Re: Wonder Woman vs. the Hulk
Originally posted by Draco69
Here's the rules : completely featureless environment (e.g. no buildings, no cars, no boulders etc.) / both contestants are at their best / both contestants no nothing about each other / both contestants will give their all to win. No outside influences (e.g. superhero allies, Greek Gods)
So standard situation. Wonder Woman wins by the rules and, I emphasize, by the rules. Her speed is just too much. Now if you mean the current JMS WW, Hulk wins.
Originally posted by Draco69
At normal power levels, the Hulk and Wonder Woman are equal in strength. However, Wonder Woman has the edge in super speed and warrior training. The Hulk is not proficient in tactical combat. "Hulk Smash!" That's it. Wonder Woman would pummel him from a dozen different angles at near-invisible super speed, and the Hulk would angrily lash out on thin air. Nerve strikes, pressure points, paralysis points. Wonder Woman knows them all. The Hulk does know the concept of a calculated fight. Without a doubt, this would be the most difficult fight of her life, but after suffering horrific wounds WW would be the last one to be (barely) standing.
I disagree with you on one thing. You said WW has the edge in speed. It is way, way, way, way more than just an edge.
Originally posted by Stoic
2. I agree with most of this, there is no doubt that he will stop her from blitzing him, as he was seen doing so to the Sentry, and with ease I might add.
The only problem I have with this is that if we go with high feats, it's obvious that Hulk stopping Sentry fits well into P.I.S. considering Sentry's high feats. This was clearly not Sentry at his best vs. Hulk at his best. It was Hulk at his best vs. way below his best Sentry.
Anyway, I'm of the opinion that, on the average day for both of them, Hulk wins and with no need to pull out WWH or WBH (which is really Hulk at his best sort of). But going with the whole P.I.S. thing and characters not fighting beneath their potential for the sake of the story, WW is on a speed level he just doesn't approach and any difference in strength and durability is not nearly enough to overcome that.
Originally posted by SupremeMan
The only problem I have with this is that if we go with high feats, it's obvious that Hulk stopping Sentry fits well into P.I.S. considering Sentry's high feats. This was clearly not Sentry at his best vs. Hulk at his best. It was Hulk at his best vs. way below his best Sentry.Anyway, I'm of the opinion that, on the average day for both of them, Hulk wins and with no need to pull out WWH or WBH (which is really Hulk at his best sort of). But going with the whole P.I.S. thing and characters not fighting beneath their potential for the sake of the story, WW is on a speed level he just doesn't approach and any difference in strength and durability is not nearly enough to overcome that.
Now show us wonder woman FIGHTING in the fashion that you are saying.
Hulk has more than the Sentry showing as proof that he does react to speedblitz attacks.
there's a scan somewhere of Hulk using his hands as a makeshift centrifuge just to indicate how fast he can move his limbs whilst still in control of them.
there's also the fact that he can, from a standing start, react and leap so fast, that he catches Jack of Hearts (who is a low-medium herald class).
there are other examples too, but most importantly, Hulk has plenty of showings of countering superspeeds and of battle strategies that nullify almost all superspeed attacks he's faced.
all it would take is one punch/thunderclap to connect for WW to be stunned long enough for Hulk to finish her off.
normal Savage Hulk is stronger than her (stronger than Thor etc), current Hulk far exceeds Savage Hulk both in physical attributes (easily dismissing an amped Rulk) and intellect, being that he is a harmonious blending of Banner and Hulk. So his strength and durability (taking 100 trillion ton+ hit without any ill effect, tanking Hiro Kala's Worldmind powered attacks etc) are way way more than enough to buy him that opening. From there on, WW is dead.
Originally posted by carver9
Now show us wonder woman FIGHTING in the fashion that you are saying.
http://www.picamatic.com/view/1228647_job17mx/
'He's already moving at speed.'
http://www.picamatic.com/view/1230180_job29bn/
'He's holding nothing back.'
'Hermes give me speed.'
http://www.picamatic.com/view/1230181_job39vm/
'Quick...have to be.....Quick.'
Originally posted by Nephthys
http://www.picamatic.com/view/1228647_job17mx/'He's already moving at speed.'
http://www.picamatic.com/view/1230180_job29bn/
'He's holding nothing back.'
'Hermes give me speed.'
Originally posted by Nephthys
http://www.picamatic.com/view/1228647_job17mx/'He's already moving at speed.'
http://www.picamatic.com/view/1230180_job29bn/
'He's holding nothing back.'
'Hermes give me speed.'
http://www.picamatic.com/view/1230181_job39vm/
'Quick...have to be.....Quick.'
Ok... now where is the speed at?
Originally posted by carver9
Now show us wonder woman FIGHTING in the fashion that you are saying.
She rarely does. I specifically stated that on an average day, he'd defeat her. She almost always selectively uses her speed in a fight. She uses it defensively to block. But she rarely displays the speed she proves herself capable of. It is more pronounced than it is with Superman because he has at least an occasional use of super speed in a fight albeit often his speed is ignored. Her's is ignored even more.
But isn't that what is argued here? Characters will fight to their full potential? They won't have it ignored for story considerations?
WW takes the majority.
Diana was granted speed by the gods. Sure, she might not blitz her opponets from the start, but neither does Wally, Jay or Bart. However, Diana is one of the few who can keep up with them. I've seen her tag Zoom, clostheline Wally, lasso Amazo and rescue a city from destruction in under a few seconds.
In my opinion, Diana has far more impressive stregnth feats than the Hulk. Theirs a huge difference between lifting and breaking. A person can break a window if they run really fast. However, he or she might have problems lifhging the same object because its too heavy.
Originally posted by aztec
WW takes the majority.Diana was granted speed by the gods. Sure, she might not blitz her opponets from the start, but neither does Wally, Jay or Bart. However, Diana is one of the few who can keep up with them. I've seen her tag Zoom, clostheline Wally, lasso Amazo and rescue a city from destruction in under a few seconds.
If you use "who-he-tagged" as an indication of superspeed, Hulk has tagged just as many speedsters as Dianna has.
Originally posted by aztec
In my opinion, Diana has far more impressive stregnth feats than the Hulk. Theirs a huge difference between lifting and breaking. A person can break a window if they run really fast. However, he or she might have problems lifhging the same object because its too heavy.
Harder to destroy a rock than it is to lift it. :-/
Actually, IMO, there are a LOT more items harder to break than they are to lift. You just used glass (a highly fragile/brittle material) to signify your point.
Originally posted by D_Dude1210
If you use "who-he-tagged" as an indication of superspeed, Hulk has tagged just as many speedsters as Dianna has.Harder to destroy a rock than it is to lift it. :-/
Actually, IMO, there are a LOT more items harder to break than they are to lift. You just used glass (a highly fragile/brittle material) to signify your point.
Were the speedsters that hulk faced going all out? Many characters who posses superspeed rarely use it, because in comics the matches would be over in few panels. What would be the point of buying comics? Anyway, in forum characters are fighting to the best of their abilities. So Hulk, will not be able to see Diana.
In "Hypothetical Woman" Wally was trying to kill Diana. However, he failed because she was able to land a hit. Diana realizing that he was running in a sequence. Both her speed and training were able to capatilize on him. The same logic can be applied to Zoom. Although she was blind, Diana was able to sense his movements. This would not be accomplished if it weren't for her speed, and faster than light reflexes.
Your right, theirs a huge difference between lifting and breaking. It all comes down to the objects weight and density. I can run really fast and demolishe the side of the wall. However, I can't lift it. The rock example you gave would defend on its structure, weight and size. I can lift a small rock and break it. 😉
Of course they were, why in the world would they not go all out with the Hulk? O_o
Also, in terms of relevance of the "lift vs break" comparison, if my memory serves me correctly, it has been theorized that it would take more force to shatter the Earth than it would be to lift a mass of equal proportion given Earth's gravity. But that is neither here nor there (aka. irrelevant to the discussion).
What is relevant is that what matters more in a fight? How much weight you can pull or how hard you hit?
Originally posted by D_Dude1210
Of course they were, why in the world would they not go all out with the Hulk? O_oAlso, in terms of relevance of the "lift vs break" comparison, if my memory serves me correctly, it has been theorized that it would take more force to shatter the Earth than it would be to lift a mass of equal proportion given Earth's gravity. But that is neither here nor there (aka. irrelevant to the discussion).
What is relevant is that what matters more in a fight? How much weight you can pull or how hard you hit?
Ok, so with that said since grey hulk destroy and asteroid that was twice the size of earth that would make him more powerful than wondy and since wwh is far more powerful than grey hulk that makes wwh still over wondy strength wise.
I don't agree with the breaking vs lifting idea.
Originally posted by carver9
I don't believe that destroying something is as good as lifting something if someone is invulnerable and is able to fly at tremendous speeds, they could easily crush something far greater than what they could lift.
Agreed. Force generation is based on acceleration and mass.
Same logic goes for lifting things, tho. You can use your own mass as well as leverage in order to lift things you normally cannot carry on your own.
Originally posted by D_Dude1210
Agreed. Force generation is based on acceleration and mass.Same logic goes for lifting things, tho. You can use your own mass as well as leverage in order to lift things you normally cannot carry on your own.
I agree but I think it would be much more difficult to lift a bed vs pushing or pulling one. Lifting takes a tremendous amount of force imo.