I think the main sticking point was Zero's comment about 9-11. Which was unfortunate and shortsighted. No one on earth thinks that ANY country deserves that kind of terrorism coming to their shores.
And Zero darling you will have to try harder than that to hack me off, I dont play these little reindeer games you all got going on in here. Every one of you is to blame for turning this into a free for all.
Originally posted by Jedi Priestess
I think the main sticking point was Zero's comment about 9-11. Which was unfortunate and shortsighted. No one on earth thinks that ANY country deserves that kind of terrorism coming to their shores.And Zero darling you will have to try harder than that to hack me off, I dont play these little reindeer games you all got going on in here. Every one of you is to blame for turning this into a free for all.
You should know I wasnt trying to hack you off JP? Just pointing out that its hard to post in a thread like this without saying something thats going to offend someone else unless you are overcareful, which you were not.
Case in point: I still stand by my 9-11 comment as entirely relevant, (if said in disgust and thus with a heavy handed tone)
I'm dog tired of reading VLPs twisted lies about it, but If you want to discuss how it was shortsighted and unfortunate i'll go through the whole thing again. Without swearing.
I doubt thats what you want tho, you probably just want to include your 2 cents comment, and not back it up: Again - as above... exactly the kind of thing you supposedly came in here to berate us for.
here it is,
my posts in their entirety that started this nonesense, in concecutive order. if you choose to selectively ignore my initial points about shiites, among other points, then so be it, what can i do about it? nothing.
so take it or leave it
Originally posted by PVS
so basically its like this:iraq will never have a military force to counter its neighbors'.
iran would jump at the chance of taking over iraq once the u.s. (supposedly) pulls out
iraq consists of a majority of shiites who would probably welcome iran with open arms
"So it’s no wonder that many Iraqis—including the majority of the insurgents, who still see themselves as fighting foreign invaders—simply don’t believe the American administration’s spin about pulling out of Iraq sometime soon. Iraq’s neighbors don’t believe that either. And neither should anyone else. "
very true...and im think that the true goal of the insurgency is not to free iraq, but to join iran...and thanks to bush, we may be witnessing the birth of a new superpower...or the beginning of a chain of events which lead to one...one that hates us far more than the communists ever did 🙁
Originally posted by PVS
it is an editorial piece lil b., but many points are dead on and only make sense.
regardless of this guy's opinion, the iraqis' ability to defend themselves is little to none...and if invaded by iran...would they really put up a resistance? or would iran be "welcome as liberators"?
Originally posted by PVS
1- you are preaching to the choire2- i never stated the iraqis felt the need to be 'protected' from iran
3-you obviosly did not read through the entirety of my post, or you have caught it's meaning. maybe in the future you should before you insult me, ok?
i simply stated the the majority of iraqis are shiite muslems, who fall under the influence of iran. that is why the u.s. backed out of the shiite uprising in 91, because they did not want THEM to take over the country.
which is stupid, because they are the majority...who did they expect to overthrow saddam hussein?anyway, if the u.s. were to all of the sudden back out, you can bet your ass that iran will move right in, with little to no resistance. thus my qoute from dubya of how iranian forces would be 'welcome as liberators'.
its a scenario many iraqis would welcome.and there lies the problem, the big can of worms which the bush administration has opened. without the u.s. in iraq, there WILL be a new superpower. and it wont stop at iraq either. as evil a bastard as hussein was, he kept middle east powers in check. now, without the u.s., there would be a massive power vaccume which will be easily and redily filled by its eastern neighbor.
now how the f**k is that so stupid of me to say?
its not opinion, it has nothing to do with whether the u.s. SHOULD be there, its just fact.
ok, have a nice day
Im not even going go into this again PVS, your posts are giving me a headache.
Your posts stop interesting me after few pages of this thread, the only posts of your i am ever interested in are those addressed to me - otherwise i have no interest in what you have to say as you do indeed have a habbit of twisting things to fit you.
Oh Zero sweetie, I didnt give you my 2 cents, I gave you approximately a half a cent worth of my opinion. I said exactly what I meant, there was no attempt to be overcareful. If you want to make a comment like that about 9/11 it's within your rights, but you can't expect to make that type of remark without getting an earfull or in this case a screenfull of backlash. I wonder perhaps if you'd have the balls required to say that to a surviving family member of the WTC?
I posted my opinion about the topic in the thread a few pages back and I do believe that I made my point. You need to realise that in all reality there is NOTHING thats completely trustworthy to back up ANY argument regarding this topic. The only thing ANY of us has are media reports that are slanted in ANY country. Unless you are sitting on the front lines in Iraq, or living in Bagdad, really not a single one of us knows jack about this topic for sure.
I posted my 2 cents here (as you put it ) at the end because you have all been behaving like children on a playground. And if you think you havent been then thats your opinion too. You are the supreme master of baiting Zero and you know it. Thats why I find you so hilarious here at KMC, but that very thing makes you a target. PVS, blows up at the slightest provocation and posts before thinking IMHO.
My two cents worth then is simply this: this started out as a debate and then became a free for all and you all have a hand in it.
My opinion on this matter is that there are inhumane and immoral soldiers in EVERY SINGLE army known to man, the US included, and if a person expects to sit there passing judgement, then theyd better belong to a country that has no armed services.
Anything else I can do you for you?
damn I always have to edit for spelling pissed
Originally posted by Jedi Priestess
If you want to make a comment like that about 9/11 it's within your rights, but you can;t expect to make that type of remark without getting an earfull or in this case a screenfull of backlash. I wonder perhaps if you'd have the balls required to say that to a surviving family member of the WTC?
You are of course 100% right about the baiting aspect of some of what i say - it's second nature to me and almost so instinctive that i forget sometimes that i do it. It's simply my way of filtering out who's worth talking to. Not perhaps the nicest method, but then i'm really not concerned with being nice. KMC has never been a popularity contest for me. That said, I'd hate to piss you off.
As to my balls. Some plain talking about 9-11 is one of the things I seem to always end up doing when I'm over in the US. Jaws fall open when you dare to suggest that perhaps 9-11 isn't all that special, and that hundreds of innocents die as the result of acts of war* each and every day. If we had a moments reverend hush for every atrocity committed here in the UK during the Irish "problem" we'd spend all our days in silence.
It's the first time America has had to deal with this - it's hard when the beast of the modern wold arrives on your doorstep, but the rest of us are sickeningly used to it. I sympathise far, far more than you know - but wont pander to the circus of national grief and treat the thing like a sacred word that can only be whispered.
*terrorist war or "official" war over non existent WOMD is an irrelevancy to the maimed and dead - its a matter of perception depending on your beliefs, nothing more.
Originally posted by Mr Zero
If we had a moments reverend hush for every atrocity committed here in the UK during the Irish "problem" we'd spend all our days in silence.
It's the first time America has had to deal with this - it's hard when the beast of the modern wold arrives on your doorstep, but the rest of us are sickeningly used to it. I sympathise far, far more than you know - but wont pander to the circus of national grief and treat the thing like a sacred word that can only be whispered.
Your explanation was much better done than mine, perhaps it will make people understand what we mean this time?
Originally posted by Mr Zero
You are of course 100% right about the baiting aspect of some of what i say - it's second nature to me and almost so instinctive that i forget sometimes that i do it. It's simply my way of filtering out who's worth talking to. Not perhaps the nicest method, but then i'm really not concerned with being nice. KMC has never been a popularity contest for me. That said, I'd hate to piss you off.Ok is that sacarsm? Cause I think I may have missed it? 😂
As to my balls. yes??
Some plain talking about 9-11 is one of the things I seem to always end up doing when I'm over in the US. Jaws fall open when you dare to suggest that perhaps 9-11 isn't all that special, and that hundreds of innocents die as the result of acts of war* each and every day. If we had a moments reverend hush for every atrocity committed here in the UK during the Irish "problem" we'd spend all our days in silence.
ah but see, here in alot of ways I agree with you. There have been many things like this all over the world and our pain is no greater than another countries, but a moment of silence never killed anyone.It's the first time America has had to deal with this - it's hard when the beast of the modern wold arrives on your doorstep, but the rest of us are sickeningly used to it. I sympathise far, far more than you know - but wont pander to the circus of national grief and treat the thing like a sacred word that can only be whispered.
*terrorist war or "official" war over non existent WOMD is an irrelevancy to the maimed and dead - its a matter of perception depending on your beliefs, nothing more.
I agree with this point as well. Obviously someone up in Washington dropped the ball big time there. And it is my belief that the US should get the hell out of the middle east and stay out of the middle east forever, period end of story.
Any questions?