He didn't care who he killed in the movies. The answer to the debate on whether or not he meant to kill the Joker and his goons may lie in a scene nobody has brought up, and that's when Bats is fighting the goon in the belltower and he hides in the bell and then grabs the guy with his legs and throws him down the entire steeple. He obviously didn't give a crap he was killing that guy, no real reason to think he gave a crap about any of the other people he was killing.
Instances when Batman OBVIOUSLY KILLED In My Opinion:
Batman (1989):
1. Dropping Jack Napier in acid (later on tells Alfred, "I just found out Jack Napier is still alive."😉. To me, he looked like he was pulling him up for a second and then he deliberately let go so Jack would plunge to his doom.
2. Bombing Axis Chemicals (Joker was in the helicopter saying "missed me...hahahah!!!). To me, that meant Bats was out to get him no matter if that meant blowing him up along with the factory. He KNEW he was going in a factory full of goons and setting bombs off.
3. Shooting missiles at the parade floats..you saw all the goons getting electrocuted
4. Dropping the big guy off the bell tower
5. Attaching JOker's leg to the statue--he totally did not care if JOker fell or not--just as long as he doesn't get away.
Batman Returns:
1. Shooting flames at the fire-blower from Batmobile (may not have died).
2. Strapping the bomb on to the fat guy's chest
Batman Forever:
1. Throwing coins so Harvey would fall
Batman & Robin:
1. Didn't bother to "rescue" Ivy from being "eaten" by the plant
Not really much from this campy movie.
Do all these killings bother me that much? Not really...like I said, it was an adaptation to Batman's dark character. He was almost like a PUnisher-type of vigilante. However, if he went up to a guy, stuck a gun to his head and blasted him, to me then that would be wrong. Or if he broke someone's neck or stuck a knife in their chest.
Batman (1989):
1. Dropping Jack Napier in acid (later on tells Alfred, "I just found out Jack Napier is still alive."😉. To me, he looked like he was pulling him up for a second and then he deliberately let go so Jack would plunge to his doom.
2. Bombing Axis Chemicals (Joker was in the helicopter saying "missed me...hahahah!!!). To me, that meant Bats was out to get him no matter if that meant blowing him up along with the factory. He KNEW he was going in a factory full of goons and setting bombs off.
3. Shooting missiles at the parade floats..you saw all the goons getting electrocuted
4. Dropping the big guy off the bell tower
5. Attaching JOker's leg to the statue--he totally did not care if JOker fell or not--just as long as he doesn't get away.
1. are u f*cking kidding me, he was trying to pull him up... ffs, he didnt drop him on purpose. if anything he'd have loved to bring napier to jail.
2. it was a factory containing all of jokers chemicals being used to poison the city. he saved thousands of peoples lives by blowing it up. how the hell can he be responsible for a couple of goons who were stupid enough to be there in the first place?
3. seriously, it wasnt that he was just trying to destroy the floats?
4. ok ill concede that, he killed him...
5. oh come on. he had no way of knowing how weak the statue would be, old churches like that stay strong for hundreds of years, he couldnt have known that would happen.
there is one instance you left out imo... the part where he uses the batwings machine guns but misses joker, unless that was intentional...
Batman Returns:
1. Shooting flames at the fire-blower from Batmobile (may not have died).
2. Strapping the bomb on to the fat guy's chest
1. exactly, may not have died.
2. sure, why not, he killed him... thats two...
Batman Forever:
1. Throwing coins so Harvey would fall
1. while its possible, i doubt he was actually trying to kill him.
Batman & Robin:
1. Didn't bother to "rescue" Ivy from being "eaten" by the plant
Not really much from this campy movie.
1. ok, sure... poetic justice n all...
i usually agree with you spycspider, but i think its a massive jump to even compare him with the punisher, imo thats a bit much... apologies if i overreacted...
No apologies needed, dude. 🙂
Those were just my perspectives on what he did....not all of them were INTENTIONS...like some are just actions he did which may have caused the deaths...but yea, KILLED nonetheless.
I always thought comics Bats hates firearms of any sort. Which is kinda ironic since his high-tech gadgetry like missiles and bombs are obviously deadly. I don't think in the comic, BAts would shoot missiles at parade floats knowing there were pedestrians (or thugs) around. And what about that scene when he kept shooting while Joker was just standing there waving?
Doesn't change the fact I still prefer Batman 1 & 2 over 3 & 4 or that I think Keaton is better as Bats.
🙂
Originally posted by Red Superfly
We all have something to bring to this discussion, but from now on I think the only thing you should bring is silence.
I actually find his post quite amusing and funny. 😆 That was actually a well needed refreshing change.At least his post isnt annoying like some of the other posters here I have gotten into it with on this thread whos names I will not mention. 😄
Originally posted by SpyCspider
No apologies needed, dude. 🙂Those were just my perspectives on what he did....not all of them were INTENTIONS...like some are just actions he did which may have caused the deaths...but yea, KILLED nonetheless.
I always thought comics Bats hates firearms of any sort. Which is kinda ironic since his high-tech gadgetry like missiles and bombs are obviously deadly. I don't think in the comic, BAts would shoot missiles at parade floats knowing there were pedestrians (or thugs) around. And what about that scene when he kept shooting while Joker was just standing there waving?
Doesn't change the fact I still prefer Batman 1 & 2 over 3 & 4 or that I think Keaton is better as Bats.
🙂
my mistake... 😮 and your right, he did... i think we all know that, we're just arguing over whether he meant to...
i know, the rockets and machine guns were a bit much...
i prefer them also... i actually watched 89 while i was replying to your post...
I disagree that Batman not killing is more "light-hearted". As a good guy I think it's better for him to be challenged by the temptation to kill these really bad guys but in the end sticking to his principles. If the movie encouraged the viewer to not worry about the fate of the villains, that would be light-hearted IMO.
*****SPOILERS*****
The only real problem with Begins -and its a small one- that I have (or at least the script I read) is that Bruce Wayne wonders the globe for a while seemingly aimlessly "looking for something." In the comic, Bruce travelled the globe learning skills with one singular purpose in mind: he was going to punish criminals. He was obsessed. Its all he could think about. I am sort of disappointed with the movie Bruce's lack of focus.
Originally posted by DarkAge
I disagree that Batman not killing is more "light-hearted". As a good guy I think it's better for him to be challenged by the temptation to kill these really bad guys but in the end sticking to his principles. If the movie encouraged the viewer to not worry about the fate of the villains, that would be light-hearted IMO.
agreed.
Well.....
1. In the parade float scene, I remember Joker saying to the goons to scare the people away. There were no people there. So I think that if no innocent people were hurt...
2. Yeah he did kill the guy in the tower but that guy has 2 times his size, there was no way he would be able to overpower him.
3. Joker didn't have to try and escape. That was his decision and Batman didn't try to kill.
4. Two-Face was murdered.
5. Penguin was stupid enough to press the button.
6. Batman is able to cross the line once if it's for the safety of the people. I mean he's only human.
Mr Parker I disagree with the first Batman movies being worse than the later ones. Tim Burton transform and re-invented the image of the Cape crusader in a very dark artistic sense. Maybe Michael Keaton wasn't the best Bruce Wayne, but he certainly made a great Batman. Whereas Clooney and Val were both terrible Bruces and Batmans. Despite that I still enjoyed the films and didn't allow that to be a nuisance while watching the movies. Set aside any disagreements and you might enjoy them better.
I wouldnt say Kilmer was terrible as Batman. He never really got to show what he could do as batman because of a script that had cornly lines in it.If he had been given a more serious script to wrok with like keaton was given I dont think there would be any question whatsoever that he would have been the perfect batman because all his serious lines that he had were as Bruce wayne and thats when he was at his best.He gave a great moving performance when he was talking about how he became batman to chase.Clooney on the other hand,I can agree with you that he was horrible.He was horrible in BOTH roles.As I have said many many times before,the ONLY good things about the first batman movie is kim basinger.she makes the movie worth sitting through and Jack nicholsons great performance of course.other than that,the movie is horrible and dont even get me started on batman returns.that one is even worse than the first film.all the batman movies sucked in one way or another and were just plain horrible sadly.Thank god for batman begins because it looks to me like there will FINALLY be a great batman movie with that film.Nolan unlike Burton seems to care about the fans because unlike burton he made a good casting choice with Bale since he at least fits the role.I am very excited about Batman begins because that film looks to be the batman movie that will please all batman fans and unlike batman 89,I think it will withstand the test of time as well.
Yeah Im not calling it a good batman movie yet Im just saying that unlike batman 89 I am excited about THIS BATMAN movie which is a good sign I will like it since I wasnt at all excited about batman 89 and I hated it as a result also the last couple years I have been excited about a movie,it hasnt let me down yet so the odds are very much in favor of me enjoying THIS Batman movie.
out of curiousity,why do YOU have your doubts about this batman movie? the one thing that Im not thrilled about is the look of the batmobile.I sure hope that in the sequels in the future,they improve on that.