God or No God?

Originally posted by Evil Dead
but what you speak of is not science.........

a hypothesis is nothing more than an idea.........nobody claims that hypotheses are fact. Everything that has been proven to be scientific fact, is fact. The grass is green because of it's chlorophyl......today, tomorrow, for all time. If one day the grass is not green........one merely needs to examine it to see that it no longer has chlorophyl. Then it will be a scientific fact that grass no longer contains chlorophyl and is not necissarily green any longer.

I'm sorry Smiley but you do rather dumb up the concept. I know you know what you're talking about.......but your simple way of putting things into term is misleading to those like Chibi Boy.

e.g.

you say science says the sun rises in the west. Not true. Science states that at this very moment in time.......the earth's orbit around the sun being what it is.......the earth's rotation being what it is.......the tilt of the earth on it's axis being what it is.........the sun rises in the west. That is fact. Tomorrow it may be different........but only because one or more of the determining variables listed above have changed. No man of science has ever stated that if the Earth had a different orbit, rotation or tilt that the sun would still rise in the west and set in the east.

science is ever changing........but not scientific facts. Science changes as variables change or unknown variables become known. Science does not predict the future, what will happen tomorrow if variables change. It merely states the variables given at this moment will produce the same affects at this very moment.

Then it would be impossible to take something like evolution as scientific fact.It would still be in it's hypothisis stage then wouldn't it?

Originally posted by Atlantis001
Thats what I think too. We cannot just expect all to be proved to us, so we can just sit, and wait. There are things which need to be understand individualy, that cannot be simply proven because we wouldn´t understand the proof. Is not only science that has proofs, science proofs must be understood too, ants wouldn´t understand a scientific proof if you show one to them. If ants could argue, and think probably they would try to find a way to justify their rejection of the scientific proof, just as we reject other kinds of proofs.

We must start thinking in different ways, and those ways are not less valid than any way we usually use. And it is possible to understand that, is not just a matter of opinion.

I think someone asking them to have God proven to them is in some ways absurd yet understandable.Everyone wants to think that life has some meaning (even if they don't wan't to admit it).If someone ask me to prove God exisist I can do this rather easily.The problem is most people think in strictly Christian or gospel terms of God that have become all too stereotyped.To me God isn't a human person that sits high on a throne.God is energy (much like the tao).It can't be exhausted nor deystroyed.It's everywhere.That fact that i'm aware i'm typing this makes me open to the fact this is a moment in God.Now I can't prove theirs a big man with a white beard ready to judge us.But then again I wouldn't try because that's not God to me.Now what everyone has to decide is what God is to them.Then ask the question to themselves😛rove to me God exisist.

Originally posted by Legend Of Chibi
Proof of god has never been proven in a laborotory, but it is always proven when you play on a game, the people in the game don't know you're there but you are. There is a game called 'Black & White' where you be a god and you look after the people on an island, they don't believe in you until you commit miracles infront of them, they don't know you exist but you do.

what kind of crock of $hit is that?

a game is not something where you get to be god, the characters in games do not have intelligence, and therefore arent aware of a damn thing.

Originally posted by Evil Dead
um.......the people who don't believe in god are not the one's making incredible claims. Incredible statements require incredible research yeilding incredible evidence. The burden of proof falls on those making such statements. None has ever been given........incredible, mediocre or minimal.

Most people don't say, "there is no god"......I know I don't.......most say, "I don't believe there is a god". They are not making incredible statements. Those religious nutjobs are the ones who say, "there is a god!"...........which means they are making incredible statements and therefore required to back them up with incredible evidence.

lol, ya, thats great i love it.

Originally posted by Atlantis001
Rethorical arguments again... I mean that when some structure, order is observed, people often think that some intelligence was behind it. Its difficult to believe that those structures happened ramdomly. But there is structures, and order in nature too, but why not even consider the theory that some intelligence was behind it. If the universe has no intelligence guiding it, it is very reasonable to argue that extremely complex and well-ordered systems like organisms for example, wouldn´t exist, they are very complex, it could be that some intelligence is behind them. Is that too difficult to understand !?

everything has intelligence, energy has intelligence, every cell in your body has intelligence.
EX: people who have had organ transplants have helped solve crimes that the donar witnessed to or comitted. the ogan retained the memories of the donar and comunicated with the brain of the person who recieved it.

Originally posted by debbiejo
The more we learn about some science fields....the more we learn about how all the processes work.....But it might be many many, even one hundred years before we get more answers.....For now there are only theories.....And many might be surprised to find that it isn't a god, but something completely different.....

if you mean hypothesis than say hypothesis, a theory has been tested and has evidence to support it, a theory is closer to fact.

Originally posted by Imlistening
what kind of crock of $hit is that?

a game is not something where you get to be god, the characters in games do not have intelligence, and therefore arent aware of a damn thing.

srry i posted this without thinking that there was a game called black and white in which your god, if there is id like to know who created it out of curiosity, cause thats a pretty lame idea for a game.

well if you did mean it the way i thought you did in my first post, than i stand by what i said.

Originally posted by Imlistening
if you mean hypothesis than say hypothesis, a theory has been tested and has evidence to support it, a theory is closer to fact.

I mean theories....because some science fields have proven some facts though not all conclusive...and yes there are some hypothesis also.....AND, I'm not talking about god being some kind of person, or being like thing.....Just some kind of intelligence that inter reacts with things on some level.

Then it would be impossible to take something like evolution as scientific fact.It would still be in it's hypothisis stage then wouldn't it?

correct. It is still mereyly hypothesis.......which is why it is called the THEORY of evolution. There is much evidence to support it but all is circumstancial as humans have not been civilized long enough to observe and record data from species evolving from others. It's pretty much just a waiting game............wait around a few hundred or thousand years until we can observe the changes first hand to confirm it.

ps. thanks to all for not calling me out on my brain fart yesterday. I re-read my post and I stated that the sun rose in the west and set in the east........that's what happens when your fingers are working faster than your brain...............

Originally posted by Evil Dead
correct. It is still mereyly hypothesis.......which is why it is called the THEORY of evolution. There is much evidence to support it but all is circumstancial as humans have not been civilized long enough to observe and record data from species evolving from others. It's pretty much just a waiting game............wait around a few hundred or thousand years until we can observe the changes first hand to confirm it.

One should also consider the tremendous amount of evidence required for a theory to be confirmed as fact. After all, Relativity is only a theory as well, but no one would question whether or not gravity exists.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
How do you conclude that it is highly improbable for complexity and order to occur without intelligence, when they already do so now?

I already answered that : Its more probable to have order if someone ordered intentionally.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
...when they already do so now?

Order occurs, but not necessarily without intelligence. You just assumed that order occurs without an intelligence.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE

Houses and paintings of houses, as in your previous example, do not require intelligent agents to exist? By all means, explain how a house or a painting of a house can form solely by natural laws.

Like I said in the example... "throwing paint randomly expecting a pattern of a house to be created."

Originally posted by Imlistening
I just want some evidence that god exists.
Is there even any?
I just cant see my self relying on a feeling that im supposed to get by asking god in prayer or even by just sitting in church. feelings dont prove a damn thing.

You can't "Prove" it it is a matter of faith.

Originally posted by Atlantis001
I already answered that : Its more probable to have order if someone ordered intentionally.

Complexity and order already occur without intelligence, therefore the probability of complexity and order occuring without intelligence is one hundred percent.

Originally posted by Atlantis001
Order occurs, but not necessarily without intelligence. You just assumed that order occurs without an intelligence.

By all means, prove:

[list=1][*]An intelligence exists.

[*]This intelligence is responsible for complexity and order.[/list]

Originally posted by Atlantis001
Like I said in the example... "throwing paint randomly expecting a pattern of a house to be created."

This begs the question, "Who is throwing the paint randomly, expecting a pattern of a house to be created?" An intelligent agent, that is who.

This fails to describe how a house or a painting of a house can form solely by natural laws.

why do people say stupid things such as "does GOD really exists"of course he does 😠 😠 💃 😈 🙄 😮 🤪 🤨

why do people say stupid things such as "does GOD really exists"of course he does

Proof...it's the most relative concept in existence. I'd say the proof is in the pudding, you either like it and make it part of you, or you don't. Just the same, the concept of a god is as relative, there is no universally accepted definition of a god, so we never know if we are talking about the same thing. One thing is sure though, nobody will ever be able to know what is at work at the absolute realm of infinity...what is behind all of existence...what are we really? 'Are' 'we' at all?

I'd say the proof is in the pudding

If you don't eat yer meat, you can't have any pudding.
How can you have any pudding if you don't eat yer meat?
You! Yes, you behind the bikesheds, stand still laddy - Pink Floyd

😂 😆

Originally posted by Evil Dead
ps. thanks to all for not calling me out on my brain fart yesterday. I re-read my post and I stated that the sun rose in the west and set in the east........that's what happens when your fingers are working faster than your brain...............

You owe us one now...

One should also consider the tremendous amount of evidence required for a theory to be confirmed as fact. After all, Relativity is only a theory as well, but no one would question whether or not gravity exists

true.......but gravity has never been clearly defined. We know massive objects cause a ripple in space......pulling smaller objects toward it.......Einstein proved this. Gravity is just the term we choose to use to describe this occurance.............the complexities of this force, we still do not understand.