Originally posted by Nephthys
No more sexist than pulling off Franky's speedo or crushing his balls for laughs.I didn't take it as sexist as much as showing that he's a disgusting jerk. Which makes it funnier when they still fall all over him.
True but as that happened like a decade ago I don't see why it's worth mentioning lol.
He is a disgusting jerk. He is also sexist. Madara is an ******* and also sexist. Sexism is a good way to make the audience dislike a character.
Q99's problem, I would think, is that these women are attracted to this disgusting sexist guy who shows no interest in them for no reason. And the scene is played for laughs (much how Karin's love for Sasuke is played for laughs even though it is legitimately disturbing and creepy).
Its worth mentioning because those things weren't sexist at all and neither is this. It doesn't work as 'oh a women has no top on, thats sexist!' How the **** is that sexist? Its sexist because women have boobs and the boobs were almost visible? Because a man pulled a womens top off? Sure, if he was treating her as a sex object, but he isn't. He just grabbed the nearest thing regardless of her personal space and that she was wearing it.
Replace Senor with a chick and have her pull Franky's speedo off and people swoon over her and is that sexist? No.
Its played for laughs because he's obviously unattractive in every way. Yet they are still into him. Thats the joke. It isn't a sexist joke. It isn't portraying women in a negative light that I can see, its just a joke.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Its worth mentioning because those things weren't sexist at all and neither is this. It doesn't work as 'oh a women has no top on, thats sexist!' How the **** is that sexist? Its sexist because women have boobs and the boobs were almost visible? Because a man pulled a womens top off? Sure, if he was treating her as a sex object, but he isn't. He just grabbed the nearest thing regardless of her personal space and that she was wearing it.Replace Senor with a chick and have her pull Franky's speedo off and people swoon over her and is that sexist? No.
Its played for laughs because he's obviously unattractive in every way. Yet they are still into him. Thats the joke. It isn't a sexist joke. It isn't portraying women in a negative light that I can see, its just a joke.
No it is because he is treating her like an object. In this case something akin to a napkin dispenser. Now he might have done the same thing had it been a man but it wasn't and so here we are with a man removing a woman's top without any regard for her as a person. When people see that then yes they will think sexist.
She would be and she would be invading his personal space in a scene played for laughs. That is sexist. If we're playing the gender flip game then flip the genders of Robin and Franky in the scene you brought up.
The joke isn't sexist(though the women are obviously supposed to come across as stupid for their liking a guy) but the scene is. The women are stupidly attracted to a person who is entirely unattractive, the man has no regards for them as people, and we are supposed to laugh. Whether or not it personally comes across as sexist to you is irrelevant. There is enough here to make the assertion that it is sexist.
Originally posted by AuraAngel
No it is because he is treating her like an object. In this case something akin to a napkin dispenser. Now he might have done the same thing had it been a man but it wasn't and so here we are with a man removing a woman's top without any regard for her as a person. When people see that then yes they will think sexist.She would be and she would be invading his personal space in a scene played for laughs. That is sexist. If we're playing the gender flip game then flip the genders of Robin and Franky in the scene you brought up.
The joke isn't sexist(though the women are obviously supposed to come across as stupid for their liking a guy) but the scene is. The women are stupidly attracted to a person who is entirely unattractive, the man has no regards for them as people, and we are supposed to laugh. Whether or not it personally comes across as sexist to you is irrelevant. There is enough here to make the assertion that it is sexist.
But he doesn't treat them as objects because on the next page he tells them they should be with men their own age. If they were objects to him, he wouldn't bother trying to give them good advice. If it weren't for that, it would be sexist, because he'd actually just be treating them as objects not worth acknowledging. Also, no, just removing a womans top isn't sexist. If you're trying to oggle her, yeah duh. If you just want a napkin, then whats sexist about that?
Yeah, she would be invading the guys personal space, but that isn't sexist. Just as flipping Robin and Franky's genders wouldn't be sexist either. The only reason it seems more so is because male violence towards women is considered as less amusing and there's more prudishness about uncovering a womens body than a mans. That you assume it would be sexist the other way around is itself somewhat sexist imo. 😉
Just like everyone falling for Hancock are supposed to be stupid for forgiving her being a complete b&tch just because she's hot. Even the men she's going to kill are still in love with her. Is that sexist because it implies that men can't control their libido's? It isn't something you're supposed to take seriously, as the scenario of him being an inexplicable pimp is SO absurd that it can't possibly be a serious case of sexism. Its so stupid and unbelievable that they would find him attractive that its implausibility negates anything you think its actually saying about women. He's dressed as a ****ing baby for christs sake. haermm
Originally posted by Nephthys
No more sexist than pulling off Franky's speedo or crushing his balls for laughs.
No, definitely more sexist. He casually grabbed the top without asking and used it as a napkin. Even his comment is purely in regards to their attracting. The women with him aren't treated as individuals at any point, they're objectified.
Robin didn't yoink Franky's speedo for laughs or for casual convenience, but rather for a specific cause. It wasn't done for fanservice, Franky wasn't objectified by it.
Also, this comes on the heals of, 1, this being a town where jilted women stab men a lot, 2, Sanji going from somewhat suave to more pervy and nosebleed-y post skip, 3, the samurai kid grabbing onto Nami's breasts for fanservice purposes and such...
There was fanservice before, and the lion-guy on Thriller Bark alone was skeezy as heck and a low-point in the series, but the treatment of female characters in the series is getting worse. I am seriously unimpressed with Oda right now.
Today's word is brought to you by the letter "C" for Controversy. Seriously though we went from a "meh" tournament, to a kickass fight with Doflamingo and Admirals, to a cool reveal about Sabo, only to come back to sexist treatment of women. I mean in Oda's mind I guess its okay for some women to be treated as objects in an island where its the norm for chicks to stab guys when their agitated right? Right? Oda's pandering and that's not good at all.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Its like this: Do you think the Okama are transphobic because they're all transsexual stereotypes?No, because they're so absurd they're obviously not meant to be a serious representation of transsexuals.
Yes. The fact that the scenes with Okama characters treat them with a distinct lack of seriousness makes the audience, at least some portion, treat transgenders with the same lack of seriousness(if they're jokes in the show, why not in real life?).
Originally posted by Nephthys
Its like this: Do you think the Okama are transphobic because they're all transsexual stereotypes?
Sorta a gay/transsexual/transvestite mix stereotype....
And some of the parts with them? Yea, kinda problematic. There actually is an Okama subculture in Japan, and the named ones are portrayed reasonably positively, Bon Clay especially, so I don't mind too much of it, but there are issues.
The anime version actually made it worse- when they helped out with getting the crew to the ship, in the manga they fought off some marines. In the anime, they.. scared them away with kisses.
It really is something of a tossup I've seen discussion on. On the one hand, they're exaggerated stereotypes, on the other hand, there's a badass and all-around awesome transgender hero in Bon Clay who's portrayed quite positively, and you don't *get* many of those. Ivankov and the rank-and-file Okama tend to get more flack (again, anime worse than manga).
No, because they're so absurd they're obviously not meant to be a serious representation of transsexuals.
That's an actual stereotype in Japan...
Originally posted by Nephthys
Y'know, except for Bon-chan, one of the most B for Badass characters in One Piece.Also Ivankov.
The transgender aspect of his character is played for laughs and if you cut it he would still effectively be every bit as badass as before. It does nothing to inform the audience of his character but exists because it is funny.
But you're bringing up the one example from a group of people. The Fishmen come across as honorable and worthy of respect if we just look an Jinbei and no one else. Doesn't change the fact that pretty much all of the Fishmen in that arc were worthless and still racist enough that they'd let Luffy, the guy who saved them, die because of teh law.
Edit: And you think Ivankov is a good transgender character? Uh....no.
Originally posted by Q99
No, definitely more sexist. He casually grabbed the top without asking and used it as a napkin. Even his comment is purely in regards to their attracting. The women with him aren't treated as individuals at any point, they're objectified.Robin didn't yoink Franky's speedo for laughs or for casual convenience, but rather for a specific cause. It wasn't done for fanservice, Franky wasn't objectified by it.
So? If Robin had grabbed Franky's speedo to use as a napkin I doubt you'd call it sexist. Its an exaggerated joke, no-one freaking acts like that. His comment is about attraction because they're literally hanging off his body (I can't believe you guys are taking this seriously). They only aren't treated like individuals in that they're treated as a group, like the marines from the last arc. Only instead of reacting as idiots, they're reacting as inexplicably attracted to Pink.
They aren't objectified. The fact that they're hot and skantily clad is just a part of the joke, not fanservice.