bumbling he is compared to Keaton's Wayne.

Reeve's Clarkisms:

"Uh...ex...excuse me, Mi-Miss Lane."
"Oh....my god...." (When Lois jumped into Niagara River)
"S..ss..son!" (Clark montioning the kid to get off the banisters at Niagara Falls)
"Oh my gosh..i must've fainted."
Clark missing the subway.
Clark missing elevators.
Clark blocking the TV at Daily Planet.
Clark walking through traffic and getting hit.
Clark being extremely shy around Lacy.

Did you REALLY HONESTLY picture Keaton's Wayne saying all of his lines to a similar degree? Or acting the same way? Didn't think so.

well that was just a horribly written story by the writers obviously of him getting beat up by hookers.Kinda like how I was hated the spiderman storys where he got the crap beat out of him by kingpin a normal human being with no special powers,spidey a guy who can lift a bus over his head,should easily wipe the floor with kingpin in the comics and cartoons,in both cases,thats just bad writing on the writers part.

see thats the thing,in HUSH its believeable that he is seriously injured,in the movie it is not.as I mentioned earlier,after his little stubling bit,he looked like he was recovered and ready to go the way he climbed up the steps rapidly after that.again very bad writing on the writers part for that movie just like in those instances in the comics i mentioned with spidey and bats was bad writing.yes I watched the alley scene where he kicked the jokers goons asses and thats why it is inexcusable for him to have gotten the crap beat out of him by the goon of the jokers,he was enough recovered at that point to where he could have beaten that guy blindfolded with all his martial arts training he has. 🙄 seemed obvious to me that he really did not even know where he was in the mansion and had no recollection.Im not saying he said all the same lines like reeve did in superman,Im saying that it looks like he copied reeves performance as being a doofus around Kim Basinger instead of being calm and cool around her like Kilmer was with Chase.Kilmer behaved more like Bruce wayne does and thats one of a few reasons I think Kilmer was so much better for the role than Keaton.Netiehr one of us are going to change the others mind so it seems pointless to continue the discussion at this point.

smart move since you lost the debate a longgggggg time ago and have been proven wrong so many times on this thread.. also,I seriously doubt that you did read all the post instead of parts of it because you conviently ignored points that shot down your poor excuse for him being a poor fighter.

i didn't lose... in fact i'd say im winning... what thread are u reading? i read everything, and how exactly did u prove me wrong? who shot down my excuse? you guys tried, but failed to listen to what is a decent point.

thats because you made no decent points and YOU failed to listen to the points that addressed them many times.deal with it,you lost a long time ago.you and batdude dont need to take defeat too badly though,it happens to the best of us. 😄 good bye,im done with this thread.

good riddance, you were never in contention anyway... it'd be so much easier if you just accepted getting beaten...

This is stupid, Keaton wins hands down. SpyCspider, great post, best post I've read. I think there are 1...2...3...and I think 4 people who have great reasons why Keaton's Batman and Bruce Vanye is better.(sorry got that from BATMAN, the mirror scene)"Look at this, maybe he should be called Bruce Vayne" Alexander Knox, BATMAN "Oh, look! He must have been king of the Wicker people!" Alexander Knox, BATMAN
Anyway, you guyz need to look past the physical part(it's not that important, only about a third)what's more important is how well the actor can bring out his personality(Keaton did an AMAZING job)

And this is off topic but Spider-Man and Spider-Man 2 were probably the best Marvel Movies made(next to Blade)I've never seen Superman or the other Superman movies(quest of peace, etc.) but I want to so I can see how you guyz are comparing. On History channel(Superheroes unmasked)it said BATMAN revolutionized the hero movie biz. It was a great movie, period. Forever might have been better if Tim Burton directed.