Originally posted by Capt.JK
Spidey is NOT a problem for Cap. You guys obviously have very little information about his abilities in order to make your assumptions with. And then you give Cap's team the added strengths of Dare Devil AND Wolverine? Puh-leeease.
You can Puh-leeease all you want, but everything (okay, most things) Cap can do, Spider-Man can do also. Only a lot faster. This is not an opinion, this is a fact.
Spider Man is superior to these three from a stictly physical attributes perspective...I don't need to go over the stats...since they've been reitterated post after post...
But what many of the people in here continue to forget about is his spider sense....
From a strictly "logical" perspective...no one should be able to get their hands on spidey based on this "sixth sense...."
When you combine his "physical superiority" with the above mentioned ability..then...he really should have no difficulty with any of these three opponents...regardless of how well they've been trained...they all have human level speeds...and would not be able to tag Spidey based on his speed and early warning sense....and I haven't even brought his webbing into play...
but again these are comic books..and unfortunately...they don't always operate on a "logical" scale...we've seen many battles where spidey has shown to be beaten by people..who..from a "logical" perspective.. should not have been able to beat him...(ie the enforcers...Kraven..etc)
But for the means of debate we do have to operate within some logical parameters..or else we couldn't really debate about anything...
So in conclusion..from a "logical" perspective...Spider Man should win this battle.....leaving out all prior "illogical" writing..(ie spidey loosing to dd once or twice...getting beaten by hammerhead..getting punched by captain and stating his punch being too fast for his spider-sense to handle..lol)
however...in the comic book world..this ain't ever going to happen...
Originally posted by whobdamandog
but again these are comic books..and unfortunately...they don't always operate on a "logical" scale...we've seen many battles where spidey has shown to be beaten by people..who..from a "logical" perspective.. should not have been able to beat him...(ie the enforcers...Kraven..etc)But for the means of debate we do have to operate within some logical parameters..or else we couldn't really debate about anything...
So in conclusion..from a "logical" perspective...Spider Man should win this battle.....leaving out all prior "illogical" writing..(ie spidey loosing to dd once or twice...getting beaten by hammerhead..getting punched by captain and stating his punch being too fast for his spider-sense to handle..lol)
however...in the comic book world..this ain't ever going to happen...
The problem with your post is that you are basing your OPINION of Spidey's ability to win on what the writers of Spider-Man have written in the past, and then saying that if he were to lose, it would only be due to illogical or bad writing. The problem with this is that you can not pick and choose what you like and disregard what you don't. You have to accept ALL of these character's histories as a whole. And the fact remains that DD and Cap HAVE beaten Spider-Man in the past, and Wolverine has made him think about retiring from the super hero biz all together.
All heroes at some point lose to someone we think they should have easily beaten, but since you and I don't write the comics, we have to accept their histories as they have been written, whether we like it or not. ALL of their histories.
So just face the facts. Spidey would lose. I will concede that he could conceivably defeat any one of these guys alone, but not all 3 together. Just because you're a Spidey fanboy doesn't mean you can disregard all other characters as weak. Cap has been around a LOT longer than Spider-Man. Wolverine brought Marvel out of the dark ages. These characters, along with DD, are ICONS in the comic industry. They are just as strong and rich with story as Spider-Man. Which means they would not just roll over and play dead like they're the Wonder Triplets.
CAPTAIN AMERICA is the SUPREME strategist and tactician of ALL of comics. It is the very definition of his character; he was created in 1941 as America's "smack in the face" to Hitler and the Nazis. He is also the PEAK of fighting ability in the MU. Check Marvel.com for this information if you don't want to believe me.
WOLVERINE is a killing machine, the "Best at what he does."
DARE DEVIL has a fighting style that nearly mimics Spider-Man's.
For you to think that these 3 couldn't defeat 1 man, when ALL of them have faced far more powerful characters ON THEIR OWN and beaten them; when ALL of them have faced down ARMIES and beaten them; is so pathetically "FANBOYISH" that I can't believe you actually believe your own posts. Get real.
Time to educate...lol...
Originally posted by Capt.JK
[B]The problem with your post is that you are basing your OPINION of Spidey's ability to win on what the writers of Spider-Man have written in the past, and then saying that if he were to lose, it would only be due to illogical or bad writing. The problem with this is that you can not pick and choose what you like and disregard what you don't. You have to accept ALL of these character's histories as a whole. And the fact remains that DD and Cap HAVE beaten Spider-Man in the past, and Wolverine has made him think about retiring from the super hero biz all together.
Well let me use some of your own logic against you in this battle...
Spider Man defeated firelord....a being who has been capable of destroying whole civilizations of people...
Spider Man defeated the Juggernaut...a being who has taken on the entire team of X-men....
Spider Man destroyed Iron Man 2020..(future Iron Man) with his strength, speed, and fighting ability alone...
Spider Man beat Titania...the list goes on and on...
All of these beings have defeated or could have defeated entire superteams..so Spider-Man should be able to do the same... 😆
You see where I'm going with this...its foolish to compare random incidents within a characters history to their overall abilities...at least from a "random" fighting standpoint....in the context of most of these debates..I think most people look at the fighters from a powers/capabilities perspective rather than a "who done what/where" perspective...
In the example that Matches gave..(good pictorial by the way..) We See Spider Man easily manhandling the entire X-team...so if I were to take that example..and apply it to this fight..I can easily counter your point of view on the trio winning...
Now I'm not saying that none of these prior stories should come into play...but it would make sense for you to use a series of interactions between Spider Man in these characters..not just one random event...
All heroes at some point lose to someone we think they should have easily beaten, but since you and I don't write the comics, we have to accept their histories as they have been written, whether we like it or not. ALL of their histories.So just face the facts. Spidey would lose. I will concede that he could conceivably defeat any one of these guys alone, but not all 3 together. Just because you're a Spidey fanboy doesn't mean you can disregard all other characters as weak. Cap has been around a LOT longer than Spider-Man. Wolverine brought Marvel out of the dark ages. These characters, along with DD, are ICONS in the comic industry. They are just as strong and rich with story as Spider-Man. Which means they would not just roll over and play dead like they're the Wonder Triplets.
CAPTAIN AMERICA is the SUPREME strategist and tactician of ALL of comics. It is the very definition of his character; he was created in 1941 as America's "smack in the face" to Hitler and the Nazis. He is also the PEAK of fighting ability in the MU. Check Marvel.com for this information if you don't want to believe me.
Yes the Captain is a strategist..but don't downplay the tactical mind of Spider Man..he's shown the he can think his way through near impossible odds...and again let me reitterate..other than the examples of who done this and that..(which as I mentioned before is irrelevant in this type of debate) You haven't really given much from an power/ability perspective as to how Captain or DD will be able to survive one "unpulled punch" from Spider Man.. or even be able to land a blow....
...is so pathetically "FANBOYISH" that I can't believe you actually believe your own posts. Get real.
LOL....I think we should compare our names/profiles/and signatures....lol..and we'll see who's the real fanboy...lol..I think a wise man once said..."One always fights against the things they themselves represent..." 😆
Originally posted by Capt.JK
So just face the facts.
Spider-Man is stronger, faster and more agile than Wolverine, DD and Cap. None of the three can break his web. Spider-Man can cover all three fighters up in his web. The only reason he won't do that, is because it will be a lousy and lame fight, and no writer will want to write that.
Another fact : Spider-Man can dodge any attack from Wolverine, Cap and DD thanks to the combination of his superior reflexes, agility and spider-sense.
Last fact : with the exception of Wolverine, he only has to punch DD and Cap once (if he doesn't hold back of course). And since when has Spider-Man ever had trouble with hitting someone ?
These are facts. Not opinions. Facts. Spider-Man can easily take punches from Captain America and DD. But not vice versa.
I can see him lose, sure, but only when the three work together. But not in a random fight.
Cap has been around a LOT longer than Spider-Man. Wolverine brought Marvel out of the dark ages. These characters, along with DD, are ICONS in the comic industry.
CAPTAIN AMERICA is the SUPREME strategist and tactician of ALL of comics. It is the very definition of his character; he was created in 1941 as America's "smack in the face" to Hitler and the Nazis. He is also the PEAK of fighting ability in the MU.
WOLVERINE is a killing machine, the "Best at what he does."
DARE DEVIL has a fighting style that nearly mimics Spider-Man's.
Originally posted by whobdamandog
Time to educate...lol...Well let me use some of your own logic against you in this battle...
Spider Man defeated firelord....a being who has been capable of destroying whole civilizations of people...
Spider Man defeated the Juggernaut...a being who has taken on the entire team of X-men....
Spider Man destroyed Iron Man 2020..(future Iron Man) with his strength, speed, and fighting ability alone...
Spider Man beat Titania...the list goes on and on...
All of these beings have defeated or could have defeated entire superteams..so Spider-Man should be able to do the same... 😆
You see where I'm going with this...its foolish to compare random incidents within a characters history to their overall abilities...at least from a "random" fighting standpoint....in the context of most of these debates..I think most people look at the fighters from a powers/capabilities perspective rather than a "who done what/where" perspective...
In the example that Matches gave..(good pictorial by the way..) We See Spider Man easily manhandling the entire X-team...so if I were to take that example..and apply it to this fight..I can easily counter your point of view on the trio winning...
Now I'm not saying that none of these prior stories should come into play...but it would make sense for you to use a series of interactions between Spider Man in these characters..not just one random event...
That's dangerous ground in saying that he definitely won those fights. First off, people have been discrediting the Firelord fight for quite a while (I personally enjoyed it). He was persistent and it finally overwhelmed Firelord in that comic, but he put a lot of innocent people in danger (i.e. traveling through the subway train) that seems out of character.
To proclaim Juggernaut was defeated by Spiderman is an iffy term. There is a difference between tricked and defeated.
I didn't see the Iron Man battle, but on the other spectrum, he couldn't react fast enough to the Iron Man imposter in Infinity Wars.
Titania is a She-Hulk with a little less durability. She was knocked out from a standard moving vehicle when she among others were blackmailing Kingpin for the money they thought he owed them (Chameleon tricked them).
On the X-Men, if they are not showing to emphasize their powers and abilities as normal such as Nightcrawler failing to teleport, it doesn't seem logical. He was neutralized by Jean Grey alone when he faced the original X-Men in Marvel Tales, and he's been taken down by single opponents (i.e. Kraven, but he did use a dart) and teams (i.e. Deadly Foes of Spiderman - Beetle, Rhino, Hydroman, Speed Demon, and Boomerang).
But yes, random events can go either way and to give credo to an opponent, some fights appear longer than should.
Originally posted by who?-kid
Okay, let's face them.Spider-Man is stronger, faster and more agile than Wolverine, DD and Cap. None of the three can break his web. Spider-Man can cover all three fighters up in his web. The only reason he won't do that, is because it will be a lousy and lame fight, and no writer will want to write that.
Well, Wolverine's claws can cut the web as it wasn't made that impossibly durable and it will keep him at bay if it envelops on him correctly. It takes only a small air pocket depending on how an opponent positions oneself to give some leeway for cutting out (if strength alone isn't an option).
Another fact : Spider-Man can dodge any attack from Wolverine, Cap and DD thanks to the combination of his superior reflexes, agility and spider-sense.Last fact : with the exception of Wolverine, he only has to punch DD and Cap once (if he doesn't hold back of course). And since when has Spider-Man ever had trouble with hitting someone ?
These are facts. Not opinions. Facts. Spider-Man can easily take punches from Captain America and DD. But not vice versa.
I can see him lose, sure, but only when the three work together. But not in a random fight.
Spiderman can dodge some of their attacks, but they are also susceptible to dodge a number of his attacks and he's been hit before. I don't think he's ever fought Captain America (after all, he idolized him) and I didn't see the Daredevil fight, but Wolverine has hit Spiderman before (i.e. Marvel Comics Presents).
Spiderman is not durable enough to have a hit from any of them to not feel anything. Captain America also strongly utilizes his shield which will especially hurt. Captain America also uses that shield very expertly which can blunt many of Spiderman's attacks. But true, Daredevil and Captain America cannot take a direct hit.
I can see either side win with the right circumstances, but I see the threesome win more so. Their styles are not so entirely different that working together wouldn't be that implausible.
Originally posted by radioboy121
I didn't see the Iron Man battle, but on the other spectrum, he couldn't react fast enough to the Iron Man imposter in Infinity Wars.
Well, Wolverine's claws can cut the web
Spiderman can dodge some of their attacks, but they are also susceptible to dodge a number of his attacks and he's been hit before.
And also, let's not forget that for every time he's been hit, he has dodged 1000 attacks. Spider-Man is famous for dodging !
Spiderman is not durable enough to have a hit from any of them to not feel anything.
Captain America also strongly utilizes his shield which will especially hurt.
Captain America also uses that shield very expertly which can blunt many of Spiderman's attacks.
But true, Daredevil and Captain America cannot take a direct hit.
I can see either side win with the right circumstances, but I see the threesome win more so. Their styles are not so entirely different that working together wouldn't be that implausible.
Originally posted by who?-kid
The fight with the Iron Man from the future was great. Spider-Man was going berserk and was tearing his armor apart. Hahahaha...
This would not work with the normal continuum Iron Man suit, but you pique my curiousity. When did this happen?
If he can reach the web with his claws, sure, why not. But it will take him some precious time.
It takes little time to cut the web with Wolverine. It would be harder if his wrist were binded. And second, foes are usually imbedded on walls and if the wall cannot handle the onslaught of punches by Spiderman, it will give out giving breathing room anyway.
Of course Spider-Man has been hit, he has been hit so many times I lost track. But that's not the point. In most cases when somebody actually manages to hit him, Spider-Man is confused / hypnotized / tired / angry/ wounded / protecting somebody... whatever... and is not fighting like he normally fights.
Yes, most times. In the Marvel Comics Presents, he thought Wolverine was dead as he associated his death with the X-Men's battle with Adversary and thought Wolverine was an imposter trying to ruin his reputation.
And also, let's not forget that for every time he's been hit, he has dodged 1000 attacks. Spider-Man is famous for dodging !
True, he has to dodge for otherwise he would have dead long time ago. But realize that of every 1 true villain, there are a probably good dozen or more anonymous amateurs who missed.
Spider-Man can dodge bullets. The shield is much slower than a bullet
Bullets can be dodged, especially if shot from an amateur shooter and a gesture of adjusting a shield is far faster than a bullet delivery as would a person waving their arm.
Captain America not only used his shield to deflect bullets, but he also dodges bullets too. In World War 2 even, both him and Bucky had to do this as there were too many anonymous Nazi villains for them to handle. Daredevil isn't lightning quick, but I'm sure he's dodged his own share for his club wouldn't protect him against all.
Wolverine doesn't always dodge because his durability and healing doesn't permits him to require it, but he's cut a dart in mid-flight (i.e. from Warhawk) and he's dodged bullets, such as the during the beginning of the Dark Phoenix Saga where he dodged the bullets of the Hellfire lackeys until he rushed one and fluked, and during Wolverine's search for Terry Adams where he was eventually approached by the Russian soldiers of the facility, dodged their bullets and tore their weapons in half before they realized it.
Originally posted by radioboy121
[B]This would not work with the normal continuum Iron Man suit, but you pique my curiousity. When did this happen?
I belive it was either Peter Parker Spectecular SM or Amazing SM Annual 7 or 8..I'm not sure which one
...Arno Stark is apparently Tony's son from the future..and the Armor that he possessed...was probably on par with Tony's based on the fact that the design was very similar to the current Iron Man's, and neither Spider-Man or anyone else recognized him as being a different Iron Man than Tony
The story revolves around a kid who's supposed to become some sort of future criminal that destroys Stark's Corporation..and Arno going back in Time to kill the kid..but what Arno doesn't know is that Spider-Man is best friends with the Kid's father...so anyways....that's the basic premise of the battle..and needless to say..it was pretty one sided..(...Spider Man utterly destroys him...Even Arno couldn't believe that SM was beating him so badly..lol)
Originally posted by Capt.JK
All heroes at some point lose to someone we think they should have easily beaten, but since you and I don't write the comics, we have to accept their histories as they have been written, whether we like it or not. ALL of their histories.So just face the facts. Spidey would lose.
For you to think that these 3 couldn't defeat 1 man, when ALL of them have faced far more powerful characters ON THEIR OWN and beaten them; when ALL of them have faced down ARMIES and beaten them; is so pathetically "FANBOYISH" that I can't believe you actually believe your own posts. Get real.
at least take a few minutes from each statement before you contradict yourself man.......... jeez...........
and as for fanboyish......... nice name/picture/comment under picture/obsession/quote in your interests "I collect anything and everything with Captain America on it"
do you look in the mirror and NOT see a fanboy staring back?????????
me think the cap doth protest too much
If there's enough of Cap left for identifying his corpse, then he got off easy.
I'm sick of people talkin' about Cap's fabled experience. "Oh look I me I fought nazis!"
Spidey's stronger, faster, more durable, more agile, can outendure him, and is a superhuman, wheras Cap. is a mere peak human! Screw training, Cap. is mutilated.