why isnt carnage the best villain?!

Started by orangepoindexte3 pages

It isn't the offsprings' fault that they weren't given a damn chance at developing beyond what they did. In my opinion, they developed MORE character in their very few appearances, (mostly in Seperation Anxiety) then Carnage ever has TOTAL. At least they had reasons behind what they did and how they acted.

Carl and Leslie, (the brown and female purple symbiote respectively) had very interesting dialogue in that series... the writer hinted that Leslie was some kind of "peace corps" type-woman whom chose to link with the alien in order to "help people"... and when she found out about the Life Foundations true motives for her linking with the creature, that, (along with the constant and ever present struggle she was in to maintain control over her costume), was made much more horrible for her to bear.

I think that if they had made the number 2 or 3 instead of 5 like they did... the offspring symbiotes would have more fans then detractors.

__True, Orange- 2 or 3 would have been the best move. And I did like Leslie far more than Donna. I would have kept Leslie, of the two. However, the possible shizophrenia of Donna's charactor COULD drive stories in interesting directions, especially as she seemed motivated to recapture her sanity.
NOW, goggle at this: MORE rah-rah blather by a Carnage cheer-leader.
__In Kasady's first app, they laid out a LOT of charactor, if you ask me...and there has been some expansion.
__The way he bossed Red was interesting- one of the best things about symbiotes is this- they put the interpersonal in the center of the charactor portrayal, right out of the gate. It seemed like Kasady LOVED talking big to Red- you could hear the need, the dependance- you could see it growing. It looked like raw co-dependance taking shape.
__He's so undermotivated and conscious of it- but untroubled by it- I loved the fact that he seized on this scheme to promote Chaos by killing JJ- but decided to make a sandwich first and announced that decision with equal self-importance. It's the banality- the fact that he reflects our own self-absorption and flippancy. The I'll-give-a-damn-later factor.
__He was never really comedy, however- because it was all too true to life. He was the first villain to do for villains (for me), what Spidey did for heroes- give me a sense that, yeh, that's probably a pretty common-denominator way to behave/feel, pretty down-to-earth, not too elevated or specialized. He's the everyman villain.
__I don't really see him as a Chaos archetype. He's the appetite, he's the core of the human experience, something we can mis-employ to hurt others, or draw upon to protect our own interests when our autonomy is endangered. He accomplishes both in his best apps- where you see that he's not the only aggressor in the ongoing battle between himself and society.
__Here’s something I said once before, referring to the fates of his “wicked” victims, the amoral protagonists to whom Kasady plays amoral antagonist:
__Deserve, yes- they earn it, just as Kasady does. They all worship power/control and fear being subject to others; Kasady's just got the most goods to back his game. And I admire the goods, so that's why I like him. He lives in such a constant struggle and perseveres. Life for him is War. Even when he kills randomly; its because he considers society his enemy, and all civvy-types are complicit in society.
__That's where he won't win; but against other monsters he can, and does. And it's pleasant, because it demonstrates, live like that, die like that. It's justice. I don't want the same for Kasady because he is the ultimate expression of the biggest fish scenario; there HAS to be one, and that's the reason not to live like a fish, preying on others: Kasady's gonna get you...
Not because Spiderman will put you in jail.
Because Kasady will carve the blood out of you.

Originally posted by fever red
__True, Orange- 2 or 3 would have been the best move. And I did like Leslie far more than Donna. I would have kept Leslie, of the two. However, the possible shizophrenia of Donna's charactor COULD drive stories in interesting directions, especially as she seemed motivated to recapture her sanity.
NOW, goggle at this: MORE rah-rah blather by a Carnage cheer-leader.
__In Kasady's first app, they laid out a LOT of charactor, if you ask me...and there has been some expansion.
__The way he bossed Red was interesting- one of the best things about symbiotes is this- they put the interpersonal in the center of the charactor portrayal, right out of the gate. It seemed like Kasady LOVED talking big to Red- you could hear the need, the dependance- you could see it growing. It looked like raw co-dependance taking shape.
__He's so undermotivated and conscious of it- but untroubled by it- I loved the fact that he seized on this scheme to promote Chaos by killing JJ- but decided to make a sandwich first and announced that decision with equal self-importance. It's the banality- the fact that he reflects our own self-absorption and flippancy. The I'll-give-a-damn-later factor.
__He was never really comedy, however- because it was all too true to life. He was the first villain to do for villains (for me), what Spidey did for heroes- give me a sense that, yeh, that's probably a pretty common-denominator way to behave/feel, pretty down-to-earth, not too elevated or specialized. He's the everyman villain.
__I don't really see him as a Chaos archetype. He's the appetite, he's the core of the human experience, something we can mis-employ to hurt others, or draw upon to protect our own interests when our autonomy is endangered. He accomplishes both in his best apps- where you see that he's not the only aggressor in the ongoing battle between himself and society.
__Here’s something I said once before, referring to the fates of his “wicked” victims, the amoral protagonists to whom Kasady plays amoral antagonist:
__Deserve, yes- they earn it, just as Kasady does. They all worship power/control and fear being subject to others; Kasady's just got the most goods to back his game. And I admire the goods, so that's why I like him. He lives in such a constant struggle and perseveres. Life for him is War. Even when he kills randomly; its because he considers society his enemy, and all civvy-types are complicit in society.
__That's where he won't win; but against other monsters he can, and does. And it's pleasant, because it demonstrates, live like that, die like that. It's justice. I don't want the same for Kasady because he is the ultimate expression of the biggest fish scenario; there HAS to be one, and that's the reason not to live like a fish, preying on others: Kasady's gonna get you...
Not because Spiderman will put you in jail.
Because Kasady will carve the blood out of you.

And that is why Carnage IS the best Spider-man villain. Well done FR.

Where've you been? Take off your shirt and get your ruling @ss into the Fortress...BTW, haven't I waited long enough for more of your fic- the future one- or something else? If you've got any new role-play archived, please link us again in the Office.

It just occurred to me...I'm indirectly responsible for the no shirt rule...cool.

No, I hold you directly responsible!

Hm...well, I don't wanna see a bunch of guys running around with no shirt...but if Fever's happy, I'm happy.
Little do you all know that Fever and I are consolidating our power. Soon we will rule the KMC forums, and after that, the world!
Hm...Lord Blaque and Lady Red...that's got a very nice ring to it.

Wow you guys are taking over, where do i sign up at? I want to help take over.

Re: why isnt carnage the best villain?!

Originally posted by diamondust
ok guys i only got to get on this spiderman-venom-carnage craze a few days ago when i played maximum carnage, i know its an old game but interesting, too challenging i couldnt complete it. so i was wondering why so many people think that venom is the best villian? i think carnage is the strongest ever. being the offspring of venom, carnage has added abilities like turning his fist into weapons, he has all attributes that venom has like agility, speed, flexibility. no doubt venom is very strong but carnage is actually faster than venom since venom is more massive and carnage is more ruthless in hand to hand combating. it is clearly stated in many sites that carnage is stronger than venom and spiderman thats why in maximum carnage, venom has to team up with spiderman to defeat carnage because they cant do it on their own. also, the being that carnage has possessed is cletus kasady, a sick mental patient. i cant find any ways that carnage is weaker than spiderman and venom. carnage anticipates spiderman and venom's moves. like i said, carnage has all of venom's attributes, he is not weakened by intense sound wherelse venom is, and can dampen spiderman's spider sense. can someone tell me why people prefer venom in spiderman 3 movie instead of carnage?

Carnage's weakness isn't his physical strength or his speed....it's his weakness of character. He's a coward, when the going gets truly tough...Carnage gets running.

He can kill and do wanton slaughter to innocents with not a care in the world, but when he is challenged and the challenger proves to be a match for Carnage...then Carnage weakens up. He'd rather turn tail than take an ass whooping.

Venom is a solid character. His hatred for Spiderman is genuine whereas Carnage just hates Spiderman because he gets in the way. Venom is a better developed character with more of a back plot that Carnage...

Aside from that, there is a chronological order of events that needs to take place to accurately depict what happened in the comics....and thus far they have stuck with the comics with Green Goblin being the 1st villain and Doc Ock being the 2nd villain...even with the unmasking.

*Spiderman needs to get the symbiote
*Spiderman needs to reject the bonding of the symbiote
*Spiderman needs to get rid of the Symbiote
*Eddie Brock needs to pick up the symbiote to become Venom
*Venom and Spidey need to fight and Spidey needs to win to send Venom to jail
*Eddie needs to escape jail and leave a spawn of the symbiote in Cletus Kasady's cell making him Carnage

And in all the Venom hype i've heard...I have yet but to hear one plausible scenario involving Venom in the 3rd plot without completely and utterly degrading from the first 2 movies.

That is a good point. I like the way you put a lot of thought into that. 🙂