Tortured Kitten

"So if you would not stop them from beating the cat, you are committing a possibly more heinous act."

No I'm not. I said I would make an attempt at stopping them by scaring them off (which is likely. It happens with muggers. Someone shouts "Oi! Stop!" and they run). I'm not committing a heinous act.

"When I lived in montreal I stopped a man who was raping a woman on the subway. As unbelievable as it was, more than 40 people didn't raise a hand to help her. If beating the hell outta that guy for what he did was wrong because he did nothing to me, then I am wrong."

Oh give me a break. You're comparing rape of a woman to beating a kitten?

"And don't say that there is a difference, I hate cats, but cruelty is cruelty, and allowing such cruelty to happen and not having the common sense or nads to do something about it is equally hidious"

No difference? Between RAPE and beating a kitten? Jesus Christ how disrespectful do you wanna be? Of course there is a difference between forcing sexual intercourse on an innocent bystander and beating a kitten.

It's illogical to say not beating the shit out of someone for beating the shit out of a kitten, is equally hideous. I never said I'd just walk on by, read my posts.

If I'm hideous for not lowering my mindset to "neanderthal" and being on their level, then I'll take the title. You be a moron, enjoy it.

-AC

AC, you are getting full of yourself again.
just because YOU dont percieve all of god's creatures as being worthy
of defending, it doesnt make you right.

No, I'm not.

I didn't say it wasn't worthy of defending, I said I'd make an attempt to stop them doing it and I said before that it's wrong.

There are different levels of wrong and comparing beating a kitten to rape is just utterly preposterous.

I would defend the kitten but I'm not gonna beat them up for it. Coz I'm not a moron. Physically stopping them within reason, maybe. All that would require is pulling them away and holding them down. Beating the everloving shit out of them? That's far too much. Considering they did nothing to you.

I'm not gonna risk going to jail because of a stray cat.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
It's illogical to say not beating the shit out of someone for beating the shit out of a kitten, is equally hideous. I never said I'd just walk on by, read my posts.

oh, but you think that putting it to a forceful stop is no better than toruring a defenseless creature????

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
If I'm hideous for not lowering my mindset to "neanderthal" and being on their level, then I'll take the title. You be a moron, enjoy it.
-AC

wow, what judgemental crap
bad form

"oh, but you think that putting it to a forceful stop is no better than toruring a defenseless creature????"

As I said above, forceful if needed, yes. Overly brutal for the sake of a kitten? No, not in my opinion.

As for the judgemental crap, I wasn't calling him a moron. I was implying that in my eyes, beating the living shit out of people for doing that to a kitten is over the top.

Let's all be calm and not lose our (your) tempers.

-AC

And another thing on that forceful stop theory.

It proves my EXACT point.

Force has levels, if you use force to the point of stopping the animal abuse, fair enough. But once you've pinned them down, if you beat the shit out of them you are taking it beyond necessary and into what's satisfying, which is exactly what they did to the cat. Beat for satisfaction.

In which case it's hypocritical to say that the "beat for satisfaction" aspect of this crime is horrid, if you're willing to do it yourself.

-AC

i used "satisfaction" as a partial joke.
it would be a side-effect for me, but not the purpose.
the purpose is education. "this is what pain feels like. sucks doesnt it?"
you can dislike me for feeling that way, i dont care.
ill never see you torturing anything or anyone who is defensless, so what
does it matter?(not that i think you ever would)

"the purpose is education. "this is what pain feels like. sucks doesnt it?"
you can dislike me for feeling that way, i dont care."

A) Since when did it become your role or right to educate someone you don't know, have never met or have nothing to with, on pain by dealing it out? And they call me arrogant.

B) I don't dislike you for it, that's your call but don't come here and moan at me for my opinion just coz you find it unbelievable. It's just a debate. You'd do things your way, I'd do them my way.

-AC

By putting it to a forceful stop you could escalate the situation further in which you have to protect yourself. In a physical confrontation where someone is trying to do you harm, sometimes "holding them down" is not enough. You stop their offence by putting them out of commission as it were. So if you are willing to defend yourself to that extent, then you are willing to kick the hell outta the guy who was beating the cat.

And I did not mean that the crime of beating a cat and rape were the same. However I do believe that one's moral responsibility is the same as to stop either.

A) Since when did it become your role or right to educate someone you don't know, have never met or have nothing to with, on pain by dealing it out? And they call me arrogant.

Do you not see the irony of asking that question?

"By putting it to a forceful stop you could escalate the situation further in which you have to protect yourself."

Then either make sure you hold the offender down or just don't get involved. It's really not that hard. I'm not gonna run over and get into a fight with anyone for a cat, sorry. I appreciate your need to be a hero but I wouldn't wanna be laying in a hospital after getting stabbed, having my loved ones upset saying to me "What did you do?" "They were kicking the kitten...I went over to help and got stabbed for it". You can do that by all means. Have fun.

"In a physical confrontation where someone is trying to do you harm, sometimes "holding them down" is not enough. "

They aren't doing you harm though, you're getting yourself involved. If you hold someone down to the floor in a strong way, they aren't gonna harm you. I said what I feel about that above.

"You stop their offence by putting them out of commission as it were. So if you are willing to defend yourself to that extent, then you are willing to kick the hell outta the guy who was beating the cat."

Why the "if you are willing"? No, I'm not. I'm not willing to beat the complete shit out of a human for a cat. Sorry.

"However I do believe that one's moral responsibility is the same as to stop either."

A woman getting raped infront of you and a guy kicking a cat infront of you are two different things. Completely uncomparable.

On the irony thing, I see what you said. Why do the kids have the right to teach the cat about pain right? Wrong. They're not trying to educate it, they're just being idiots. I'm not gonna waste my time on getting into bother, again, for the sake of a CAT. If you believe a kitten is worth that much (don't misunderstand this for me saying it's worthless, I'm not) then go ahead man. Defend it. Beat the shit out of whoever's doing it, that's entirely up to you. However I'm not you, you're not me and that's not how I'd do things.

-AC

You obviously misunderstood my entire post, you said you would hold them down, I say it might not be so easy and the situation could escalate.

I appreciate your need to be a hero

That was pretty ignorant and condescending. It is not a need to be a hero. It is a moral obligation to help someone or some thing if they are incapable and you have the power to do so.

"You obviously misunderstood my entire post, you said you would hold them down, I say it might not be so easy and the situation could escalate."

Fair enough. I spoke about it "not being so easy" in my above post.

"That was pretty ignorant and condescending. It is not a need to be a hero. It is a moral obligation to help someone or some thing if they are incapable and you have the power to do so."

No, it's not. I'm not obligated to help someone or something. Nor is anyone else. I have cases in which I would help, I'm not about to stand by and let a woman be raped infront of me for example. However to me, and take this how you want it because opinions are wonderful things, catching a couple of punches in the face for helping a woman avoid rape is alot more worth it than catching punches or attacks at the expense of stopping a kid or teen, kicking a cat.

It's just perspective.

You can keep your feeling of being morally obligated, don't force those upon me. I'm not morally obligated to do anything.

-AC

Then one day if you ever get bullied, or robbed, or mugged and no one lends a hand, you have no reason to expect anything else from them.

"Then one day if you ever get bullied, or robbed, or mugged and no one lends a hand, you have no reason to expect anything else from them."

This all comes down to the difference of moral servitude we hold.

You view it as an obligation to help anyone and anything in need. I don't.

If someone chose to help me during a mugging, I'd be thankful and grateful but it isn't gonna make me become obliged to do the same.

You're taking it wrong anyway. I clearly stated that there are situations where I would help. It's not like I'm saying "Bah, anyone in trouble can go **** theirselves." I'm saying that I don't believe getting into a fight and possibly ending up on the end of an attack yourself, is worth it for a kitten. If you do, that's completely fine with me. So don't moan at me coz you don't like how I do things, it doesn't affect you.

My original point was, when you take it past "helping" and into "beating the shit out of them" for satisfaction, PAST the point of the criminal or attacker being subdued, you're not doing anything the kitten abusers didn't do.

People refer to me as arrogant but the only arrogance here is the fact that I am being more or less accused of being wrong/immoral based on my difference of morals to you. If we all thought the same, nobody would be thinking.

-AC

as i said, the satisfaction is a side effect. and im not saying its RIGHT.
i'm just being honest. you can run with that, blow it up, and try to win your arguement that way, but its a BS method.

"as i said, the satisfaction is a side effect. and im not saying its RIGHT.
i'm just being honest. you can run with that, blow it up, and try to win your arguement that way, but its a BS method."

When did this become about winning? I'm not trying to win anything. I'm stating my opinion and my opinion on your opinions. I'm not trying to prove you to be wrong, you are apparantly trying to do that to me though. You don't have the right to tell me if my morals are bad, good, up to standard or squeaky clean. My morals are MY morals. I'm not expecting nor requesting anyone here to adhere to them, don't expect the same and certainly don't take the position of being on a high horse (that I get so often accused of) by trying to fault my words off the back of disagreement.

That satisfaction thing is a theory, don't assume I'm aiming everything at you when I refer to it. You're not the only one who has said it, I mean it in general.

-AC

*sigh*

im aware that there is no winning of such a debate, please calm down.
adn you argued satisfaction as being the supposed justification of beating
the crap out of such an offender. see here:

"My original point was, when you take it past "helping" and into "beating the shit out of them" for satisfaction, PAST the point of the criminal or attacker being subdued, you're not doing anything the kitten abusers didn't do."

those are your own words. "for satisfaction". you decare this to be a true statement in your opinion. i stated that you're reasoning is partially based on my use of the word "satisfaction" to describe the feeling of punishing the wicked. in that same post i pointed out that it wasnt right, and nobody else did either. so there ya go.

"i stated that you're reasoning is partially based on my use of the word "satisfaction" to describe the feeling of punishing the wicked. in that same post i pointed out that it wasnt right, and nobody else did either. so there ya go."

You made an assumption that my reasoning was based on you. I've been saying the same thing since way before you and I interacted on this thread, PVS.

I was referring to it in general. If anyone beats someone up out of satisfaction or takes it past subduing and into satisfaction, they are acting no different. Because then it doesn't become about punishing the wicked, which by the way, isn't anyone's role but the authorities.

And unless you're a cop, you aren't one of those. So there ya go.

-AC

so you declare me to be presumptuous, and then you once again go on to ASSUME that such a beating would be for the sake of satisfaction? then you label it as "general", as if MOST who would do it thinks this is justification.
and i have to ask you, how do you know this? if such an action is such nonsense and far beneath you, then how can you presume to know the motives of someone who thinks its fair?

like i said, im not trying to win this, as its all dependant on one's perception of justice. however, you are assuming way too much as well.

its about justice, not satisfaction. anyone who would beat the crap out of these kids for the sake of satisfaction is welcome to contradict me.