Darth Maul VS Wolverine

Originally posted by Piedmon
"Good" is not to be confused with "superhuman." Superhuman is literally that. Humans cannot do it. Will never be able to do it. Jedi accelerating their own metabolism would still be something taken from the Force (and I've never heard of a Jedi using the force to mess with their own physiology before. Where did you get that from?) A Jedi can preform superhuman feats through the force, but naturally speaking they are still beneath the limits of their species.

Originally posted by Piedmon
He was defeated by Maul in a LIGHTSABER duel. Now hold up, because if you think my argument was weak, I just don't know what you'll think of this....

Wha--? So, YOUR defense rests on basically, the greatest case of P/CIS in history. In hundreds of years of the Jedi Order, nobody thought, "hey--I'll just hold the ****er in place and knock him out!"

Originally posted by Piedmon
We have seen many better Jedi than Maul. Except for Darth Vader, not one of them has tried to use the tactics you're talking about. Not even the Emperor does this. How come he left Luke free to move when he was blasting him with lightning? Why not stick him in place? HE'D have no qualms about it.

So, your argument is that Sith can't use the Force to telekinetically manipulate a person in the middle of combat? That's false, and I just gave four examples as to why. Deal with it.

Originally posted by Piedmon
Wuhuh? I'm talking about peacefully subduing someone here. Just use telekenesis to restrain and disarm them until they're in energy-cuffs, then haul off your criminal. Sure would save Obi-Wan and Anakin a whole lot of trouble chasing after that assassin who went after Padme.

Originally posted by Piedmon
Yeah, but here's the thing.... Dooku was a LOT better than Maul. Better as a force wielder, better as a lightsaber fighter. He trained and was probably superior to General Grievous. He was Qui-Gon's old master, for goodness' sake. Just because he does something is no indication that Maul can do it.

Originally posted by Piedmon
Not at all. We've got no reason to think Maul was good enough in the first place. (Luke in Return of the Jedi would hammer Maul into the dirt, btw.)

Originally posted by Piedmon
This still stands. There's a different between Plot-Induced and Character-Induced Stupidity. Maul's overconfidence is the latter. It's part of who he is. It wasn't "bad writing" that got him killed, it was his own characterization.

Originally posted by who?-kid
Let's compare some facts...

Originally posted by Melnorme
Amusing. Why not just award points for the "fact" that Wolverine is a cool name, and the fact that he's gritty as well? Those are every bit as relevant as some of the rest of your system. 🙄

Originally posted by who?-kid
I know you can counter better than that.

Indeed, but the more important fact is that I don't need to. 😄

Originally posted by Melnorme
Indeed, but the more important fact is that I don't need to. 😄

I thought you could counter better than that. But Wolverine still wins, and not only based on hard and cold facts, but also because I said so. 😈

Originally posted by who?-kid
Let's compare some facts...

[b]Strength : Wolverine is probably a little bit stronger, but it won't make a difference. No points here.

Speed / reflexes : Same speed and reflexes for both warriors, get over it. No points either.

Experience : Definitely Wolverine. 1 point.

Durability : Definitely Wolverine, again 1 point.

Willpower : Probably Wolverine but hard to prove - only half a point.

Close combat : Wolverine one point.

Long range attack : DM, but we can't say he actually has some heavy long range artillery, so only half a point.

Stamina : Wolverine 1 point.

Feats/enemies defeated : Wolverine 1 point.

Weapons : each a point cuz both weapons are sharp and pointy and like to cut through most metals.

powers : one point for Wolverine for his healing factor and his unbreakable skeleton, and another point for DM for his Force stuff.

Conclusion

DM : 2,5 points
Wolverine : 7,5 points [/B]

Lets see

Strength: Agreed. No points

Speed/ reflexes: Maul in a heartbeat. Maul is in top physical shape and has precog, he is leagues above Wolverine. Maul 1 point.

Experience: Maul has taken out craploads of Black Sun members and leaders. Wolverine has done a helluva lot, but you mentioned nothing of Mauls.Wolverine, but Maul has taken out a lot, just to make you happy though, Wolverine 1 point.

Durability: Wolverine is tough as nails, and had the healing factor, but Zabaraks are especially resilient and take can take extremely hard hits (and I am talking about your average Zabarak, not just Sith Lords). Also, let it be known that Maul is in top physical condition and has the mentality to get through pretty much any non-lethal wounds. No points.

Willpower: Both are good, but Maul is better. He is aware of mind tricks, has meditated a lot, and has a head filled with the mission on hand. Maul 1 point.

Close combat: I beg to differ. Maul has trained his whole life to fight, under one of the best teachers out there. Let it be known that Maul is an expert martial artist (so is Wolverine, but it appears you didn't know that). No points.

Long range attack: Maul. Force push, choke, throwing things at him with the force, no doubt it's Maul. Maul 1 point.

Stamina: Just to reiterate, Maul is in top physical condition, and can draw on the force for energy. No points

Feats/ enemies defeated: Isn't this just like the experience one? No points.

Weapons: Okay, but Mauls are better. Just to make you happy, no points.

Powers: Are you kidding me? You are gonna count all his force powers as one? Wolverine: Healing factor: 1 point, senses: 1 point.
Maul: Choke: 1 point. Speed: 1 point. Telekinesis: 1 point. Mind trick: 1 point.

Totals: Wolverine: 3 Points. Maul:6 Points.

Notes: Wolverines healing factor won't help him because Mauls constant attack will give Wolverine no time to heal and any attack is lethal.

Originally posted by jollyjim311
Speed/ reflexes: Maul in a heartbeat. Maul is in top physical shape and has precog, he is leagues above Wolverine. Maul 1 point.

Durability: Wolverine is tough as nails, and had the healing factor, but Zabaraks are especially resilient and take can take extremely hard hits (and I am talking about your average Zabarak, not just Sith Lords). Also, let it be known that Maul is in top physical condition and has the mentality to get through pretty much any non-lethal wounds. No points.

Willpower: Both are good, but Maul is better.

Long range attack: Maul. Force push, choke, throwing things at him with the force, no doubt it's Maul. Maul 1 point.

Stamina: Just to reiterate, Maul is in top physical condition, and can draw on the force for energy. No points

Feats/ enemies defeated: Isn't this just like the experience one?

Powers: Are you kidding me? You are gonna count all his force powers as one? Wolverine: Healing factor: 1 point, senses: 1 point.
Maul: Choke: 1 point. Speed: 1 point. Telekinesis: 1 point. Mind trick: 1 point.

Notes: Wolverines healing factor won't help him because Mauls constant attack will give Wolverine no time to heal and any attack is lethal.

Wolverine can take a serious stab from DM (he has survived much much worse). But DM can not take a serious stab from Wolverine.

DM : good fighter (a little bit overhyped though) with low budget telekinesis and a sharp sword. Sorry, you need more than that to kill Wolverine (where's Wolverine8888 when you need him ?)

Low budget Tk is all you need. Just life wolverine 2 inches off the ground and you've dissabled him.

omg! i forgot about forcechoke...dude, wolverines dead u fanboys just stfu

Originally posted by braz
omg! i forgot about forcechoke...dude, wolverines dead u fanboys just stfu

hahahah im just joking man gggggeeeeeeeeeeeeeessse where's ur sense of humor dont take shyt soo personal i get made fun of all the time and i dont give a ****

wolverine would get pwned though ^_^

Wolverine just doesn't have the powers to win this one. He would never even get close enought to use his claws

"Now bub you are one ugly sonnuva... [force choke] ack!"

Originally posted by braz
hahahah im just joking man gggggeeeeeeeeeeeeeessse where's ur sense of humor dont take shyt soo personal i get made fun of all the time and i dont give a ****

Originally posted by Melnorme
First of all, you're lying about never hearing about Jedi altering their physiology, because you've already referenced the D20 game, so you must have at least read the book, and it's right in there. But where did this reference come from? Perhaps you should see Episode 1, where they are able to survive a poisonous gas attack (no, they didn't merely "hold their breath". What about the way they run down with Force speed? They can't alter their bodies and fighting abilities with the Force? Yeah...right. 🙄.]

It's been YEARS since I played that game. Whatever, semantics. I'm not even addressing who would win in a hand-to-hand fight right now, I'm just waiting for this bullshit Maul-cum-Tetsuo argument of yours to run out of steam.

Jedi's rules, not mine. Your argument is still weak.

No. YOUR argument rests on the greatest case of CIS in all history. What's more likely, the Jedi being randomly prone to using their telekenesis in a useful and less violent way, or actually being BARRED from doing such..... or simply the fact that in many cases, they can't? Since your whole case rests on logical extension, explain to me where's the logic in THAT?

Oh, perhaps you're completely ignoring the way that Count Dooku held Obi Wan in place with the Force while he strangled him? Or the way Palpatine used the Force to hold Mace Windu in place while he burned him with lightning, then threw him out a window? If you forgot that part, perhaps you saw a similar scene when Dooku telekinetically threw Obi-Wan while burning him with Force lightning in Episode 2, or towards the finale of Episode 3 where Palpatine uses that move on Yoda.

You're ignoring the fact that compared to everyone you just listed, Maul is a punk. Dooku TRAINED Qui-Gon-Jinn. Emperor Palpatine is one of the most friggin' powerful Force Users in the series. These guys are both MASTERS of the Dark Side. Maul was the least of all Sidious's apprentices. Just because a master can do something, don't assume a journeyman is capable of the same.

So, your argument is that Sith can't use the Force to telekinetically manipulate a person in the middle of combat? That's false, and I just gave four examples as to why. Deal with it.

Wrong. My argument is that MAUL can't do it, and you can't give one example of him doing it. Opening a door and throwing crates is a pretty far cry from suspending someone in the middle of the air and strangling them.

You're arguing against the Jedi's code. These guys don't even get marry or get angry because they fear that either will lead to the corruption of the Dark Side, so it's absolutely understandable that their code wouldn't allow for them to use the Force to directly combat someone. Still, they can do it, even though they try to avoid it at all costs.

OK.... how is disarmament and restraint using the force for violence? It's a lot closer to a pacifist philosophy than propelling yourself forward at superspeed to slice someone's head off. For someone who's argument rests on "by extension" logic, this is a pretty poor foundation for your case.

Straw man argument. My point was that Maul and Dooku both follow the Dark Side. Their relative strengths have nothing to do with my argument, despite your trying to distract from the point with this nonsense.

What? So in your version of the Star Wars unvierse: those younglings in the temple, if they just tapped into the dark side, could kill Wolverine just as easily as Emperor Palpatine? Please, don't be absurd. Relative ability with the Force has everything to do with it. Maul and Dooku are about as interchangable as Superman and Blue Beetle.

Do you really think pushing someone back is of equal difficulty to suspending in the air? Now I know there are no real Jedi for us to ask, but it seems to me that common sense should make it clear. Physically speaking, pushing a heavy crate over is a lot easier than keeping it aloft. It's a lot easier for Jean Grey to push something back with a momentary burst of power than concentrating to keep something afloat. That seems to be the rule for all telekinetics in every universe, what makes you think Maul would be the exception?

Your irrelevant speculation means nothing. Bloodlust requires that the combatants fight to the best of their abilities. Saying that Maul wouldn't use his TK abilities flies in the face of that. You may as well argue that he'd fight with a blindfold on while wielding a feather pillow. Wolverine loses. Sorry.

So Maul wasn't "bloodlusted" when he fought Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan? Could have fooled me. No, what you mean by bloodlust is, "if Maul acted OOC..." and like I said, then he's not Darth Maul anymore. This is DARTH MAUL vs WOLVERINE, not, "what if two guys with their powers who were all like THIS fought?"

It doesn't even matter because Maul doesn't have that kind of force power. Ask any number of hardcore Star Wars fans. Maul's focus was in physical training, and all his force powers were extensions of that, meant to improve him as a duelist.

Originally posted by Piedmon
Also, I demand a new page, because these broken tables are pissing me off f0 r33lz.

Fixed...

Originally posted by who?-kid
Let's compare some facts...

[b]Strength : Wolverine is probably a little bit stronger, but it won't make a difference. No points here.

Speed / reflexes : Same speed and reflexes for both warriors, get over it. No points either.

Experience : Definitely Wolverine. 1 point.

Durability : Definitely Wolverine, again 1 point.

Willpower : Probably Wolverine but hard to prove - only half a point.

Close combat : Wolverine one point.

Long range attack : DM, but we can't say he actually has some heavy long range artillery, so only half a point.

Stamina : Wolverine 1 point.

Feats/enemies defeated : Wolverine 1 point.

Weapons : each a point cuz both weapons are sharp and pointy and like to cut through most metals.

powers : one point for Wolverine for his healing factor and his unbreakable skeleton, and another point for DM for his Force stuff.

Conclusion

DM : 2,5 points
Wolverine : 7,5 points [/B]

I think the reach advantage Maul has will help him a bunch.

I don't know if this will change anyone's mind but aparrently Darth Maul nearly defeated Darth Sidious in combat as a final test to become his apprentice
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darth_Maul
middle of the 4th paragraph

considering that Sidious was able to fight Yoda to a draw, Darth Maul might be more powerful than was shown in his 3 seconds in the movie
starwars

I don't think Maul is a...punk. Since he was an infant, he was trained by Emperor to be weapon of pure hatred and skill and was able to fight of two jedis at the same time. I think he has lots of skills.