first of all, when discussing comic books, u shouldnt look too much at physics, cause most of the time, the writers dont think much about them, true that in the real universe, anything that is part of EXISTANCE, be it matter, energy, space, time, gravity or zero point energy from hyperspace. but that wasnt true in the marvel universe and secret wars 1 and 2. and indeed the beyonder wasnt part of this universe or multiverseeven when he was in this universe. anyway, another thing is that the tribunal IS NOT GOD, he serves the marvel GOD.
on a side note, black holes are not completely explained in any sense, infact most OF WHAT WE DO KNOW ABOUT THEM IS ALSO THEORY, but for the most part, they remain unexplained, hell did u know that something as simple as the physics of a simple tornadoe or whirlpool or also theoretical right now. so we shouldnt be too sure about just something that we read in a book or the net about science.
Originally posted by Mider
pfft 🙂 what science page did you go to find that house wrath? I know you did 😉 it still doesnt matter you dont know whats inside the black hole 😛 and no its not totally know why it happens and a nova explodes dosent it? We are talking about jurisdiction not power The Beyonder was not under the LT"s juridiction or power.
Kid, I've studied astronomy probably since before you were born, surely since before you could read. I don't get my information from my high school textbook. You really don't want to get into a scientific debate with me sport. I'll tolerate *to a point* your rambling about a comic book character, but I'll rip you to shreds if you think I'll allow you to discuss science or history with me on an equal level. Not going to happen.
Originally posted by leonheartmm
first of all, when discussing comic books, u shouldnt look too much at physics, cause most of the time, the writers dont think much about them, true that in the real universe, anything that is part of EXISTANCE, be it matter, energy, space, time, gravity or zero point energy from hyperspace. but that wasnt true in the marvel universe and secret wars 1 and 2. and indeed the beyonder wasnt part of this universe or multiverseeven when he was in this universe. anyway, another thing is that the tribunal IS NOT GOD, he serves the marvel GOD.on a side note, black holes are not completely explained in any sense, infact most OF WHAT WE DO KNOW ABOUT THEM IS ALSO THEORY, but for the most part, they remain unexplained, hell did u know that something as simple as the physics of a simple tornadoe or whirlpool or also theoretical right now. so we shouldnt be too sure about just something that we read in a book or the net about science.
I didn't say they were completely explained. Few things in the astronomical world are completely explained, including the Earth itself. Of course much of it is theory, but it's accepted theory, meaning scientists are open to differing points of view but what's known now is expected to be the case. Just as the Big Bang is accepted *though it's losing ground*, but still theory. I don't read my science on the internet, lol, that would be quite foolish.
Living Tribunal (or any other character) will not be illustrated to fix every problem that happens in the Marvel Universe, otherwise that defeats the purpose of a storyline.
Perhaps it was the writers' mistake to even make LT beyond a cosmic judge as his placement leaves many to wonder why he doesn't engage on an issue himself - whether it be unconcern or another factor.
As to the emphasis of scientific reasoning behind the abilities described in comics, writers may acknowledge certain factors, such as the "grandfather paradox" with Legion killing Professor Xavier (he therefore ceased to exist and started the AOA series), but other ones are left to pure fictious feats (undescribed ability of flight).
first off it is very important that we never confuse real science with comic book science. with regards to beyonder, i alwys understood that his body or another beyonder's for that matter is an entire reality unto itself. so that means all the beyonders' bodies combined is what makes the "beyond" realm. we dont know if this realm just happened upon itself or TOAA him/it/herself created to mind f*ck everybody, including LT ,all we know that the "beyond" realm exists independently of the multiverse. We also know that LT has jursidiction over the entire multiverse. Therefore, it is logical to assume that providing that the Beyonder remains outside the multiversal time/space continuum he will be "beyond" the influence of LT(pun intended)
as we have learned in the Earth/Paradise/Universe X series. whenever somebody time travels it just creates another alternate universe for mephisto to escape into. seeing as how there are myriads of time travelers in the MU, it is also logical to assume that with each new created reality LT's power concievably grows.(maybe thats strecthing it a bit)
so at the end of the day we can say that if the beyonder ventures into the time/space that LT governs, he will fall under his jurisdiction, whether or not LT can will him out of existence we dont know but at least he could still have some time of influence over him
Also, with the advent of that bull s-hit marvel/dc crossover i dont know wtf to think anymore, cuz if the brothers are the total sum of everything in thier respective universe,(which is exactly what it said in the comic) by my reasoning, that means that the one representing marvel should either "BE" or be more powerful that TOAA.
does any one have any thoughts?
Yes, Original Beyonder > LT.
As for Marvel Vs. DC, that was a cross over. Cross overs don't count in debates or reasoning of a comic book universe. 'Cause Logan beat up Lobo and was able to cut through Thanos with his BONE CLAWS. There are other flaws in this fight as well (Namor losing to Aquaman, etc.). Please don't really on cross overs.
Again, the Brothers were reconned to be nothing more than a master plain of LT & Spectre. I have that scan somewhere. When I find it I'll post it.
In the original beyond realm there was only a single beyonder witch is the star of this thread there were no others he was the only one and thus came to this universe cause of wanting to see what it was like to feel what others did, after secret wars one and two they said there were other beyonders but as it pertains to this thread? The beyonder im talking about is the only beyonder there are no others.
Originally posted by Mider
rolls eyes your arragance is pathetic Wrath, there is no longer a debate in this forum about who is the more powerful character, The Beyonder could clearly win, how funny you gave a rebutle to my sciecnt talk but not to the more important example about Korvac. Did i mention your a d**k head?
I'll stop calling you kid when you grow the hell up. Which isn't likely to be any time soon kid. So live it, learn it, love it kid. As for my arrogance, you needn't concern yourself with it. Arrogance is far more acceptable than stupidity, as you'll soon learn in the real world. As for my rebuttal, I gave you one to the 'science talk' because that IS more important than a comic book discussion. The 'who would win' is opinion, your absolute lack of knowledge in science is fact. Thus you need to be educated. Dick head huh? Lol, and you think you're an adult? Grow up.
Kid.
Originally posted by manjaro
first off it is very important that we never confuse real science with comic book science. with regards to beyonder, i alwys understood that his body or another beyonder's for that matter is an entire reality unto itself. so that means all the beyonders' bodies combined is what makes the "beyond" realm. we dont know if this realm just happened upon itself or TOAA him/it/herself created to mind f*ck everybody, including LT ,all we know that the "beyond" realm exists independently of the multiverse. We also know that LT has jursidiction over the entire multiverse. Therefore, it is logical to assume that providing that the Beyonder remains outside the multiversal time/space continuum he will be "beyond" the influence of LT(pun intended)
Well since TOAA is never depicted, LT is as close to the power of TOAA as is allowed in the multiverse. But I agree Beyonder was created outside the multiverse. I stated that many times. However....
so at the end of the day we can say that if the beyonder ventures into the time/space that LT governs, he will fall under his jurisdiction, whether or not LT can will him out of existence we dont know but at least he could still have some time of influence over him [/QUOTE]
Absolutely. Of course he's not going to actually will him out of existence, because that makes for a poor storyline. If he did that, no Secret Wars. But he still has power that Beyonder cannot hope to have.
Dude if Korvac is from a crossover you're ranting about nothing. Either way one universe is no big deal. LT has destroyed a few himself. Again, knowing all things that have happened and will ever happen there's no reason for LT to interfere in every little thing that happens. Especially if he sees that attempts to threaten the multiverse will be unsuccessful. It doesn't matter that the Eternals "decided" not to destroy the universe, LT already knew that. He derives his power directly from TOAA so he has as much power as TOAA decides he should have.
Also, Even if marvel changed there mind, about there only being one Beyonder, this still counts. Marvel said it, not wrathofachilles or I.