Originally posted by Superman 24
Same time. I know Spiderman beats, all of them 1 on 1but at the same time. I am not sure about that one. Captain America is pretty sick and yeah there is Wolverine an Dare Devil is Blind and has that sense thing. Please Smack me and tell me you idiot Spiderman wins because of this. I really aint sure if hes winning against all 3.
go to pages 70 and skim through till page 85 or so...I believe you;ll find your answer here...
Originally posted by Superman 24
Same time. I know Spiderman beats, all of them 1 on 1but at the same time. I am not sure about that one. Captain America is pretty sick and yeah there is Wolverine an Dare Devil is Blind and has that sense thing. Please Smack me and tell me you idiot Spiderman wins because of this. I really aint sure if hes winning against all 3.
Yea, he'd lose comically, but if you go by the conditions, no hero worship and such, and the fact that anything goes, he CAN win.
but not easily, he'd have to seperate them, which he can do....
Get my drift, he's constantly on the move here.
Peter does better against multiple foes aswell, he gets confusing.
Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
Yea, he'd lose comically, but if you go by the conditions, no hero worship and such, and the fact that anything goes, he CAN win.but not easily, he'd have to seperate them, which he can do....
Get my drift, he's constantly on the move here.
Peter does better against multiple foes aswell, he gets confusing.
Oh ok
Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
Yea, he'd lose comically, but if you go by the conditions, no hero worship and such, and the fact that anything goes, he CAN win.but not easily, he'd have to seperate them, which he can do....
Get my drift, he's constantly on the move here.
Peter does better against multiple foes aswell, he gets confusing.
I'm not saying he can't just that the chances of it happening are very very slim.....VERY...
Originally posted by jinzin
are you aware that early Spider man had an incredibly difficult time with three normal guys...or vulture in h2h...or doom in a fist fight?
plot device: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plot_device
A plot device is a person or an object introduced to a story to affect or advance the plot. In the hands of a skilled writer, the reader or viewer will not notice that the device is a construction of the author—it will seem to follow naturally from the setting or characters in the story. A poorly-written story, on the other hand, may have such awkward or contrived plot devices that the reader has serious trouble maintaining suspension of disbelief; indeed, the devices may even leave plot holes
In any case....you only furthered my point I was attempting to make....
characters can alter from level to level on any given day....that does not mean that EVERYTHING one character does requires a seriously thought out explaination...(which btw I DID effectively explain how and why logan could have the ability to jump 30 feet into the air......somehow EVERYONE saw the pictures...and deems it fi to ***** about them freely...yet those same people, each and every one, missed the explaination....funny) but since you seemed to bring up inconsistancies....
plot device: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plot_device
A plot device is a person or an object introduced to a story to affect or advance the plot. In the hands of a skilled writer, the reader or viewer will not notice that the device is a construction of the author—it will seem to follow naturally from the setting or characters in the story. A poorly-written story, on the other hand, may have such awkward or contrived plot devices that the reader has serious trouble maintaining suspension of disbelief; indeed, the devices may even leave plot holes
lets look at it like this...Spider man has the ability to take down owerwhelmingly superior foes using a combination of his speed, strength, webbing, agility, mindgames etc etc...
Good I'm glad you finally admitted to this. So based on their skills and abilities and defined by Marvel as well as generally demonstrated in the comic book world, are Cap, Wolvie, DD overwhelming superior to Spider Man in the areas of..
speed?
precognition?
reflexes?
strength?
agility?
long range attacks?
If your answer to these questions is "yes"...then there is no reason for us to continue to debating, because you will have essentially proved yourself to be a fanboy.
If the answer to these questions is no, then let me follow up with another question...
Do these "superior abilities" give Spider man an advantage coming into this battle?
HOWEVER....Spider man constantly has a horrible time when he is confronted by well established and extraordinary fighters of this calibre....he constantly dodges bullets...but has a hard time dodging fists and feet...
plot device: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plot_device
A plot device is a person or an object introduced to a story to affect or advance the plot. In the hands of a skilled writer, the reader or viewer will not notice that the device is a construction of the author—it will seem to follow naturally from the setting or characters in the story. A poorly-written story, on the other hand, may have such awkward or contrived plot devices that the reader has serious trouble maintaining suspension of disbelief; indeed, the devices may even leave plot holes
Does everyone in here know what a plot device is now?
Spider man constantly has a hard time bringing down daredevil
Spider man constantly gets humiliated by cap....
Spider man constantly gets his ass raped by wolverine alone.....
The only thing that you've proved Jinzin, is that you are very "consistent" with giving misleading information regarding the "consistencies" of battles between the respected combatants.
Let us also not forget, that you've neglected to give us the "complete" story lines, regarding each and every one of the respective battles mentioned above. I can guarantee that all of the examples you've given, involved some sort of "plot device" (there's that word again..)
And let us also not forget, that each and everyone one of your respective examples can be easily rebutted with similar "circular arguments."
Examples of circular arguments:
DD has constantly admitted that he has no chance against Spider man when the wallcrawler is going all out, and is not "hypnotized"<--note..key word here is "hypnotized."
Spider man has constantly humiliated the Red Skull, whom Cap has much difficulty with.
Spider man has constantly webbed up, out maneuvered and made a fool of Wolverine on multiple occasions. (ie X - men Fight, Marvel knights SM, etc)
wolverine breaking out of webbing has been the question all along...so what? we all know that' he'd be using his claws to do it...if he can't...if Spider man pulls off him getting caught in an uncomprimising position such as that, then there are two other guys there to back him up..... so far Spider man hasn't been able to KEEP wolverine sufficiently webbed BY HIMSELF
Stop making up stories. As mentioned above, he's demonstrated the ability to web up Wolverine rather easily on several occasions.
...there's no reason to believe that he can all of the sudden do it NOW...especially when you've got one guy there to get him out if he needed it and another guy there to keep Spider man buisy
You completely lack the ability to reason while debating. Again Jinzin, let me ask you some questions, and please attempt to use logic while answering them.
How is it that Cap and Daredevil would be able to quickly remove the webbing from Wolverine, when characters much stronger than themselves have struggled for a good while to get out of it?
What hinders Spider man from webbing up another Trio member, while they are attempting to free they're fallen comrade?
What long range attacks and abilities do any of the Trio members possess, that would inhibit SM from jumping away and webbing them up while they were attempting to keep SM "buisy"?
.....which all three of these guys are capable of....Spider man's tried to web his hands to the wall, he broke out before it adhered,
I read that issue of MK Spider man..and its fairly obvious the the wallcrawler was not trying to completely web Wolverine up, kill him, or fighting with the idea of "any means necessary" in mind.
How did I come to this conclusion..well from the onset of the "battle", get ready for this..it was established by Captain a that the "battle" was merely a..duh..duh..duh..duh.."TRAINING SESSION."
Argument dead. Seriously bud..you might as well hang it up on this one.
he tried to web his hands to his face, wolvie got out when he FELT LIKE IT....Spider man' tried to web logan to keep him at bay from punisher....logan shredded through the stuff and flip kicked Spider man's sorry ass out of the way.....venom tried to web him up against a tree and stuck his claws into it to boot....wolverine got out...venom tried to completely encase him in symbiote...wolverine got out.....THUS FAR...there is no evidence to support that Spider man can even successfully web wolverine up let alone the three of these guys....while on the other hand..there is a bountiful amount of evidence to support the thesis that he can't even effectively web logan up alone.....
don't get me wrong, Spider man HAS webbed a ton of people up that are physically superior to logan....he's succesfully webbed up impressive heroes and villains alike rendering them useless....wolverine ain't one of them.... Spider man has been able to utilize his webbing in very effective and creative ways..... but not against wolverine....
Pardon me for being rude, but based on your credibility, I find it highly dubious that the examples you've given above are accurate portrayals of what actually took place in those stories. As far as Spider man being able to web up Wolverine goes, refer to the previous responses.
of course you CAN argue PIS CIS for all of this...but the funny thing about that is....when you use that argument, you're arguing against a character that doesn't exist.....
PIS or not, you've constantly given little evidence to validate any of your arguments as being plausible or logical. Concentrate more on the content of what your arguing, and less on the aesthetics(ie scanning pictures) and I can guarantee you that your arguments will carry more credibility.
Originally posted by CorderaMitchellNo it wouldn't. It's still something that origintes from outside an organism's body.
If it is bonded molecurlaly, it would be organic, not a metal, why is gambit charging it?
Originally posted by Creshosk
In Wolverine: Snikt! his right arm was burned so badly only his adamantium bones remained; guess what? They were still linked together. Wolverine was still able to use his arm (even though he had to hold it with his left hand). If there is cartilage between his bones that can be severed, than it can also be burned away, and obviously thats not the case.What about New X-Men, E is for Extinction? Nova burned off all the flesh on his right arm, and guess what? the arm bones were still linked together. They didn't collapse or fall off, which is what they would have done had there been connecting ligaments and cartilage.
How about Miller's Wolverine? When Shingen and Logan fight, Shingen aims a sword stroke at Logans' neck; It was later explained (whether by Miller or Claremont, I don't know) that it was an attack that was meant to sever Wolverine's head, by cutting in between the connecting bones; but since Wolverine's adamantium reinforces and links those bones, it couldn't cut through.
And lets not forget Blood Hungry.
Originally posted by Wanderer259
Actually, yes. I'd venture to say Cap's shield and Daredevil's billy club exceeds Spider-Man's long-range attack capability.
Actually I'd have to say no. 😛 SM can create bats, shields, and a multitude of other weapons with the webbing. He can use these items just as effectively as Captain America or Daredevil can with the shield or the billy club.
Don't forget that the webbing can also be sprayed out as a net, as a long strand, or as a sticky glue...so yes SM's long range attacks are much more versatile, and can be used much more effectively than any of the Trio.
Originally posted by whobdamandogHis new organic webbing has this level of control as well?
Actually I'd have to say no. 😛 SM can create bats, shields, and a multitude of other weapons with the webbing. He can use these items just as effectively as Captain America or Daredevil can with the shield or the billy club.Don't forget that the webbing can also be sprayed out as a net, as a long strand, or as a sticky glue...so yes SM's long range attacks are much more versatile, and can be used much more effectively than any of the Trio.
Actually I'd have to say no. 😛 SM can create bats, shields, and a multitude of other weapons with the webbing. He can use these items just as effectively as Captain America or Daredevil can with the shield or the billy club.
A web-shield and web-bat makes no difference at long range and I can't think of a single thing Spidey could make out of webbing that would be a useable ranged weapon. A web dart? He can't make web-bullets and flick them at the trio and he doesn't possess impact-webbing. It doesn't matter, however, because of the next point...
Don't forget that the webbing can also be sprayed out as a net, as a long strand, or as a sticky glue...so yes SM's long range attacks are much more versatile, and can be used much more effectively than any of the Trio.
No, his web-shooters don't do any of those anymore, because nowadays he has web-spinnerettes, not web-shooters. As far as I'm aware, there is no stainless steel nozzle in Peter's wrist that can be manipulated or exchanged in order to alter the way the silk is projected. At the moment, Spidey is limited to web-lines, using them however he may. As an attack on its own, there's little that a web-line can do offensively.
His new organic webbing has this level of control as well?
As far as we've seen? No. It also wouldn't make very much sense if he did.
I hate how Marvel likes to change things because of the movie. I don't care that it makes 'Peter not seem as smart', because that's a dumb remark, but it does limit Peter's capabilities a bit for absolutely no reason at all.
Originally posted by Wanderer259
I can't think of a single thing Spidey could make out of webbing that would be a useable ranged weapon.
If he distances himself from the Trio and fires a webline, it would then be considered a "useable ranged weapon." There's a multitude of things he can do from a distance by just firing weblines. Here are but a few examples:
1. Completely web them up.
2. Snag one of the Trio and lob them a couple miles.
3. Snag a large object(ie car, boulder, etc) and lob it at them.
Please remember that SM has "2" weblines that he can work with at any given time.
Will Cap/DD/Wolverine be standing there just waiting for him to web them? Of course not. However, Spider man has consistently proved the ability to "snag" moving targets that are much faster than any of the Trio. (ie goblin gliders, cars, large boulders, Airplanes, trains, super-humans, etc, etc)
Keep in mind, that I have yet to include the other weapons he can create with the webbing. I'm sure Spider man could throw a web shield, bat, or net just as effectively from long range as Cap or DD could do with the shield or billy club. And he need not worry about loosing said weapons after they have been thrown, since he is able to simply create another one.
No, his web-shooters don't do any of those anymore, because nowadays he has web-spinnerettes, not web-shooters. As far as I'm aware, there is no stainless steel nozzle in Peter's wrist that can be manipulated or exchanged in order to alter the way the silk is projected.At the moment, Spidey is limited to web-lines, using them however he may. As an attack on its own, there's little that a web-line can do offensively.
Well we've never clearly defined what versions of the characters we are using in this debate, or the setting in which they are fighting. However for the sake of keeping the debate fair and interesting, lets just say that Spiderman is limited to his weblines, and the battle takes place out in the desert.
What factors hinder SM from distancing himself from the much slower, less agile Trio, and what factors inhibit him from performing any of the ranged attacks with the weblines that were mentioned above?
Ok I see the problem here.
Originally posted by whobdamandog
If he distances himself from the Trio and fires a webline, it would then be considered a "useable ranged weapon." There's a multitude of things he can do from a distance by just firing weblines. Here are but a few examples:
If he distances himself, it gives them all more time to react.
Originally posted by whobdamandog
1. Completely web them up.
Didn't work on Wolvie, he got out basically at will. Cap has a shield and DD's pretty sharp on those senses.
Originally posted by whobdamandog
2. Snag one of the Trio and lob them a couple miles.
3. Snag a large object(ie car, boulder, etc) and lob it at them.
Yup here it is, you seem to think that these three guys are common thugs. If you can give any example whatsoever of these tactics actually working on heros (or villians) of the calibre of the heros in question, then I'd consider it.
Originally posted by whobdamandog
Please remember that SM has "2" weblines that he can work with at any given time.
Please remember that there are "3" of them and they all work as a team in the presence of MU's greatest leader.
Originally posted by whobdamandog
Will Cap/DD/Wolverine be standing there just waiting for him to web them? Of course not. However, Spider man has consistently proved the ability to "snag" moving targets that are much faster than any of the Trio. (ie goblin gliders, cars, large boulders, Airplanes, trains, super-humans, etc, etc)
Faster, not Better.
Originally posted by whobdamandog
Keep in mind, that I have yet to include the other weapons he can create with the webbing. I'm sure Spider man could throw a web shield, bat, or net just as effectively from long range as Cap or DD could do with the shield or billy club. And he need not worry about loosing said weapons after they have been thrown, since he is able to simply create another one.
Yeah I thought of that, it doesn't change anything.
Originally posted by whobdamandog
Well we've never clearly defined what versions of the characters we are using in this debate, or the setting in which they are fighting. However for the sake of keeping the dbate fair and interesting, lets just say that Spiderman is limited to his weblines, and the battle takes place out in the desert.What factors hinder SM from distancing himself from the much slower, less agile Trio, and what factors inhibit him from performing any of the ranged attacks with the weblines that were mentioned above?
The fact that he's not taking anyone out from a distance.
Originally posted by MERCILOUS
If he distances himself, it gives them all more time to react.
True. But can is it logical to assume that the icon Trio will react quickly enough to someone who is several times faster than themselves, has a reaction time up to 30 times greater, and has a the ability to predict when they are going to attack?
Originally posted by MERCILOUS
Didn't work on Wolvie, he got out basically at will. Cap has a shield and DD's pretty sharp on those senses.
Originally posted by whobdamandog
It's been demonstrated countless times in comics, and stated in Marvel handbooks that the webbing is difficult for CL100 characters to break without sufficient leverage, so how in the hell should Wolverine be able to free himself from it..or Cap and DD for that matter?
Originally posted by whobdamandog
plot device: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plot_deviceA plot device is a person or an object introduced to a story to affect or advance the plot. In the hands of a skilled writer, the reader or viewer will not notice that the device is a construction of the author—it will seem to follow naturally from the setting or characters in the story. A poorly-written story, on the other hand, may have such awkward or contrived plot devices that the reader has serious trouble maintaining suspension of disbelief; indeed, the devices may even leave plot holes
Originally posted by whobdamandog
Examples of circular arguments:Spider man has constantly webbed up, out maneuvered and made a fool of Wolverine on multiple occasions. (ie X - men Fight, Marvel knights SM, etc)
Originally posted by MERCILOUS
Yup here it is, you seem to think that these three guys are common thugs. If you can give any example whatsoever of these tactics actually working on heros (or villians) of the calibre of the heros in question, then I'd consider it.
Okay lets simplify things a bit by having you answer a few questions.
Would you agree that spider man has demonstrated strength that enables him to pick up heavy objects like boulders, cars, trucks, tanks, building structures, etc..etc?
Are Cap/Wolvie/Daredevil heavier than cars, trains, and large building structures?
Has SM demonstrated the ability to to snag moving objects such as trains, cars, airplanes, and goblin gliders, with his webbing?
If your answer to any of these questions is "no"..we might as well stop right here, because you will have essentially proved yourself to be a Cap/Wolvie/DD fanboy.
However if your answers are yes..then I'll assume you have enough common sense to come to your own conclusions as to the plausibility of the webline battle "tactics" actually working.
*FYI On multiple occasions, the wallcrawler has managed to snag and throw Puma, Green Goblin, Wolverine, Morbius, and countless others with the webline.
Originally posted by MERCILOUS
Please remember that there are "3" of them and they all work as a team in the presence of MU's greatest leader.
Please give examples of when these three have worked together effectively as a team in a random battle, uninhibited by morals, and going for the kill against an opponent who is 20-30 times stronger, can sense each of their attacks, many times faster, has a reaction time 30-40 times greater, and has a strong cable-like substance that can be fired from a distance at them at will.
If you can give me an example of a scenario such as this happening involving the Trio, and of tactics that were used to taking down this opponent, then I might consider your argument to be plausible...🙄
Faster, not Better.
That's just an opinion.
Yeah I thought of that, it doesn't change anything.
Well I guess that says it all about Cap's shield and DD's Billy Club being effective "long range weapons."
The fact that he's not taking anyone out from a distance.
Damb Merc you really got me in the mood with those last couple of arguments. They were really great. You consistently amaze me with your debating skills. Your seem to be getting better and better!! Gotta say..I'm really impressed!! 🙄 😆 :laugh
Originally posted by MERCILOUS
If you can give any example whatsoever of these tactics actually working on heros (or villians) of the calibre of the heros in question, then I'd consider it..
Full description of what happened in the pic above:
MK Knights Spider Man. Training session..SM easily evades Wolverine's initial attack, snags him with the webbing and throws him up against the wall. He does not attempt to completely web up and fully incapicitate him, which could have easily been done, but seeing as how this is only a TRAINING SESSION..I guess Peter felt it wasn't necessary.
And before someone reposts the next page, I will go ahead and do it for you. Wolverine manages to "cut" his way out of the webbing. A cocky wide open SM lunges at Wolverine. Seeing as how this was a TRAINING SESSION, SM probably carelessly ignores his Spider sense as he has done countless times, which allows Wolverine to get a stab in...