Originally posted by pr1983That's for sure!!!
I think to be fair she's far more complex than that... 😬
And people, don't forget, that Emma consciously chose this particular stereotype not because she is that way, but because it perfectly suites her to manipulate man and, at the same time, keep people at a distance (if you want to know why, read her miniseries).
So if anyone thinks she is just that bit**y blond babe, it's more a testament of that person's superficiality than of Emma's!
Originally posted by wannabe
That's for sure!!!And people, don't forget, that Emma consciously [B]chose
this particular stereotype not because she is that way, but because it perfectly suites her to manipulate man and, at the same time, keep people at a distance (if you want to know why, read her miniseries).
So if anyone thinks she is just that bit**y blond babe, it's more a testament of that person's superficiality than of Emma's! [/B]
I think you raised an excellent point in that she chose to be this way rather than naturally being like that... the mini wasn't half bad either and goves decent insight into the character imo...
Originally posted by eternitygoddess
You don't say it right to their faces.and Emma Frost should realize that if wasn't for Jean the 'dead cow', she'd still be lying around in a million shattered pieces.
alot of women (in my experience) do...
she saved her life, thats granted, but emma saved all their lives when she stopped cassandra nova... yet jean still mind raped her... 😬
Originally posted by eternitygoddess1) Jean also mindraped her!
You don't say it right to their faces.and Emma Frost should realize that if wasn't for Jean the 'dead cow', she'd still be lying around in a million shattered pieces.
2) Just because Jean was the first to reintegrate Emma's body doesn't mean, that she was the only one able to do so, especially not in a world full of superpowerful mutant telekinetics, reality warpers and superinventors like Forge and Reed Richards.
3) Her reaction to Jean is rather moderate for a woman, who's not accepted as the official girlfriend of Scott by almost any other X-Men, who is constantly compared to Jean, who has constantly to deal with a lover who loves her in return but still keeps thinking about his ex, and who has a history with Jean like she has.
Btw...lately Emma even came to an acceptance of Scott's thinking about Jean (see Endsong) even during their sex, because she realized the futility of trying to suppress such thoughts. Scott admitted, that Jean would simply have walked away in fury instead of confronting him and talking with him about his feelings, to achieve a mutual understanding - but Emma did.
I always liked the Jean & Scott relationship, this new thing with Emma just seems odd. Scott seemed to move on pretty quick to Emma after all the stuff he went thru with Jean. Even when she returned from the grave, Scott seemed offly eager to put her back in there fast, even Logan said it. And don't forget when Apocolypse merged with Cyclops, after that Scott was alot colder, I don't know if it finally gave him the balls to be what he was meant to be or not. Another thing which is wierd to me is the controversy if Emma is actually screwing with Cyc's mind or not, and plus with the absence of Xavier to prove it or not is also very convienient timing for Emma. But I haven't read every comic on this, so enlighten me.
Originally posted by EvilTyrantFrom another point of view you could also ask: Why did it take so long for Scott to realize, that Jean was perhaps his perfect first love, a perfect mate to dream of and a perfect nearly-girlfriend, but not the perfect wife, at least not for him?!
I always liked the Jean & Scott relationship, this new thing with Emma just seems odd. Scott seemed to move on pretty quick to Emma after all the stuff he went thru with Jean.
Originally posted by EvilTyrantSo there is Scott, who, after a pretty long time, finally realized, that his allmighty ever dying wife is not the right one for him. He finds a new girlfriend, who can give him everything Jean couldn't and it comes to a painful splitting, including a mindrape of his new girlfriend, performed by his (ex-)wife. After a fight his (ex-)wife, whom he still holds dear, dies...again.
Even when she returned from the grave, Scott seemed offly eager to put her back in there fast, even Logan said it.
Originally posted by EvilTyrantJean herself as the Phoenix "who burns away all lies" acknowledged the sincerity of Emma's love for Scott. And Scott's and Emma's relationship was already going on long before Xavier left.
Another thing which is wierd to me is the controversy if Emma is actually screwing with Cyc's mind or not, and plus with the absence of Xavier to prove it or not is also very convienient timing for Emma. But I haven't read every comic on this, so enlighten me.
2) Just because Jean was the first to reintegrate Emma's body doesn't mean, that she was the only one able to do so, especially not in a world full of superpowerful mutant telekinetics, reality warpers and superinventors like Forge and Reed Richards.
Yes, but the fact is that JEAN GREY did it. I'm not talking about who had the capability to heal emma. Jean could have chosen to let that b*tch lie there (which I would have), but she actually had the grace to heal her. If you found your husband messing around with another woman, I don't think you'd be too eager to 'help her out'.
Originally posted by eternitygoddessJean had the "grace" to "help Emma out"?
Yes, but the fact is that [B]JEAN GREY did it. I'm not talking about who had the capability to heal emma. Jean could have chosen to let that b*tch lie there (which I would have), but she actually had the grace to heal her. If you found your husband messing around with another woman, I don't think you'd be too eager to 'help her out'. [/B]
And again, there are still these facts:
Her reaction to Jean is rather moderate for a woman, who's not accepted as the official girlfriend of Scott by almost any other X-Men, who is constantly compared to Jean, who has constantly to deal with a lover who loves her in return but still keeps thinking about his ex, and who has a rather difficult history with Jean, to put it nicely.
Btw...lately Emma even came to an acceptance of Scott's thinking about Jean (see Endsong) even during their sex, because she realized the futility of trying to suppress such thoughts. Scott admitted, that Jean would simply have walked away in fury instead of confronting him and talking with him about his feelings, to achieve a mutual understanding - but Emma did.
Originally posted by katie_girl09
[QUOTE=6099710]Originally posted by pr1983
[B] I think to be fair she's far more complex than that...
Originally posted by wannabe
That's for sure!!!And people, don't forget, that Emma consciously [B]chose
this particular stereotype not because she is that way, but because it perfectly suites her to manipulate man and, at the same time, keep people at a distance (if you want to know why, read her miniseries).
So if anyone thinks she is just that bit**y blond babe, it's more a testament of that person's superficiality than of Emma's! [/B]
Originally posted by katie_girl09I'm not in the position to call you superficial in general, cause i don't know you as a person. But in this particular case your judgement is indeed superficial.
Okay. So because I don't like Emma you are calling me superficial? Am I not entitled to my opinion? That whole "manipulation of man" thing sounds like a lame explanation to me...
Originally posted by wannabe
I'm not in the position to call you superficial in general, cause i don't know you as a person. But in [B]this particular case your judgement is indeed superficial.
Of course your opinion about Emma is as valid as anyone else's and if you don't like her, it's perfectly ok.
Nonetheless there is more to Emma than the bit**y blond babe, just look at her when it comes to her students, Scott or when she's selfreflecting. And that "lame explanation" is not something i made up, it's something Emma herself said. She actually hates the image she had to take on joining the Hellfire Club, but she quickly noticed what power it gave her about men and so, especially taking the hurtings of her adolescence into account, she chose to use it. [/B]
Originally posted by katie_girl09Well, one could assume that after a first look.
I know that that wasn't something you made up. I'm just saying that I think its Marvel's excuse for making a b**chy blonde babe. Like "Oh, it gives me power!" Whatever. My judgement is not superficial, I just see things differently. That's all.
But why did they create an elaborate, extensive and psychologized background for her and her manners/attitude, one that's discussed and reflected by her teammates and herself every now and then...and pretty sophisticated, i may add!? Pretty much effort for a lame excuse for a b**tchy blond babe, wouldn't you agree?!
If she was just that b**tchy blond babe, doing just b**tchy blond things, talking only in a b**tchy blond way, i would completely agree with you - she would be nothing more than a cliché of a wet dream of a pubescent hetero comic geek.
Yet, the authors keep showing different aspects of Emma repeatedly, aspects that have nothing to do with the image she created for herself, aspects that even criticize and loath this particular image. The writers even went so far to flaw her seemingly perfect body in most ordinary ways (dyed hair, boob job, little nip/tuck here and there), making fun of it through Emma's colleagues and herself.
All in all it's a pretty complex way of handling a equally complex character.
This is certainly no reason to like this character, but calling her nothing more than a stereotype despite those facts lets me think, that you either didn't read so much about Emma or you keep your look at her superficial.
Originally posted by katie_girl09I concur! 😉 ✅
And might I add that I love how mature everyone is on this forum. Some of the other forums on KMC have the most immature people that you will ever meet! I'm glad that people here can discuss and debate their respective points of view in a mature and sensible manner.
I think, at least in the short term, that emma is good for scott...
he's the kind of guy who's afraid of whats inside him, afraid of what the person he's with will think of him if they really saw his true self... jean is the kind of woman who would just get angry and leave him be, wallowing in self pity, but emma isn't. she pushes him, makes him confront these things and shares them with him. She's had a more positive than negative effect on him since her arrival, and i think he's all the better for it...
and katie, if you don't like emma, i think you should get your hands on emma's mini, honestly. i never liked emma, and after reading the mini saw her in a different light...
emma isn't really who she seems to be, its all a persona, created over many years to shield herself from all the pain she's ever felt...
* and may i add... Jean's fidelity in the first place? hello, people... i think it's time for Cyke to move on... Jean had this animalistic desire for Logan (who is a complete freak and old enough to be her ancestor) and made Cyke a wuss... how 'bout that, people?
* well, if the redhead wants a dirty old man, rather than a good guy who truly loves her, let her be... IMO, Jean is the bi@tch and Cyke being with Emma is the manifestation of a man longing for a woman who can accept him for what he is, what he was and what he will be...
* on the other hand, re: Logan & Emma kissing... hell, Cyke can better off go and find another X-babe he deserves... man, look at Cyke, people, he is a hunk and he deserves a faithful and loyal woman unlike Jean or even Emma... over the years, i have known Cyke as a good father, a good husband, a good leader, a good student, a good friend... hell, Cyke is also a good person contrary to what others think that he had no compassion for his teammates, the X-men is his family and will die for it...
Originally posted by peejaydLonging for two man at the same time doesn't make you a b*tch, it's how you act on these feelings that would label you. Imo Jean did rather well in this aspect, except for the last time before her latest death, when her marriage was a mess already.
* and may i add... Jean's fidelity in the first place? hello, people... i think it's time for Cyke to move on... Jean had this animalistic desire for Logan (who is a complete freak and old enough to be her ancestor) and made Cyke a wuss... how 'bout that, people?* well, if the redhead wants a dirty old man, rather than a good guy who truly loves her, let her be... IMO, Jean is the bi@tch
Originally posted by peejaydDefinitely! ✅ My talking!
...and Cyke being with Emma is the manifestation of a man longing for a woman who can accept him for what he is, what he was and what he will be...
Originally posted by peejaydJust five names: Madelyn, Jean, Nathan, Rachel, Nate...
... over the years, i have known Cyke as a good father, a good husband...
-Madelyn was certainly all his fault.
-Jean certainly made mistakes within their marriage, but so did Scott. She was no good wife for him, just like he was by no means a good husband for her.
-Do i even have to speak about his qualifications as a father in Nathan's case?!
-Rachel and Nate are certainly not his responsibility when it comes to fatherhood, but as a caring human and the next best thing to a father he also completely failed.