Spiderman vs. Captain America/Daredevil/Wolverine

Originally posted by Linkalicious
Spiderman's webbing is a sticky glue for mere fractions of a second, perhaps a few seconds...at best. Once it adheres to it's surface it hardens quickly and becomes nearly unbreakable.

Can you give an example or reference to when he's used his webbing as a glue. I assume when you say glue you mean like in Who Framed Roger Rabbit....

I don't if he directly used the glue in any issues, however, I do remember a full out description of the web shooters capabilities in a hardback book titled SpiderMan..Official Story of Marvels hero..or something like that. It collected Amazing Fantasy 15, the first Chameleon story, and had a bio on all the characters as well as SM's powers. The glue was one of the many applications of the webbing that was mentioned.(It was also mentioned that he can spray it or shoot it as a single strand...) In addition..the strength of the webbing was stated in the book as being incredible strong, and it was stated that if the webbing was more dense or something, it could hold the Thing for life...Anyone who knows the title of this book feel free to chime in...

Of course none of them are strong enough to break the webbing but every one of them are capable of freeing a comrade in a matter of seconds...most specifically Wolverine.

I think your being a little far fetched with that one...anyway..a couple of seconds is a long time during the course of a battle...especially when every second counts..It will only take a second or two for SM to fire his web shooters once again to incapacitate another Trio member....

Spiderman is going to go and try to capitalize on the number advantage that he just created because it's obviously the most logical tactic to use. But when I think about it, every one of these characters is fully capable of keeping Spiderman occupied for minutes at a time. Freeing up a teammate is going to take seconds.
Good tactic for Spidey would be to web the one who's helping as well, but that leaves him vulnerable to the 3rd opponent.

Remember......Spidey has "two" webshooters...and he can web up more than one person at a time with but "one" of the web shooters...it would only take him seconds to do this...

I see what you're saying...and it's a very intriguing argument, but there's a significant difference between being THE BEST tacticioner vs. being a good tacticioner. He doesn't lead Marvel's greatest superhero team, and he wasn't unanamously chosen to be the leader of the good guys in Secret Wars for any other reason than the fact that he is the best leader in Marvel...bar none.

Cap's a good tacticioner, however, I just don't see his tactical skills giving him that much of an edge in a "random" battle against "any means necessary" Spider Man..tactical skill can only get you so far..and will not completely compensate for a lack of ability/power...

Cap knows all of these characters abilities in depth and has fought along side all of them. Much like in Secret Wars, they will follow his lead without question.

Maybe..maybe not...an any means necessary wolverine probably won't be listening to anyone.. Who know's what DD will do...I don't think Cap will be able to cordinate these 2 in battle as well as you believe...

I'll reply to the rest of your post later..I'm at work right now...

Originally posted by Linkalicious
Fact of the matter, everyone of these characters has taken abuse from far stronger characters than Spiderman and each one of them has gotten up from it. I think your putting a cap on "peak" level humans because you, much like all of us, don't have a firm enough defintion of what a peak human can do.

Well According to Marvel, Cap and DD have Olympic level stats...As does Wolvie, with the exception of his durability and stamina...IMO..that doesn't put them on a Superhuman level(Cap and DD that is..)

I've seen Captain America jump out of the Daily Bugle to save Spiderman, grab him, position himself above a flag pole, use the flagpole to cushion them before flinging them back in the air....only to fall several more stories downward until they landed through an awning. Both Spiderman and Captain America got up limping....but they both got up.

lol..that's..definately a PIS scenario....Come on now...how often do you see the Captain jumping from 2-3 story buildings and surviving...

Anyway..which one of these scenarios would you believe could take down Captain/DD quicker..

1. Getting hit by a fist that is able to support 10 +tons of pressure, and is 3 to 4 times the speed of a normal human...

2. Falling from a 2-3 story building...

I have no clue when #1-3 happened, but I know Spiderman regularly has his work cut out for him against the Human Torch.

When has he ever fought Venom and Carnage at the same time? He's teamed up with Venom to beat Carnage like....2x now.

Yah, I have Hulk vs. Spidey. Spidey barrages him with a speed blitz and Hulk doesn't feel a thing.

He's held his own against the entire FF before refer to the link below....

http://www.samruby.com/AmazingSpider-ManA/amazing_spiderman_001.htm

He's actually fought the Hulk on many occassions before...and fared pretty well...refer to these links below..

http://www.spiderfan.org/comics/reviews/spiderman_amazing/119.html

(he takes on the Hulk and the Avengers in this issue)
http://www.samruby.com/AmazingSpider-ManA/amazing_spiderman_ann03.htm

I Just threw Venom and Carnage in there, he's never fought them together..keep in mind though, both have taken down entire teams of people...

Which 6 would you like?

Okay Well it depends.. We could do a Doc Ock, Rhino, Shocker, Hydro-Man, Beetle, Electro Combo..or we could use the team that consisted of Venom or Sandman with the peeps mentioned above..or we can add the team that had Gog in it...Pick whichever team you like...and then please explain to me how the heck Cap/DD/Wolvie could pull a no prep battle off against these dudes...

Never in either of those characters history have they been knocked out in one punch, and they've been hit by much worst than Spiderman can offer. You're taking that "peak" human thing for granted again.... [/B]

lol...I've never seen Cap/DD hit by anyone as strong as SM, most of the time they're facing "human" level opponents and are able to bob and weave around them...I've never seen Cap/DD withstand a blow from the Hulk, Morlun, Thing, or other's of similar strength...and they shouldn't be able too...because accordng to Marvel, they're only human...

Originally posted by whobdamandog
Well According to Marvel, Cap and DD have Olympic level stats...As does Wolvie, with the exception of his durability and stamina...IMO..that doesn't put them on a Superhuman level(Cap and DD that is..)

According to Marvel who?

internet bios and comic cards?

I'm talking real comic books.

lol..that's..definately a PIS scenario....Come on now...how often do you see the Captain jumping from 2-3 story buildings and surviving...

Specifically 2-3 story buildings? not a whole lot.

I see him get slammed into brick walls, punched by enemies much much stronger than Spiderman, he's frequently right in front of bombs as they are being blown up. He takes incalcuably more abuse than any olympic level athlete could ever dream of taking.

Anyway..which one of these scenarios would you believe could take down Captain/DD quicker..

1. Getting hit by a fist that is able to support 10 +tons of pressure, and is 3 to 4 times the speed of a normal human...

2. Falling from a 2-3 story building...

1. Spiderman can press 10 tons of weight. That doesn't mean he can put 10 tons of pressure into each punch. I can bench press 225 lbs, but I can't punch something hard enough to lift 225 lbs.

2. The fall was much greater than 2-3 stories...

Quit clinging on to what bios from the marvel.com tell you and use comic book knowledge. You know damn well these characters have taken abuse from much stronger characters than Spiderman and continue to get up.

He's held his own against the entire FF before refer to the link below....

http://www.samruby.com/AmazingSpider-ManA/amazing_spiderman_001.htm

Held his own. He didn't beat them...he held his own. Are you going to try and tell me you don't think this trio could "hold their own" against the Fantastic Four?

He's actually fought the Hulk on many occassions before...and fared pretty well...refer to these links below..

http://www.spiderfan.org/comics/reviews/spiderman_amazing/119.html

And every single time it's come down to the same thing. Spiderman is too fast for Hulk to hit, and Hulk is too durable for Spidey to hurt. Hulk is slow...even by the Trio's standards.

(he takes on the Hulk and the Avengers in this issue)
http://www.samruby.com/AmazingSpider-ManA/amazing_spiderman_ann03.htm

He doesn't fight the Avengers, he joins the Avengers and his job is to find the Hulk.

Hulk fights him and "tosses him like a rag doll" until Hulk misses with a punch that bursts through some wall to release a bunch of gamma radiation...he then reverts to Banner.

I Just threw Venom and Carnage in there, he's never fought them together..keep in mind though, both have taken down entire teams of people...

Like "The Jury" 🙄

Trio could take either of of these two with less effort than it would take Spiderman....hence why I believe they could actually take Spiderman.

Okay Well it depends.. We could do a Doc Ock, Rhino, Shocker, Hydro-Man, Beetle, Electro Combo..or we could use the team that consisted of Venom or Sandman with the peeps mentioned above..or we can add the team that had Gog in it...Pick whichever team you like...and then please explain to me how the heck Cap/DD/Wolvie could pull a no prep battle off against these dudes...

Hmmm...no prep time battle huh?

Hulk & Spiderman were knocked out in a no prep battle by the Sinister Six.

Spiderman was never able to beat the Sinister Six without some for of prep work.

lol...I've never seen Cap/DD hit by anyone as strong as SM, most of the time they're facing "human" level opponents and are able to bob and weave around them...I've never seen Cap/DD withstand a blow from the Hulk, Morlun, Thing, or other's of similar strength...and they shouldn't be able too...because accordng to Marvel, they're only human...

Daredevil has been hit by Mr. Hyde, actually several times in a fight, and he kept getting up and went on to beat Hyde. They've fought a couple of times so a specific number of the top of my head would tough.

Captain America fought Namor in Captain America #423. Cap held his own for a while but Namor clearly outclassed him.

Strong enough for you?

According to Marvel....Spiderman is only human too. Get past the "human" aspect and respect the fact that all 4 characters are "super heroes"....they're more than the average man.

I couldn't agree more Link. It would appear that you covered all bases on that argument backed up with volume and issue numbers.
I respect that.
Realistically I don't know why you need to argue so much because anybody who has a shred of comic info would know that one character is a hand full for SM let along the trio combined. It's fanboyism now!!!
Pure and simple. Can't really argue with a fanboy you know?

I could see Spiderman hurting all these characters and giving them all one hell of a workout, but he just doesn't get the room for error with heroes that he does with bad guys. Based on the character he is....he's going to spend too much time talking and telling bad jokes and not enough time concentrating on his opponents.

Originally posted by LordFear
Realistically I don't know why you need to argue so much because anybody who has a shred of comic info would know that one character is a hand full for SM let along the trio combined. It's fanboyism now!!!

You know as well as I do, that in most cases, when a mid-level character as Spider-Man faces a popular streetlevel character as for example CA or DD, Spider-Man all of a sudden loses half of his powers and has actually a hard time hitting his opponent (in most cases, he doesn't even use his web, don't ask me why, ask the so-called writers).

Nobody likes it to see CA or DD being knocked down with one punch - the way it should be written - because they have not the durability to take a powerpunch from Spider-Man, and can not avoid Spider-Man's punches for long (to say the least).

I mean c'mon you call Cap and DD tier level????
Cap, leader of the Avengers enduring fighter of freedom and good, just a tier???
DD, the man without fear for a effing reason dude!!!
Why?
Because they haven't been bitten by a radioactive arachnid???
Because they don't have opponents like Venom or Carnage??
Or maybe because they are not in their early twenties, struggling with college and a sickly aunt or maybe they don't have time feeling sorrow for themselves over Gwen Stacey's death or MJ getting sucked in a time vortex or whateverthehell Parker is crying over these days!!!!!
Man c'mon quit knocking these guys statures down.
They are powerhouses in their own right.

Originally posted by LordFear
I mean c'mon you call Cap and DD tier level????
Cap, leader of the Avengers enduring fighter of freedom and good, just a tier???
DD, the man without fear for a effing reason dude!!!
Why?
Because they haven't been bitten by a radioactive arachnid???
Because they don't have opponents like Venom or Carnage??
Or maybe because they are not in their early twenties, struggling with college and a sickly aunt or maybe they don't have time feeling sorrow for themselves over Gwen Stacey's death or MJ getting sucked in a time vortex or whateverthehell Parker is crying over these days!!!!!
Man c'mon quit knocking these guys statures down.
They are powerhouses in their own right.

Cap and Daredevil are not powerhouses. They are two of the weakest heroes.

In a versus thread, the only way to get a worse pick than somebody of Daredevil's caliber, is to pick a hero with similar abilities, but not famous.

Originally posted by Linkalicious

According to Marvel who?

internet bios and comic cards?

I'm talking real comic books.

Me too..refer to the marvel handbook..still qualifies as a comic IMO..
And it's been mentioned in many comics that Captain is the "pinaccle of human perfection" key word is human in that sentence...

Specifically 2-3 story buildings? not a whole lot.

I see him get slammed into brick walls, punched by enemies much much stronger than Spiderman, he's frequently right in front of bombs as they are being blown up. He takes incalcuably more abuse than any olympic level athlete could ever dream of taking.

LOL..I think your getting a little far fetched when it comes to the Captains durability..I believe your getting him confused with the Hulk(ie withstanding bombs?...lol) Anyway...getting thrown into a brick wall doesn't compare with the intensity of the impact one would receive from someone who consistantly puts their fists thru brick walls, Rips sentinels heads with their bare hands, or lift cars/tanks/trains...

1. Spiderman can press 10 tons of weight. That doesn't mean he can put 10 tons of pressure into each punch. I can bench press 225 lbs, but I can't punch something hard enough to lift 225 lbs.

2. The fall was much greater than 2-3 stories...

Quit clinging on to what bios from the marvel.com tell you and use comic book knowledge. You know damn well these characters have taken abuse from much stronger characters than Spiderman and continue to get up.

Well..acording to comic books, it's been demonstrated that he can lift more than 10 tons...he's lifted a tank before..a subway train..massive building structures...just to name a few examples..Anway....any one whose bone/tissue structure is dense enough to do all the stuff listed, is going to pack one hell of a punch...and don't forget..SM also moves at superspeed as well...speed plus strength = one helluva punch.

I never read the comic with Cap jumping from the building but according to you...the pole was used to cushion the fall, thus lessening the impact....Cap couldn't be able to survive such a fall without some sort of plot device.

And I've never seen Cap/DD take direct hits from heavy hitters...any situation where this has occured is PIS. I've seen them dodge blows..and I've seen Cap absorb the impact of powerful blows with his shield...but I've never seen either get smacked upside the head by an unpulled punch from the likes of Hulk, Thor, Thing, etc..etc......SM..on the other hand..has received blows from these foes and others of similar strength/power.....you know damb well Cap/DD couldn't survive an unpulled punch from SM, let alone any of these powerhouses..and Wolvie..well..Wolvie himself has admitted to SM being able to break his neck with his power...

Held his own. He didn't beat them...he held his own. Are you going to try and tell me you don't think this trio could "hold their own" against the Fantastic Four?

Oh hell no..lol..please tell me your joking...they'd get killed...Reed Richard's has incapacitated Wolverine by his lonesome twice...Read the new enemy of the state storyline to see one example of this..(and don't try and say Wolvie took them all on..he had all kinds of help)
Sue Richards could easily enclose both in a force field..and all the hitting and the sheild in the billy club in the world would not take one of her force fields down...(And don't tell me that since black panther did it, Cap can do it..BP is waaaay smarter than all 3 and had all kinds of prep..)

And every single time it's come down to the same thing. Spiderman is too fast for Hulk to hit, and Hulk is too durable for Spidey to hurt. Hulk is slow...even by the Trio's standards.

He doesn't fight the Avengers, he joins the Avengers and his job is to find the Hulk.

Hulk fights him and "tosses him like a rag doll" until Hulk misses with a punch that bursts through some wall to release a bunch of gamma radiation...he then reverts to Banner.

BWAHAHAHAH..your joking right...read that summary of "To become an Avenger" issue again.. SM took down Hulk with his blows....he actually takes the Hulk a back with his punches...and the Trio being to fast for Hulk..all I have to say is...BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA....😆 😆

Originally posted by MatchesMalone
Cap and Daredevil are not powerhouses. They are two of the weakest heroes.

Obviously, you have NEVER read a Captain America or a DareDevil comic. Statements like this, with absolutely no basis in fact, are the reason this thread is as long as it is and has gotten as ugly as it has in the past.

Captain America and DareDevil are two of Marvel's most popular heroes for a reason. They are icons within the MU for a reason. They are icons for the same reason Bat Man is an icon in the DC Universe. They are men who have overcome incredible odds to become something MORE than just a man. They stand up in the face of their enemies and sometimes overwhelming odds and BEAT them. Painfully. This is why they are popular. This is why they are SUPER HEROES.

Captain America has defeated the likes of Scorpion, Mr. Hyde, the Wrecking Crew, the Absorbing Man, Electro, Dr. Doom, King Pin, Red Skull with the Cosmic Cube, M.O.D.O.C.K., Magneto, Task Master, the Serpent Society, Radioactive Man, Dragon Man, Baron Blood, Namor, Iron-Man... The list goes on and on and on...

Saying that either one of these guys (Cap or DD) are weak simply shows off a lack of knowledge about the character. Which means it has no place in this thread.

missed a few paragraphs from link's post..

Like "The Jury" 🙄

Trio could take either of of these two with less effort than it would take Spiderman....hence why I believe they could actually take Spiderman.

like Ghost Rider and Blaze...the Sinister Six..oh yeah and the Juggernaut..(he's a one man team)

Hulk & Spiderman were knocked out in a no prep battle by the Sinister Six.

Yes and he also came back to beat them with the addition of Gog to their team that very next issue I believe..

Not to mention he's taken on the whole team in Deadly Foes, and several other issues with little to no prep...Peter's smart and people underestimate him, he used the team against each other....

Daredevil has been hit by Mr. Hyde, actually several times in a fight, and he kept getting up and went on to beat Hyde. They've fought a couple of times so a specific number of the top of my head would tough.

Captain America fought Namor in Captain America #423. Cap held his own for a while but Namor clearly outclassed him.

Strong enough for you?

According to Marvel....Spiderman is only human too. Get past the "human" aspect and respect the fact that all 4 characters are "super heroes"....they're more than the average man. [/B]

The key word in that paragraph is "human" quit denying it buddy...Cap/DD/Wolvie may be a bit more than the "average" human..

But SM is much much much much much much much much much much much much much..did I say much?...more than the "average" human.

They will have a tough enough time hitting the guy...letting alone knocking him down with a punch or two..this battle could go either way..but I'd put my money on SM in 7/10 battles...

Originally posted by Capt.JK
Obviously, you have [B]NEVER read a Captain America or a DareDevil comic. Statements like this, with absolutely no basis in fact, are the reason this thread is as long as it is and has gotten as ugly as it has in the past.

Captain America and DareDevil are two of Marvel's most popular heroes for a reason. They are icons within the MU for a reason. They are icons for the same reason Bat Man is an icon in the DC Universe. They are men who have overcome incredible odds to become something MORE than just a man. They stand up in the face of their enemies and sometimes overwhelming odds and BEAT them. Painfully. This is why they are popular. This is why they are SUPER HEROES.

Captain America has defeated the likes of Scorpion, Mr. Hyde, the Wrecking Crew, the Absorbing Man, Electro, Dr. Doom, King Pin, Red Skull with the Cosmic Cube, M.O.D.O.C.K., Magneto, Task Master, the Serpent Society, Radioactive Man, Dragon Man, Baron Blood, Namor, Iron-Man... The list goes on and on and on...

Saying that either one of these guys (Cap or DD) are weak simply shows off a lack of knowledge about the character. Which means it has no place in this thread. [/B]

I believe most of the peeps Captain Had all kinds of help with..I don't ever remember Cap taking down Magneto, Electro, Absorbing Man, Dragon Man, Iron Man, etc, etc, by his lonesome..if he did I'm sure some sort of ridiculous plot device was involved, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong however...and don't forget that SM is as much if not more of an Icon than all three of these characters combined..Hell...SM is essentially Marvel's flagship charcter..he's kind of like Marvel's Superman...so even when comparing the characters from an iconic stature type of viewpoint...I still have to give SM the advantage...

Originally posted by whobdamandog
I believe most of the peeps Captain Had all kinds of help with..I don't ever remember Cap taking down Magneto, Electro, Absorbing Man, Dragon Man, Iron Man, etc, etc, by his lonesome..if he did I'm sure some sort of ridiculous plot device was involved, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong however...and don't forget that SM is as much if not more of an Icon than all three of these characters combined..Hell...SM is essentially Marvel's flagship charcter..he's kind of like Marvel's Superman...so even when comparing the characters from an iconic stature type of viewpoint...I still have to give SM the advantage...

Nope. All of these stories I mentioned either had him by himself or rescuing the Falcon (Now THAT'S a weak character), and just because Cap wins, how is that a "ridiculous plot device"? Captain America has been around for 60+ years for a reason.

And I didn't say Spider-Man wasn't an icon. You are correct and I totally agree with you that he is the flagship character of the MU, just as Super Man and Bat Man are for DC. I never took that away from the character of Spidey. What I did say was that Captain America and DareDevil are icons themselves of the MU. Captain America more so than DD, but all the same they are both huge within the comic industry. If you pick up a random sampling of marketing items from both companies over the span of there existence (Marvel and DC), you will see that Marvel without question produced more individual Spider-Man memorabilia, followed by the Hulk. If it was a group of characters within the memorabilia, it ALWAYS included Spider-Man, Hulk, and Captain America, and later on Wolverine. For DC, it was Super Man and Bat Man, probably about equal.

But this post was in response to someone putting Cap and DD down as icons, as if they were the WonderTwins or something. These two SUPER HEROES have more than held their own within the comic industry. No character could stand the test of time if the fans didn't believe in their stories. Does anyone remember the Shield, who appeared in Pep Comics #1, 14 months before Captain America? No? There's a reason. Captain America is an ICON!

just for starters, the idea of a well known and respected tactician and natural leader like the cap yelling something like "get em guys!" had me rolling on the ground in laughter, that's some of the most farcicle nonsense I ever heard.....hilarious though.

Anyways, again DD and captain america have held their own against much more frightening odds or opponents than spiderman, and then on occassions they have held their own against spiderman himself.....this point is really where the argument should have begun and ended. PIS is the number one worst way to avoid a creative argument about your character,,,,,,peter parker getiing his spider powers by a radioactive spider bite is PIS, I had an entire disscussion in science class as to why this isn't even possible. I mean the whole "peak humans should only be able to take this" argument is somewhat invalid due to the respecitve histories of each character. they've all put up good showings against spiderman or his villains or other characters above spiderman's level,,,,,it's illogical to say that them putting up a good fight against spiderman on their own is PIS or out of character when they do this stuff on a semi-regualr basis. If we were to take all these characters as a bunch of statistics then i concede spiderman would clean house.....the the fact of the matter is that what makes these characters who they are are their histories, their comic appearances, and actuall feats they've preformed,,,,their not a bunch of stats,,,,even so stats are next to useless in the MU with power increases and decreases happining at constant rates. the trio's gonna clean his clock.

and as far as spiderman "holding his own against the ff" BUll,,,,have you read the comic? spiderman snuck in on an unsuspectinf ff who were holding back trying not to harm him. Spidey had something to prove against a bunch of confused people in a non-fight. At least in enemy of the state they weren't holding back against wolvie, even reed was trying to at least incapacitate logan.
freaking spidey fans always pulling crap out of context.

i used to read every post on this thread....... now i don't.......bored

everyone is reposting the same things but writing twice as much....... and double posting (that's fun for everyone) 🙁

i still vote that Spider-Man wins the majority of conflicts........ listen to me........ i'm your KMC tournament champion damnit..... what i say goes 😛

lol what you say goes huh? "respect my pimp hand!"

lol

I think the reason things keep getting posted over and over, is because instead of debating viable points, or reveiwing all of the issues,,, alot of people neglect them and chalk up stuff to pis.

spiderman cant kill wolverine but can cream the other guys

Originally posted by DarkMenace
spiderman cant kill wolverine but can cream the other guys

Well, so far, in the comics, he hasn't been able to do any of the above. But hey, you present a REALLY well thought out argument. Thanks for posting.

This thread is getting pretty repetitive...like the damb Juggy vs Hulk thread...I've already made my point a million times...so for now on if anyone wants a rebuttal..just scan through previous pages...lol..that's going to be my pat response to every argument...

Y'all have got to admit this has been a funny arse thread though..