Spiderman vs. Captain America/Daredevil/Wolverine

Originally posted by jinzin
I think the reason things keep getting posted over and over, is because instead of debating viable points, or reveiwing all of the issues,,, alot of people neglect them and chalk up stuff to pis.

Many neglect to review/respond directly to a lot of the pertinent points made in this thread because they can't...and when they do half of their arguments are recycled arguments used by others. That's what causes some of the repetition.

Some use contradictory logic when trying to prove their point. One minute they'll say that "All characters history should be used" and the next minute they will say "SM beating the X-men/Firelord/Sinister Six/Tri Sentinel/FF, etc,etc, etc, is PIS.." And then the sad thing is..they'll use this argument against you..and say your the one who's being contradictory...lol...(we definately got some politicians in the making in here..)

Others will just give random examples..that have no consistancy to them...and are usually easily rebutted by another random example on the opposing side...or better yet..they'll just ignore the argument all together, and won't respond to it...lol..anyway...based on the scenario that matches presented...

Everyone uses their usual weapons and abilities. Spiderman will use any means necessary to take out this team, the trio will do the same towards Spiderman. Who wins?

I think a lot of people keep missing the point that these characters will be fighting "out of character" in this battle..I mean how often do you see Spidey/DD/Captain A going for the the kill in the comics...that's why we have these forumns..so that we the readers can come up with their own scenarios..and decide how these battles should play out...not based on what some joe fanboy comic book writer has written or thinks...

Any way...with or without the "PIS" argument..I believe I've made my point..y'all have been given multiple scenarios/historical facts/reasons as how/why SM could overcome the Trio rather easily.....but for the sake of not repeating these points again..I'll just go ahead and say "refer to previous pages"...

Oh yeah Spidey Wins..deal with it...

Originally posted by whobdamandog
y'all have been given multiple scenarios/historical facts/reasons as how/why SM could overcome the Trio rather easily

and multiple examples of multiple posting....... lol

I'm not gonna deal with it when it's spidey thats gonna be "dealing with it"...dealing with getting his ass handed to him.

but I agree about your other points.....I think the starters for said threads need to be more specific for the characters in question.

"Some use contradictory logic when trying to prove their point. One minute they'll say that "All characters history should be used" and the next minute they will say "SM beating the X-men/Firelord/Sinister Six/Tri Sentinel/FF, etc,etc, etc, is PIS.." And then the sad thing is..they'll use this argument against you..and say your the one who's being contradictory...lol...(we definately got some politicians in the making in here..) "

lol...tell me about it.

Originally posted by whobdamandog
...I think a lot of people keep missing the point that these characters will be fighting "out of character" in this battle..I mean how often do you see Spidey/DD/Captain A going for the the kill in the comics...

The problem with taking this position is that if you do this then you're not really talking about the characters in question. You're simply talking about a bunch of stats and numbers. If you're going to post a battle of "suchandsuch" fights "whatshisname", then you have to look at the character as a whole, and that includes how he fights, what tactics the character uses, what abilities he brings to the battle, what his history is, and who his character is. Who in these threads actually picks an argument to contribute to involving characters they know absolutely NOTHING about (I mean besides the Spider-Man fans)?
😆boxing😆

Seriously, this is why that whole "organ snatching" theory turned into such a joke. Spider-Man doesn't fight that way. Never has, never will. Just like Captain America has never been so "impressed" by any opponent he's up against that he didn't immediately start formulating a plan of attack and defense. You have to accept the way these characters act in combat, or else it's just a bunch of number-crunching crap. And that's NOT the way comics are read or written.

that's fine in a regular fight, but this time it's a case of.....

Originally posted by MatchesMalone
Spiderman will use any means necessary

it's about their potential more than their history......... therefore killing is fine and acceptable

Originally posted by Capt.JK
[B] Seriously, this is why that whole "organ snatching" theory turned into such a joke.

Especially since you've come up with nothing other than "Spider-Man does not fight that way" to dispute it. Which means nothing because according to the thread orginator both Spidey and the trio can use ANY means nessecary for the win.

Originally posted by Capt.JK
The problem with taking this position is that if you do this then you're not really talking about the characters in question. You're simply talking about a bunch of stats and numbers. If you're going to post a battle of "suchandsuch" fights "whatshisname", then you have to look at the character as a whole, and that includes how he fights, what tactics the character uses, what abilities he brings to the battle, what his history is, and who his character is. Who in these threads actually picks an argument to contribute to involving characters they know absolutely [B]NOTHING about (I mean besides the Spider-Man fans)?

Did you miss the question from the previous post? How often do Captain A/DD/Spider Man fight for the kill? Almost never. Even Wolverine rarely goes for the kill, unless he's going through one of his bezerker rages.

My point is that this entire scenario essentially brings each combatant "out of character" based on the "any means necessary" clause. If we were to exclusively base this battle on each character's respective "history", then we would have a debate full of "SM beat Firelord", "Cap Beath Thanos", "Wolverine beat the Living Tribunal", and other "historical" PIS arguments..which would make for a very uninteresting debate...

Okay, let's say they do act in character. Let's give them something to kill over, shall we?

Spiderman: If they kill MaryJane AND Aunt May, Spidey will go on the most incredible and unstoppable killing spree of his life on those three.

Captain America: Let's just say that Spiderman committed some horrible terrorist act against America, killing millions. I'm pretty sure Cap would hang up the little Boy Scout hat for this one fight.

DareDevil: Let's say Spiderman kills Elektra. Even accidentally. DD would get hella pissed and go after Spidey to kill him.

Wolverine: This one really won't take much honestly. Spiderman kills Jean. Wolverine goes into a state of piss-a-tude that is unmeasurable. I think he'll then.

There, now that they've all been set up, IN CHARACTER might I add, this will make for a much more interesting fight.

I still believe Spiderman wins though. He has a much stronger will to live during his fights than the others. That and he's absurdly much stronger than the three put together, as well as faster and I think much smarter in and out of a fight than the three. Spidey thinks up complicated plans on the fly. I think he'll easily figure a way to defeat/kill all three.

Close game, but Spidey takes home the cup.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
...I still believe Spiderman wins though. He has a much stronger will to live during his fights than the others...

The problem with your entire analysis is it is based on something that we will NEVER be able to find in any of their comics. How exactly do you purport to tell us that Spider-Man has "a much stronger will to live during his fights than the others". Exactly which issue will we find this information in? Basically this is just your belief about this character probably based primarily on your admiration and knowledge of Spider-Man and/or your dislike or lack of real knowledge about the other three.

...and I think much smarter in and out of a fight than the three. Spidey thinks up complicated plans on the fly. I think he'll easily figure a way to defeat/kill all three...

Again, we have a similar problem here. Unfortunately for you, the comics DO NOT back you up on this one. Anyone who reads Marvel Comics on a regular basis over any length of time can tell you that in the MU, Captain America is THE MAN when it comes to strategic analysis of a fight, during the actual fight. That is why he is ALWAYS chosen as the leader of every group of heroes he has ever worked with. There is no one better. Period. It is what his character is based on. It is what he does. Hell, he's still the leader of the New Avengers, which includes three of the four heroes listed in this discussion! And during the latest Secret Wars series, they were all in it , and he led them all!

There is just no way Spider-Man is going to be able to out-think Captain America on the battlefield. The comics back up this statement, whether you like it or not. Being a chemistry geek is not going to help the poor web-head out in this fight.

Cap I feel for ya on this one man....unfortunately there is no way that this message will ever get through to the spidey fans.....no way.....it's like he's webbed heir eyes from the truth.

"Especially since you've come up with nothing other than "Spider-Man does not fight that way" to dispute it. "

dude that's all we really need to say to dispute that. There's no point in carrying that any further. lol. If we really have to explain again why thi is such a joke to us, you are beyond our help.

Any means necessary. Well does that really imply that spidey will kill. I've only seen him engaged for a kill possibly several times at the most and he couldn't pull any of them off. Even after gwen dided he couldn't do it. I don't think that the term any means necessary necessarily means that everyone will be going for the kill. If they were possessed maybe,,,but in a straight up fight, by any means or not, they probably won't be going for the kill.

Originally posted by jinzin
but in a straight up fight, by any means or not, they probably won't be going for the kill.

any means means any means........ killing is a "means"

whether he kills or not he can knockout or web up any of them

I'm not debating whether or not killing is a means. lol. I'm just insinuating that spiderman or cap for that matter are simply incapible of taking advantage of the "means" in question.

regardless of whether they would or wouldn't in Marvel comics, in this thread they go by the rules laid out by the thread starter

ok well then I ask the thread starter if these characters are to pulled so far out of character that they will be going for the kill?

not that it really matters since in my opinion spiderman would still get his ass handed to him.

and in mine he wouldn't............ don't you just hate people's freedom of speech and expression..... lol

nope! 😉 lol.

Originally posted by Scoobless
any means means [B]any means........ killing is a "means"

whether he kills or not he can knockout or web up any of them [/B]

This leaves only Wolverine. Dangerous enemy, but nothing Spider-Man can't handle.

Amen.

Originally posted by jinzin
Cap I feel for ya on this one man....unfortunately there is no way that this message will ever get through to the spidey fans.....no way.....it's like he's webbed heir eyes from the truth.

"Especially since you've come up with nothing other than "Spider-Man does not fight that way" to dispute it. "

dude that's all we really need to say to dispute that. There's no point in carrying that any further. lol. If we really have to explain again why thi is such a joke to us, you are beyond our help.

Any means necessary. Well does that really imply that spidey will kill. I've only seen him engaged for a kill possibly several times at the most and he couldn't pull any of them off. Even after gwen dided he couldn't do it. I don't think that the term any means necessary necessarily means that everyone will be going for the kill. If they were possessed maybe,,,but in a straight up fight, by any means or not, they probably won't be going for the kill.

The thread said: ANY means nesscessary. Granted, Spidey doesn't HAVE to kill them to win, but he could, and in this case (for once) Spidey's stong morality IS NOT an issue. Oh go ahead, say Spidey won't go for the kill, say he's too morally bound, it won't change the fact that he could, not that it's absolutely nessecary, I mean, he could KO the lot of them with one punch for each....but that doesn't stop Spidey from doing so.

And, since we now have the scenarios set so that all four characters are in the mood for killing, I'd say it still goes to Spidey. So Wolvie's in beserker mode? That's impressive. 🙄 It doesn't boost him up to Spidey speed, strength, reaction time, etc. He's still Wolvie, only now he's an unbrideled Wolvie clawing at anything that moves, doesn't change the fact that Spidey could just grab his wrists. Wolvie's no Hulk nor does he have the Hulk's powers so no matter how much he thinks of Jean he is not pulling free. Heck, Spidey doesn't have to do that, he could just mulekick Wolvie into the next town as he charges forward, and please don't tell me that Wolvie's going to keep a clear head long enough not to run straight at Spidey.

Fact of the matter is: Spidey CAN KILL despite the many times he had opportunites to kill in comics and hasn't. Has anyone said that that's the only way for Spidey to win? No. Has anyone actually said that Spidey will without a shadow of a doubt go for the kill? No. Can Spidey go for the kill? Yes. Why? Because this fight has nothing to do with comic continuity. Granted, I have used examples of Spidey's power from comics, but that was just to showcase Spidey's potential, it has nothing to do with his morals. And neither does this fight.

In an all-out brawl, no holding back, Spidey wins easy. Too versatile and maneuverable in too many areas dealing with too many people. And the physical advantages he has in his ploy are too, too much for any human to deal with, not to mention any mutant in peak condition (a healing factor cannot harden your mind to protect one's self from concussive force, force of which Spidey has in abundance).

Originally posted by StrawNilla
You say that they don't have to kill, but what I'm reading between the lines is that you hope they don't go for the kill because frankly, Cap and DD are helplessly vulnerable to an unpulled punch from Spidey.

The thread said: ANY means nesscessary. Granted, Spidey doesn't HAVE to kill them to win, but he could, and in this case (for once) Spidey's stong morality IS NOT an issue. Oh go ahead, say Spidey won't go for the kill, say he's too morally bound, it won't change the fact that he could, not that it's absolutely nessecary, I mean, he could KO the lot of them with one punch for each....but that doesn't stop Spidey from doing so.

And, since we now have the scenarios set so that all four characters are in the mood for killing, I'd say it still goes to Spidey. So Wolvie's in beserker mode? That's impressive. 🙄 It doesn't boost him up to Spidey speed, strength, reaction time, etc. He's still Wolvie, only now he's an unbrideled Wolvie clawing at anything that moves, doesn't change the fact that Spidey could just grab his wrists. Wolvie's no Hulk nor does he have the Hulk's powers so no matter how much he thinks of Jean he is not pulling free. Heck, Spidey doesn't have to do that, he could just mulekick Wolvie into the next town as he charges forward, and please don't tell me that Wolvie's going to keep a clear head long enough not to run straight at Spidey.

Fact of the matter is: Spidey CAN KILL despite the many times he had opportunites to kill in comics and hasn't. Has anyone said that that's the only way for Spidey to win? No. Has anyone actually said that Spidey will without a shadow of a doubt go for the kill? No. Can Spidey go for the kill? Yes. Why? Because this fight has nothing to do with comic continuity. Granted, I have used examples of Spidey's power from comics, but that was just to showcase Spidey's potential, it has nothing to do with his morals. And neither does this fight.

In an all-out brawl, no holding back, Spidey wins easy. Too versatile and maneuverable in too many areas dealing with too many people. And the physical advantages he has in his ploy are too, too much for any human to deal with, not to mention any mutant in peak condition (a healing factor cannot harden your mind to protect one's self from concussive force, force of which Spidey has in abundance).

Hallelujah!!