why isnt carnage the best villain?!

ok guys i only got to get on this spiderman-venom-carnage craze a few days ago when i played maximum carnage, i know its an old game but interesting, too challenging i couldnt complete it. so i was wondering why so many people think that venom is the best villian? i think carnage is the strongest ever. being the offspring of venom, carnage has added abilities like turning his fist into weapons, he has all attributes that venom has like agility, speed, flexibility. no doubt venom is very strong but carnage is actually faster than venom since venom is more massive and carnage is more ruthless in hand to hand combating. it is clearly stated in many sites that carnage is stronger than venom and spiderman thats why in maximum carnage, venom has to team up with spiderman to defeat carnage because they cant do it on their own. also, the being that carnage has possessed is cletus kasady, a sick mental patient. i cant find any ways that carnage is weaker than spiderman and venom. carnage anticipates spiderman and venom's moves. like i said, carnage has all of venom's attributes, he is not weakened by intense sound wherelse venom is, and can dampen spiderman's spider sense. can someone tell me why people prefer venom in spiderman 3 movie instead of carnage?

Venom comes before Carnage, as he is the origin of Carnage. Also, Venom's history is more personally intertwined with Spidey's history, and it's a Spiderman movie, in an excellent movie series that concentrates, and rightly so, on Peter's personal evolution, not his physical feats. Further, Carnage is dark, very dark, and movie Peter's not there yet- not set in his values yet, sufficiently to face that kind of darkness and assume personal responsibility for confronting it. That's a Mother Teresa level of selflessness, which I think comics Peter has achieved at various points. Movie Peter is still not in that neighborhood of friendly Spiderman-ness.

Carnage = ultimate fanboy fantasy.

Carnage is great, but when people think he's something greater than the likes of Venom, they are just kidding themselves.

Fever Red makes a good point. Venom came 1st and we got to see how the whole symbiote saga happen. Carnage is a great villain but he's just too violent than Venom.

Originally posted by Red Superfly
Carnage = ultimate fanboy fantasy.

Carnage is great, but when people think he's something greater than the likes of Venom, they are just kidding themselves.

A good question to ask here would be, what exactly is it that makes Venom so much *better* than Carnage?

His symbiote is not more powerful - in fact, it has more vulnerabilities.

Venom is not any smarter than Kasady - I'd say their IQ levels are about equal. It's not like Venom is some Level 9 intelligence or something.

He's not as strong as Carnage.

The only reason we should see him forst is because as others have remarked, he actually DID come first; without Venom there can be no Carnage. As far as his being somehow "better," no.

I'm kinda tired of hearing about how Carnage is "violent" so we shouldn't see him. What Spidey villain is NOT violent?! They're all violent!

I never said Venom was better.

I said that Carnage isn't greater than Venom. Meaning I consider them about equal.

Nothing wrong with Carnage, it's just that Venom came first.

Well, obviously, it's a matter of taste. I thought we had all agreed to disagree here, people. I know for a fact that Superfly has no love affair with Venom, so don't read too much into what he's saying--he isn't hostile or anything.

I encourage all of you Carnage fans out there to dote and drone about your boy Kasady-- so, I hope you would reciprocate and allow me to go on and on about why I love Brock and his "other" so much...

Without all the negativity, that is...

No negativity- and I enjoy Venom, there's a BIG place for him in my heart. He's NOT better than Carnage, nor worse.
__He IS better for the movie series, at this point. The movies are about Peter's process of fully becoming his inner hero, right?
__Peter has more basis/impetus to engage Venom, and Venom more basis/impetus to engage him. They're an issue for one another even in civilian life before the whole super-powered conflict begins. Eddie, as an extremist, an obsessive, someone going a bit postal from inner and outer stress, is a bit of human darkness that is deeper-to-the-bone than Ock and GG, IMO. Why? Because he was less exceptional than either, more representative of your every man. Therefore, he has wider implications. How many people have GG's powerlust, or Doc Ock's megalomania? How many more have Eddie's feelings of disenfranchisement and punitive wrath?
__Facing Venom takes Peter one step deeper into the dark.
__Drop Carnage in first, killing hundreds, and it's awfully abrupt. Peter could, at this point, be fairly expected to throw up his hands and say, this is SO far beyond my ability and is asking too much. Call in the Guard, I'm home to my wife.

ahh ic.. thanks fever red

Originally posted by diamondust
ok guys i only got to get on this spiderman-venom-carnage craze a few days ago when i played maximum carnage, i know its an old game but interesting, too challenging i couldnt complete it. so i was wondering why so many people think that venom is the best villian? i think carnage is the strongest ever. being the offspring of venom, carnage has added abilities like turning his fist into weapons, he has all attributes that venom has like agility, speed, flexibility. no doubt venom is very strong but carnage is actually faster than venom since venom is more massive and carnage is more ruthless in hand to hand combating. it is clearly stated in many sites that carnage is stronger than venom and spiderman thats why in maximum carnage, venom has to team up with spiderman to defeat carnage because they cant do it on their own. also, the being that carnage has possessed is cletus kasady, a sick mental patient. i cant find any ways that carnage is weaker than spiderman and venom. carnage anticipates spiderman and venom's moves. like i said, carnage has all of venom's attributes, he is not weakened by intense sound wherelse venom is, and can dampen spiderman's spider sense. can someone tell me why people prefer venom in spiderman 3 movie instead of carnage?

Originally posted by Symbiotica
A good question to ask here would be, what exactly is it that makes Venom so much *better* than Carnage?

His symbiote is not more powerful - in fact, it has more vulnerabilities.

Venom is not any smarter than Kasady - I'd say their IQ levels are about equal. It's not like Venom is some Level 9 intelligence or something.

He's not as strong as Carnage.

The only reason we should see him forst is because as others have remarked, he actually DID come first; without Venom there can be no Carnage. As far as his being somehow "better," no.

I'm kinda tired of hearing about how Carnage is "violent" so we shouldn't see him. What Spidey villain is NOT violent?! They're all violent!

Somebody's a jealous, sexually repressed li'l fellow- scrambled up, I'd say.
__And it isn't Carnage! Hahaheh.

Are you joking? Carnage might have more raw power then Venom, and be more dangerous then most of Spideys "normal" villains because of his lunacy... but in terms of "best" he falls well short.

In Venoms case, (orginally anyways), the guy was nothing but a bent-on-revenge machine who would stop at nothing to get even with Spiderman...(though I've long thought Brock should have THANKED Spidey for not wanting the costume himself...but that's another story...) His appearances early on meant that you were in for a treat storywise... there was always suspense in his character and mood that he set when interacting with Spidey; you knew that Spidey was afraid of him.

Are we supposed to get all worked up because the loser shows up in a book every now and then and goes on a mass killing spree killing tons of "nobodys" for no reason? Until the guy kills some kind of superhero he's just a lame Venom rip-off.

I've also always thought that the way the Marvel Universe handled Carnage was very un-realistic... I mean, the guy commits mass murder and DOESN'T get some kind of death sentence and/or his symbiote killed for it? Venom had the jury track him down... how come Carnage doesn't have some kind of renegade force out for his sorry ass?

Seriously... if I was writing I'd have the government contact Reed Richards or develop their own kind of sonic ray gun to kill symbiotes... especially if it meant that as long as he was around there could be countless lives in danger. I've never understood folks' fascination with Carnage...just put the damn gun to the losers head and lets be done with him already.

lolol u cant understand y people like carnage. lmao put the sonic gun at his face and he is done. come on man, do u hv the ability to put it infront of him? i think people like carnage for the same reason as i do. not because i am a bad guy but because i aint bad, never been bad, wish so much to be bad. like how much the fken world did to me and i cant do a shit back. carnage can do what he likes and even spiderman needs venom help to take carnage down. sometimes i wish i could be a lunatic, kill those fken people who did me wrong and those people cant do a shit back at me and carnage is fken cool, how much power he has in his hands. he can do what he wants.

Maybe... but in that regard he is very 1 dimensional as a character. There is nothing "behind" how he acts... he just mindlessly slaughters people.

Venom killed people because he was after Spidey and they got in his way, Carnage killed people because the writers thought it'd be cool to make an "overpowered" and "unethical" version of Venom.

Do people piss me off in real life? Sure, all the time. Do I sometimes have homicidal thoughts about a choice few of them... without a doubt... I'm human after all.

When evaluating a villain, especially in terms of being the "best", you have to take both what drives them AND how they are handled story wise. Just giving someone powers and letting them kill scores and scores of nobody's doesn't make them great, imo.

I think villains like the Vulture, Hobgoblin, ... hell even Mysterio are 10x better then Carnage. They ALWAYS have some kinds of ulterior motives behind what they are doing, and aren't just depicted as indiscrimant losers out to "ace lots of folks 4 the fun of it!!!1".

If Marvel took the Carnage symbiote away from Cassady and gave it to someone else I don't think many people would complain. I know that I wouldn't.

Bah I forgot to address the "sonic gun in his face" part of your response...

Carnage has been captured multiple times in the books, remember. He was defeated by Venom and Spidey in his first appearance... after which the writers felt that he was all cheesy and sh*t enough in those first 3 issues he was in to feature him as the head of a Masters of Evil super-villain type group with Shriek and the rest of the B list villains of spidey at that time.

If I were Spiderman I would have very little problem ending the Carnage symbiotes life if it meant I could ensure peoples' well being in the long run. As I recall the Carnage symbiotes' mass discorporated at the end of Amazing 363... so Spidey assumed that it had died then and there. If he had known it would reform and make Cassady carnage again I've got a hunch he would have 1. either killed Cassady himself 2. let Venom kill him .

I've long wondered what would have happened if the Carnage symbiote had inhereted all it's parents' memories along with it's powers? Meaning what if Carnage had known Spidey's secret identity thanks to the symbiote?

Once Carnage killed one of Spideys relatives he himself would have been put out of his lame ass misery thanks to Parker methinks.

.... Anyone thinking sonic guns bother Carnage in the least little bit these days obviously has not read Maximum Carnage. 😈

eggs: "bullshit, he is stronger, he is smart, he came first,and he can whip carnages ass. and carnage uses axes and knifes now don't tell me he isn't more violent. that is why he is better."

Who on earth said Carnage wasn't more violent....? He's WAY more violent! This is what makes him fun! [not that Venom isn't fun, he's a lot of fun, just making a point.] Carny has a kill-count numbering in the thousands now, does he not? Rhetorical question only, since obviously Maximum Carnage got past you unread.

Also, as for Venom "whipping Carnage's ass" please post the issue number and the book this happens in. Methinks you cannot, because Venom cannot take Carnage alone. Nor can Spidey.

orange: "Maybe... but in that regard he is very 1 dimensional as a character. There is nothing "behind" how he acts... he just mindlessly slaughters people."

This statement just lets serious Carnage-fans know you have not read all that much about him 😈

Just to make this very plain: I am in no way dissing Venom, or desiring to post hostile sentiments about him - I like Venom a lot. But this kind of thing, it just gets on my nerves: people posting this kind of thing when they know nothing whatsoever about the character. Carnage laughs at sonic guns, and he pretty much laughs at both Spidey and Venom too. Anyone desirous of claiming otherwise, please be prepared to post the book and issue-numbers proving your point; and I will do some checking because I own almost all Carnage appearances, & don't mind research.

[See, you have to stamp these fires out before they get too big.]

... In fact, here's pictoral proof of my sonic-gun point: nyahnyahNYAH 😈

Y'know, alot of people don't know this, but I actually like Venom better than Carnage.
Nemo, all we got was a red X. But, if what you said is true, than I am truly ashamed of myself as a Carnage fan, because I completely forgot that Sonic rays don't work on him! Gotta reread Maximum Carnage, I suppose.
Now, as for who is better, it's arguable. I can see why some people find Carnage to be one-dimensional. Of course, stories like "Mind Bomb" add some dimension to the character. I find both he and Venom to be very interesting. I think the reason he's not Spidey's top villain is because they have no personal attachment. Look at the Green Goblin. He and Spidey truly hate each other on a personal level and have dragged each others' families into their feud. Doc Ock and Spidey respect each other on an intellectual level. Spidey was indirectly responsible for screwing up Venom's personal life, not to mention the fact that his family has been personally threatened and frightened by Venom. Carnage doesn't really have any attachment to Peter. Not even mutual respect or hatred. Truth be told, I think Carnage is pretty indifferent to Spider-Man's existence in general. This is not to say that he's not a good villain. He's just not "The Bad Guy". Personally, I'd love to see Norman Osborn step down and have someone else take his place. Maybe Venom, or Electro, another villain who, like Carnage, really hasn't gotten his due.