For or Against Euthanasia

Originally posted by Bardock42
So?

That's a sad story, but a story I was told by my teacher goes like this:

There was a patient who just didn't want to go on living anymore, requesting to be killed. Of course euthanasia was illegal. The doctor simply gave her nothing and said "Dude, euthanasia is illegal". She then left the room. The next morning, to her surprise, the patient lay on the floor dead, it turned out he had stabbed himself 50 times, trying to kill himself but unable to fulfill it, the stab wounds alone must habe been excrutiatin, but when he fell out of his bad from extreme loss of blood he hit the floor head on and opened his skull feeling every second of it. After trying to call for help and crouching and struggling for a good hour he lost the use of his arms and just felt the constant pain of the stabs and his head wound, finally, after two hours of slow, struggling with suffocation he finally drowned in his own blood in endless agony, probably welcoming death more than ever.

I just have a hard time "coping" with the fact that some people don't want to help the suffering of people that want to die.

i don't know. aside from the physically incapable, if someone really wanted to die, i think they'd put more thought into how they would terminate their own life.

and if they wanted to die in a manner that is virtually painless, a gun to the head would suffice. you're pretty much non-existent once the trigger is pulled. now if a person misses or doesn't aim correctly, they should have taken preemptive exercises of learning to fire a gun, or least a few test runs so they make sure they don't miss.

Originally posted by Fallen
i don't know. aside from the physically incapable, if someone really wanted to die, i think they'd put more thought into how they would terminate their own life.

and if they wanted to die in a manner that is virtually painless, a gun to the head would suffice. you're pretty much non-existent once the trigger is pulled. now if a person misses or doesn't aim correctly, they should have taken preemptive exercises of learning to fire a gun, or least a few test runs so they make sure they don't miss.

What would the problem be with them getting help from professionals though, in your opinion?

The whole thing is dying with dignity

yes, anyone can go through the enormously stressful event of blowing their own head off, potentially suffering terrible pain, or they can have a professional do it in a way that they and their family can have some degree of closure. That someone must perform the action themselves seems needlessly cruel, especially that we are talking about people who are suffering from terminal disease and not those who are just suicidal.

Even to end the pain, the trauma might be too much to have to actively do it rather than have someone do it in a controlled manner. Its like the dumb prisoners dilemma thing: "Do you kill the little girl who is going to reveal all the secrets under torture?". The pragmatic answer is easy, but could you actually bring yourself to do it?

(lol, I'm sure that is just a parrot of you again bardock)

Originally posted by inimalist
The whole thing is dying with [b]dignity

yes, anyone can go through the enormously stressful event of blowing their own head off, potentially suffering terrible pain, or they can have a professional do it in a way that they and their family can have some degree of closure. That someone must perform the action themselves seems needlessly cruel, especially that we are talking about people who are suffering from terminal disease and not those who are just suicidal.

Even to end the pain, the trauma might be too much to have to actively do it rather than have someone do it in a controlled manner. Its like the dumb prisoners dilemma thing: "Do you kill the little girl who is going to reveal all the secrets under torture?". The pragmatic answer is easy, but could you actually bring yourself to do it?

(lol, I'm sure that is just a parrot of you again bardock) [/B]

Which, you must admit, is pretty much the only argument you should need.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Actually not so much, I hardly addressed the stress issue and that many people are unable to do it themselves, even if they want to, I mostly focussed on "**** YOU, IT'S THEIR DECISION, NOT YOURS, *******".

Which, you must admit, is pretty much the only argument you should need.

No, I totally agree, it is a private contract between 2 individuals. Given people might not be in the most sound of mental states, involvement of the immediate family could be prudent, but ya, essentially it is a personal choice of the paitent and the doctor.

Just, when discussing why a doctor might want to help, as opposed to leaving someone to their own devices, or why someone's personal ability to kill themselves might not be the best determinant of the appropriateness of euthenasia, I figured the stress of actually killing yourself should be included. No matter how "good" you think it will be after wards, it is not something that would be easy to do, especially by someone who is suffering physical pain rather than mental issues (ie: they aren't "suicidal"😉, and likely confined to a hospital bed.

Originally posted by inimalist
No, I totally agree, it is a private contract between 2 individuals. Given people might not be in the most sound of mental states, involvement of the immediate family could be prudent, but ya, essentially it is a personal choice of the paitent and the doctor.

Just, when discussing why a doctor might want to help, as opposed to leaving someone to their own devices, or why someone's personal ability to kill themselves might not be the best determinant of the appropriateness of euthenasia, I figured the stress of actually killing yourself should be included. No matter how "good" you think it will be after wards, it is not something that would be easy to do, especially by someone who is suffering physical pain rather than mental issues (ie: they aren't "suicidal"😉, and likely confined to a hospital bed.

Originally posted by Bardock42
So?

That's a sad story, but a story I was told by my teacher goes like this:

There was a patient who just didn't want to go on living anymore, requesting to be killed. Of course euthanasia was illegal. The doctor simply gave her nothing and said "Dude, euthanasia is illegal". She then left the room. The next morning, to her surprise, the patient lay on the floor dead, it turned out he had stabbed himself 50 times, trying to kill himself but unable to fulfill it, the stab wounds alone must habe been excrutiatin, but when he fell out of his bad from extreme loss of blood he hit the floor head on and opened his skull feeling every second of it. After trying to call for help and crouching and struggling for a good hour he lost the use of his arms and just felt the constant pain of the stabs and his head wound, finally, after two hours of slow, struggling with suffocation he finally drowned in his own blood in endless agony, probably welcoming death more than ever.

I just have a hard time "coping" with the fact that some people don't want to help the suffering of people that want to die.

Come on, do you actually believe you should kill someone regardless of whether or not they're determined to die?

Originally posted by Bardock42
Actually not so much, I hardly addressed the stress issue and that many people are unable to do it themselves, even if they want to, I mostly focussed on "**** YOU, IT'S THEIR DECISION, NOT YOURS, *******".

Which, you must admit, is pretty much the only argument you should need.

Originally posted by Bardock42
What would the problem be with them getting help from professionals though, in your opinion?

that’s a detail i’ve been struggling with.

if someone desperately wanted to stop living and they had the ability to end their life, i find it a bit odd that they wouldn’t have the conviction to commit the act themselves. asking someone else to carry out an act of such magnitude seems a bit unfair. i understand the want of moral support, but should a person who genuinely and strongly wants to die, need it?

then again, i’ve also concluded that it’s a request and the other person could decline. and if the person agrees, both parties have consented.

furthermore, i understand the desire of dying in a dignified manner and in a way that doesn’t make a person experience additional suffering.

but i wasn’t really addressing that. i was just merely remarking that if someone has the intention of committing suicide and truly intends on ending their life, it makes sense that they put serious thought and effort into ensuring that they’re successful or thought of the possible kinks in the method. in the scenario you described, the person seemed to have acted impulsively and recklessly.

Originally posted by lord xyz
lolz dur

Come on, do you actually believe you should kill someone regardless of whether or not they're determined to die?

Not if they aren't determined, but it's not shown by them not being able to kill themselves. That's a wrong conclusion.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Not if they aren't determined, but it's not shown by them not being able to kill themselves. That's a wrong conclusion.

Originally posted by lord xyz
They could be saying kill me even if they don't want to be killed, and I don't understand why someone would want to die, but you know, do they really want to?

The gene pool can always use a bit of scrubbing.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
The gene pool can always use a bit of scrubbing.

Don't you think Mr. and Mrs. Gene would take offense to that?

Originally posted by Fallen

i was just merely remarking that if someone has the intention of committing suicide and truly intends on ending their life, it makes sense that they put serious thought and effort into ensuring that they’re successful or thought of the possible kinks in the method.

You are forgetting that when someone decides to end their life, they are not calm and rational, they are usually in a ****ed up state of mind.

Unable to deal with life anymore, they aren't gonna plan it like a trip to the mall, you know. They are going to act "impulsively and recklessly", looking to get the job done in a quick and pain free manner.

"Planning" is usually done on the fly. I's wager that Kurt Cobain didn't plan on giving a 12 guage head until the last minute. It's no like he looked in his daily planner and saw that he had an appointment with suicide that day.

I support it. Terminally ill people should have the right to humanely end their suffering.

Originally posted by Doom and Gloom
I support it. Terminally ill people should have the right to humanely end their suffering.

Why?

Originally posted by Grand-Moff-Gav
Why?

Because the one life everyone should ultimately have control over is their own, provided they are mentally competent and haven't committed a capital crime thus forfeiting that right.

Originally posted by Doom and Gloom
I support it. Terminally ill people should have the right to humanely end their suffering.

Im for, theres too many people in the world. And if someone is in a situation that they would normally die from, and don´t want to be kept alive then they should be allowed to die.

gvt gets to control how you live

gvt gets to control how you die

Originally posted by inimalist
gvt gets to control how you live

gvt gets to control how you die