God or No God?

Started by Mišt96 pages
Originally posted by Punkyhermy
I'm going to refrain from going into specifics which will all the more lead this thread down the road to messy-ness.

(Should have posted in the Religion forum then) Its bound to go down that path anyway regardless of topic in here.

Originally posted by Punkyhermy
Evidence need not be in the form of some blatant neon sign. That we exist, is proof enough. That our population thrives on this spherical world suspended in the midst of apparent dark nothingness is proof enough. That the sun shines aptly warm and bright is proof enough. That these skin and bones that are us are cause of our inevitable demise is proof enough. That this phenomenon called life is thrust upon us is proof enough.

Whatever limited abilty of sense I have, tells me that all this...is too orgianzied to be some random freak accident, 'just because.' Meager science experiements long ago defied the idea that nothing just is.

That's proof enough to evoke a sense of faith in me, my friend. 🙂

Fair enough, Im not challenging you or anything, Im just asking questions....to me personally, that is just too far fetched to place faith in...😬

But all that ^ doesnt just make everyone believe in God. How do you know that a God even made all that happen? What happens when the Sun burns out and explodes and all life ceases to exist? If you were given solid, factual scientific proof that God did in fact not create all that, would you still believe?

I believe in God but Im not a ver religious person. Im more spiritual.

Nope!
and evened it out.

Originally posted by Mišt
(Should have posted in the Religion forum then) Its bound to go down that path anyway regardless of topic in here.

*nods*
Probably..but its the inevitable messyness that occurs from such topics that I wanted to avoid.

Fair enough, Im not challenging you or anything, Im just asking questions....to me personally, that is just too far fetched to place faith in...😬

But all that ^ doesnt just make everyone believe in God. How do you know that a God even made all that happen? What happens when the Sun burns out and explodes and all life ceases to exist? If you were given solid, factual scientific proof that God did in fact not create all that, would you still believe?

lol. Yes of course. 🙂

But here's the thing with 'faith', it is the state of mind where someone hold belief without concrete 'evidence'. You either have faith, or you don't. There's no shades of gray here I'd think...so this sketchy-ness that bothers people is very well part of the faith that others don't hesitate to accept.

And...the entire notion of 'scientific proof', is way too overrated if you ask me. We have been given...5 senses and then left on this vast expanse of apparent nothingness that is this universe. So we make use of them and explore.Our ability to see and observe and study is limited. This place is bombarded with things that are beyond our reach both literally and figuratively. We are so limited as to not even be able to look inside the skull by a roll of our eyes, lol. Or find a just and true cure for the common cold. How the heck can we possibly grasp the vastness that encompases this phenomenon that is this universe or seek to answer the fundamental questions?

So this 'lack of scientific proof' bit, doesn't personally irk me too much.😉

Yes. And now we're winning. barker

Originally posted by Punkyhermy
*nods*
Probably..but its the inevitable messyness that occurs from such topics that I wanted to avoid.

There will always be a messyness in this topic, you cant avoid it. A non believer will always come along and challenge or question the topic out of either making fun of, gaining knowledge, or curiosity.

It was just a hypothetical question anyway, what if the Bible said that God was just an imaginative figure that has a particular meaning for each individual? I'd be more inclined to believe that, than having God as some uber being in command of everything.

Another side question.....are you scared of God?

Free will would be the key word there I'd suppose...

hmm..and yes. I'd have reason to fear Him...

Originally posted by Punkyhermy
*nods*
Probably..but its the inevitable messyness that occurs from such topics that I wanted to avoid.

lol. Yes of course. 🙂

But here's the thing with 'faith', it is the state of mind where someone hold belief without concrete 'evidence'. You either have faith, or you don't. There's no shades of gray here I'd think...so this sketchy-ness that bothers people is very well part of the faith that others don't hesitate to accept.

And...the entire notion of 'scientific proof', is way too overrated if you ask me. We have been given...5 senses and then left on this vast expanse of apparent nothingness that is this universe. So we make use of them and explore.Our ability to see and observe and study is limited. This place is bombarded with things that are beyond our reach both literally and figuratively. We are so limited as to not even be able to look inside the skull by a roll of our eyes, lol. Or find a just and true cure for the common cold. How the heck can we possibly grasp the vastness that encompases this phenomenon that is this universe or seek to answer the fundamental questions?

So this 'lack of scientific proof' bit, doesn't personally irk me too much.😉

I can't believe things on faith.

The thing with science, which is something that faith and religion don't have, is that it's ever-changing. You say there are no shades of grey. But reality is that the entire world exists in shades of grey. You can be a religious scientist. The two are not exclusive. People can believe just certain things they are taught in religion.

Science is always trying to find new answers to things, to try and grasp and understand the things that we don't right now. If someone has an idea about something and research finds it to be wrong, oh well, try again. Religion is very anti-change though. We still have people today that think that the earth was made in 7 days and is only 6,000 years old, despite incontrivertable evidence to the contrary, simply because the bible said so. Just because something is outside our grasp and abilities now, does not mean it always will be. And mankind certainly doesn't progress because of religion.

And as for "people have believed in god since the beginning of mankind" -- not true. For one, early man was too busy trying to not be eaten to worry about such silly and petty things. For another, yes, civilizations HAVE had and worshipped gods....but certainly not the Christian one, who is a mere baby compared to other religions, both those that still exist and those who've long died out. So what makes the Christian god the true one?

Originally posted by Punkyhermy
Free will would be the key word there I'd suppose...

hmm..and yes. I'd have reason to fear Him...

Where? I didnt follow that part..

Ok....so why would you want, or choose to live in fear? If you are living with this shadow of fear over your head for your whole life, then you aren't living how you were meant to.

Originally posted by Lana
For one, early man was too busy trying to not be eaten to worry about such silly and petty things.

You have to remember Lana, if we were to believe the Bible, early man was just as we are today and there were never dinosaurs! firefirefireph

Originally posted by Mišt
Where? I didnt follow that part..

Ok....so why would you want, or choose to live in fear? If you are living with this shadow of fear over your head for your whole life, then you aren't living how you were meant to.

I would say that something that more or less requires fear from his or her followers does not deserve to be worshipped...

Originally posted by LanceWindu
You have to remember Lana, if we were to believe the Bible, early man was just as we are today and there were never dinosaurs! firefirefireph

Ahh yes, and we all descended from two people, and of course we all live in sin and are horrible people!

Originally posted by Lana
And as for "people have believed in god since the beginning of mankind" -- not true. For one, early man was too busy trying to not be eaten to worry about such silly and petty things. For another, yes, civilizations HAVE had and worshipped gods....but certainly not the Christian one, who is a mere baby compared to other religions, both those that still exist and those who've long died out. So what makes the Christian god the true one?

Yeah I dont get that....the Aztecs, Egyptians, Greeks etc...all had their own gods long before the Bible was even written, and long before Jesus arrived, and all of a sudden, just because a book says so, all their gods and religions are wrong and there is only one true God. Which brings me back to this qustion:

Originally posted by Mišt
On a side note, what makes your religion any different from any cult?

Because from my pov, it seems like a cult to me. Selfishly trying to bring out their religion as the one true religion that everyone should follow or else burn in hell? Im sure the real God wouldnt want that, would it?

Originally posted by LanceWindu
You have to remember Lana, if we were to believe the Bible, early man was just as we are today and there were never dinosaurs! firefirefireph

Dinosaur bones were placed by the devil to mislead usfirefirefireph

Originally posted by Lana
I would say that something that more or less requires fear from his or her followers does not deserve to be worshipped...

Ahh yes, and we all descended from two people, and of course we all live in sin and are horrible people!

We're all incestuous bastards. shnone

Originally posted by LanceWindu
We're all incestuous bastards. shnone

Oh well. Wanna have sex anyway?

Oh, wait, I forgot. Sex outside of marriage and without the intent to have a child is a sin. Damn.

Guess that rules out me going and having sex with another chick as well.

Animals do it all the time, so why cant we?disgust

Originally posted by Lana
Oh, wait, I forgot. Sex outside of marriage and without the intent to have a child is a sin. Damn..

Making condoms evil!shock

Great, so we can burn in hell for using a condom, or contract some STD and go to heaven.....God likes to torment us with these Catch 22s doesnt he/she/it?disgust

Originally posted by Lana
Oh well. Wanna have sex anyway?

Oh, wait, I forgot. Sex outside of marriage and without the intent to have a child is a sin. Damn.

Guess that rules out me going and having sex with another chick as well.

Yes I do, cousin. 🙂

Oh shit, it is? I'm gonna be burning in hellfire for all eternity then.

Originally posted by LanceWindu
Yes I do, cousin. 🙂

Oh shit, it is? I'm gonna be burning in hellfire for all eternity then.

Ahh well, it's a given I'm going to hell, so let's have fun while we can 😊

Originally posted by Lana
I can't believe things on faith.

The thing with science, which is something that faith and religion don't have, is that it's ever-changing. You say there are no shades of grey. But reality is that the entire world exists in shades of grey. You can be a religious scientist. The two are not exclusive. People can believe just certain things they are taught in religion.

Science is ever changing because in its method is inlaced the truth of the fact that we aren't perfect. that our observations and conclusions can be wrong.

Andn of course science and religion go hand in hand. In fact from what I've seen and learned, science always seems to prove things already alluded to by religion. Science is the illuminating factor and sourc of 'evidence' to point of an existence of this God.

The most interesting thing regarding this discussion is the fact that during the Apollo 8 mission, the crew when asked to send a message back to the earth said:

Jim Lovell: "The vast loneliness is awe-inspiring and it makes you realize just what you have back there on Earth."

William Anders: "For all the people on Earth the crew of Apollo 8 has a message we would like to send you."
"In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness."

Jim Lovell: "And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day. And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so. And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day."

Frank Borman: "And God said, Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so. And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good."
"And from the crew of Apollo 8, we close with good night, good luck, a Merry Christmas, and God bless all of you - all of you on the good Earth."

LOL. Its an beautiful instant where these very heralded scientists..these people who escaped the clutches of gravity to fly above and beyond and the message they have to send back is just that of faith. 🙂

[QUOTE] Science is always trying to find new answers to things, to try and grasp and understand the things that we don't right now. If someone has an idea about something and research finds it to be wrong, oh well, try again. Religion is very anti-change though. We still have people today that think that the earth was made in 7 days and is only 6,000 years old, despite incontrivertable evidence to the contrary, simply because the bible said so. Just because something is outside our grasp and abilities now, does not mean it always will be. And mankind certainly doesn't progress because of religion.

Science is awesome. And will and has shed light on many aspects of this world. The universe is too vast. Us Homo Sapiens mere mortals. How much can we go and how far and we dig remains to be seen yes...but lets not forget our very limited capabilites.

And as for "people have believed in god since the beginning of mankind" -- not true. For one, early man was too busy trying to not be eaten to worry about such silly and petty things. For another, yes, civilizations HAVE had and worshipped gods....but certainly not the Christian one, who is a mere baby compared to other religions, both those that still exist and those who've long died out. So what makes the Christian god the true one?

I wasn't making refering necessarily to the Christian God...I was talking about faith and existence of God in general.

Originally posted by Shelbert Lemon
I believe in God but Im not a ver religious person. Im more spiritual.