Not the point. uhuh
But yeah, Punk Hazzard is still better than Fishmen Island. Tried to reread it and could not. Caesar Clown bores me most of the time but he did manage to KO the Straw Hats(a surprise tactic but honestly don't mind) and I would be lying if I said his sadism didn't get a chuckle out of me from time to time. Vergo and Monet are both cool in their own right, and I actually do still find myself very sympathetic towards Kinemon. He's just a guy trying to save his kid and that's very sweet. It gets bogged down with other stuff but his story I like at least.
Originally posted by AuraAngel
Meh, it worked with the Fullbring arc I guess. I can't think of a single person that was really liking it as it went on but in retrospective, I think the consensus is at least better than Deicide.This arc is better than Fishmen Island. There are quite a few good things in it.
I kind of enjoyed the fish men arc. I think Jinbei is pretty kick ass and the they reveal of Poseidon wasn't too bad either. It also showcased more of what weaker characters like chopper and Ussop could do. Franky's laserbeam was pretty sick as well. Hell, I guess it really showcased how all of the crew had grown. We got to see how powerful Luffy's eye haki was (Shit took out 50,000 people!) It did sorta make the supposedly super strong fishmen look pretty weak though. My least favorite arc was that one with the zombie island and the shadow shichibukai. It was a pain to read imo.
Originally posted by AuraAngel
Luffy's is too low.I mean seriously, this isn't like some kinda fanboy thing where Luffy is my favorite and I want him to be higher because of that. The dude has from the beginning done nothing but troll the government directly. Be it making them look stupid by beating up their Shichibukai(Moriah, Crocodile), attacking them directly at Enies Lobby, punching a Noble in the face and escaping, humiliating them at Impel Down by releasing hundreds of criminals, almost costing them all of their dignity at Marineford(if Ace hadn't been so stupid, Luffy would have destroyed pretty much all of the Governments credibility. The Son of Dragon, a rookie, would have just freed the only child of the Pirate King in front of the world while the Marine Admirals failed to stop him), and doing several actions that amount to effectively declaring war on the marines. And of course he has Robin as a part of his crew, that lady who can translate Poneglyphs. That practice that can get a whole island nuked.
It's to the point where Luffy can't go to an island without pissing on the Government.
I would have to agree with this. No one has wreaked more havoc on the government then Luffy and co. if they were truly going off of accomplishments, he should be well above everyone else. If it's by who is more dangerous, then he may take a back seat to the likes of blackbeard.
Originally posted by socool8520
I kind of enjoyed the fish men arc. I think Jinbei is pretty kick ass and the they reveal of Poseidon wasn't too bad either. It also showcased more of what weaker characters like chopper and Ussop could do. Franky's laserbeam was pretty sick as well. Hell, I guess it really showcased how all of the crew had grown. We got to see how powerful Luffy's eye haki was (Shit took out 50,000 people!) It did sorta make the supposedly super strong fishmen look pretty weak though. My least favorite arc was that one with the zombie island and the shadow shichibukai. It was a pain to read imo.
It really didn't make the Straw Hats look strong at all because their opponents didn't seem strong at all. Luffy and co beating up Pacifista and the Kraken make them look stronger than beating up Hodi and his pals.
Of course, what really ruined the arc, for me, was the mangled racism message.
Originally posted by AuraAngel
It really didn't make the Straw Hats look strong at all because their opponents didn't seem strong at all. Luffy and co beating up Pacifista and the Kraken make them look stronger than beating up Hodi and his pals.
It may not have made them look strong, but it did showcase some of the new techs they had learned during the time skip. It was a great display of Luffy, Sanji, and Roronoa's haki training, Chopper's different transformations, Franky's weapons, etc. Even Robin hand techs were shown to improve in this arc. Also, that puffer fish dude was at least strong enough to handle the Kraaken, so defeating him wasn't to bad of a showing. On second thought though, how did they not look strong by completely owning people who had just trolled the fishmen army? And the fishmen were on steroids.
Originally posted by AuraAngel
Of course, what really ruined the arc, for me, was the mangled racism message.
I could see where this could turn people off to the arc, but I actually enjoy positive messages in literature.
Originally posted by socool8520
It may not have made them look strong, but it did showcase some of the new techs they had learned during the time skip. It was a great display of Luffy, Sanji, and Roronoa's haki training, Chopper's different transformations, Franky's weapons, etc. Even Robin hand techs were shown to improve in this arc. Also, that puffer fish dude was at least strong enough to handle the Kraaken, so defeating him wasn't to bad of a showing. On second thought though, how did they not look strong by completely owning people who had just trolled the fishmen army? And the fishmen were on steroids.I could see where this could turn people off to the arc, but I actually enjoy positive messages in literature.
Sure, it's a nice showcase of them doing stuff. But because the bad guys don't seem threatening, it's ineherently less impressive.
It's not a positive message. It's a mangled and ruined bad message.
Originally posted by AuraAngel
It's not a positive message. It's a mangled and ruined bad message.
Don't hate or oppress other people. Sounds pretty positive to me. It even shows how far you can fall by doing so (Arlong, Hodi, Tenryubiito). The Queen was pretty much MLK Jr fighting for harmony. Sure it's been done before, but learning to accept others without any discrimination is always a positive message imo. It's the way the world should be.
That was the intended message and it is indeed a good one. I will admit the Otohime parts were good.
However that isn't really what we see. What we see is the humans agreeing with Otohime to create peace, only for her assassination(by a Fishman) to set them back ten years. What we see is the Fishmen being hilariously incompetent and needing to be saved by the humans they treat unfairly. And what we see is the Fishmen population being willing to let the man who just saved them from a villain DIE because of some stupid law.
What we see is that the racist humans(which really the only humans who are almost certainly racist are the nobles but shit, they treat other humans just as badly) don't really do anything. Shit, the government made Jinbei a Shichibukai, one of the most illustrious posts a person can have. The marines and the government honestly don't seem so bad. Hell, they WERE willing to negotiate with Otohime if she could prove that's what her people wanted.
Whereas damn near all of the Fishmen are racist against humans. Shit, Hodi is so racist that it's pathetic(which might have been cool if it were intentional but I don't think it was).
Basically all I got from this arc was Fishmen who aren't Jinbei(and to some smaller extent, part of the royal family) are just kinda racist assholes that can barely take care of themselves and on the whole are still pretty damn ungrateful. I SHOULDN'T be taking this message but it's what I'm seeing.
Originally posted by AuraAngel
That was the intended message and it is indeed a good one. I will admit the Otohime parts were good.However that isn't really what we see. What we [b]see
is the humans agreeing with Otohime to create peace, only for her assassination(by a Fishman) to set them back ten years.[/B]
Hodi is a perfect example of someone who was raised in a society where he was taught to hate humans. So much so that he can't live any other way. I'm sure the roids didn't help much either. This isn't far fetched as it has happened in real life. There will always be someone who tries to stop equality unfortunately.
Originally posted by AuraAngel
What we [b]see is the Fishmen being hilariously incompetent and needing to be saved by the humans they treat unfairly. [/B]
Well, to be fair, the fishmen army were fighting a former military man with a sizeable army of his own. Even more so when he hooked up with Decken. Not to mention, that Luffy's top 3 people seem to be some of the strongest among humans.
Originally posted by AuraAngel
And what we see is the Fishmen population being willing to let the man who just saved them from a villain DIE because of some stupid law.
This was actually well done by Oda imo, and actually made it some more realistic. Had everyone went from racist to accepting in a couple of hours would have been complete BS. Racism and distrust aren't cured overnight. With someone like Jinbei giving Luffy his blood, I think it hit home a little more for the fish folk since he is someone they respect. It lets them know that change is supported by people of higher standing and that they will not be persecuted for aiding humans. You have to remember, these were the same people who up until a few hours before this point, would have been killed for giving blood to humans.
Originally posted by AuraAngel
What we see is that the racist humans(which really the only humans who are almost certainly racist are the nobles but shit, they treat other humans just as badly) don't really do anything. Shit, the government made Jinbei a Shichibukai, one of the most illustrious posts a person can have. The marines and the government honestly don't seem so bad. Hell, they WERE willing to negotiate with Otohime if she could prove that's what her people wanted.Whereas damn near all of the Fishmen are racist against humans. Shit, Hodi is so racist that it's pathetic(which might have been cool if it were intentional but I don't think it was).
Basically all I got from this arc was Fishmen who aren't Jinbei(and to some smaller extent, part of the royal family) are just kinda racist assholes that can barely take care of themselves and on the whole are still pretty damn ungrateful. I SHOULDN'T be taking this message but it's what I'm seeing.
IDK, I might have missed something but I thought it was implied that it wasn't a select group of humans that were racist, but quite a large margin. I mean that one village did sell out King Tiger even though he was bringing back a child to her mother. And then they looked the other way when he was mercilessly gunned down. Not to mention the slavery thing. When several of your people go up to the surface and are forced into slavery, what would you think of humans? It's basic nature to judge all by the actions of a few. You yourself had said that you viewed almost all fishmen as basically racist when in reality, it was really only Hodi and his crew that held any strong hatred towards humans from what I can remember. Most of the fishmen simply displayed distrust and fear, and when given their experiences with what they hear about humans, and the back lash they recieve from Hodi for aiding them, this should be easy to understand.
I think Aura's point is that even though it's a lesson that is all too real, the Fishmen give us no reason to care or even try to understand them: at least in the context of the arc.
Heck Jimbei's position was pretty much a guaranteed restraining order against the WG but the Fishmen still found some way to screw that up. They have also had protection from two yonko, whom were both human, so there hatred of humans is still poorly handled due to their incompitence. Least that how I would see it.
^ I understand the point, I just saw it differently.
Sure Jinbei and WhiteBeard protected the fishman island, but what did they do anywhere else? Did they stop anyone from abducting people and taking them for slavery? Did they destroy the slave house at the archipelago or even have it shut down? They were still allowing humans to oppress the fishmen so I wouldn't see why they would be quick to trust humans based off of those two.
Originally posted by socool8520I don't condemn divergences from the popular opinion.
You're just always a joy on these threads, you know that? Lord forbid anyone disagree with the popular opinion. But, if this is your whole life and it angers you so much, I truly apologize.
I condemn bad opinions.
I am not angry, only informing you that your opinion is bad.
The Fishman Island Arc sucked, the villains were uninteresting and non-threats (A good villain must be threatening), tell me... Other than Decken or Hodi, can you name off-hand any of the vilains introduced in the Fishmen Island Arc? The fights were very boring because of this, it was just spamming curbstomps over and over again. We got a sense of how powerful the crew became already, we didn't need this boring shit. The only reason Hodi could look vaguely threatening in the finale is because for some bizarre reason Jinbei chose not to go stomp him in the water, instead letting Hodi do it (Really, the only reason the arc came to be is because Jinbei decided to be fat and lazy).
And yeah, the racism message sucked. What the arc tells us doesn't matter, what the arc shows us is that Fishmen are vermin who deserve to be discriminated against and enslaved.