"But not all fantasies or urges will lead to Paedophilia. Some will and others would not. There is a difference between desire and committing the act."
Yeah that's true but it differs between person. However a law is a law for a reason. It has to apply to everyone before hand coz you never know that they'll commit the act or not.
-AC
pe·do·phil·ia: sexual perversion in which children are the preferred sexual object
"preferred sexual object" its about a preference for children.
you can either like someone based on them or their status.
example: you can fancy someone simply because they are rich, which makes you a gold digger, or you can fancy someone who just HAPPENS to be rich, which i dont think would warrent such a label.
i think the same applies. if you say "hillary duff is cute, because she has nice cans...etc, too bad shes underage" i dont think that falls under the pedophilia category. a true pedophile is turned on by youngness, as i stated before.
i guess its all in the translation, as i have seen other definitions without the word "preference". i think that is the important defining word.
"i think the same applies. if you say "hillary duff is cute, because she has nice cans...etc, too bad shes underage" i dont think that falls under the pedophilia category. a true pedophile is turned on by youngness, as i stated before."
Well then you are more or less eradicating the chance of acting upon it.
BUT....as I keep saying:
MY POINT was that (and I don't put guys who say "she's hot" next to convicted paedophiles) if you have a sexual attraction to underaged people, by definition it is an act of paedophila. That is ALL I WAS SAYING.
So you are going with the definition that includes the word preference, coz it helps? The definition on Dictionary.Com doesn't have that nor does any other one I've seen.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
"But not all fantasies or urges will lead to Paedophilia. Some will and others would not. There is a difference between desire and committing the act."Yeah that's true but it differs between person. However a law is a law for a reason. It has to apply to everyone before hand coz you never know that they'll commit the act or not.
-AC
The law is for keeping all citizens safe. Is to mantain social order. Now, that doesn't mean everyone is going to be a suspect for having criminal thoughts. A guy can create the idea of robbing a bank or burglar a home inside his head. That doesn't make him a criminal. If he actually goes out and does rob a bank or burglar a home then he is a criminal. Same with the guy that has pedophilia thoughts in his mind. Of course people with that kind of mind require psychological help. In other words he needs help not a jail with a warm bed.
"A guy can create the idea of robbing a bank or burglar a home. That doesn't make him a criminal. If he actually goes out and does rob a bank or burglar a home then he is a criminal. Same with a pedophilia. "
You worked this out how? Bank Robbery is in the same vein as Rape. It HAS to be acted or it is non existant.
Paedophila is not the same.
-AC
Originally posted by WindDancer
The law is for keeping all citizens safe. Is to mantain social order. Now, that doesn't mean everyone is going to be a suspect for having criminal thoughts. A guy can create the idea of robbing a bank or burglar a home inside his head. That doesn't make him a criminal. If he actually goes out and does rob a bank or burglar a home then he is a criminal. Same with the guy that has pedophilia thoughts in his mind. Of course people with that kind of mind require psychological help. In other words he needs help not a jail with a warm bed.
This isn't a good analogy.
What has being 'suspect' got to do with it? The definition of burglary is entering part of a building with intent to steal, commit gbh, criminal damage, or rape. The definition of paedophilia isn't anything to do with the law, it's a matter of inclination.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
"A guy can create the idea of robbing a bank or burglar a home. That doesn't make him a criminal. If he actually goes out and does rob a bank or burglar a home then he is a criminal. Same with a pedophilia. "You worked this out how? Bank Robbery is in the same vein as Rape. It HAS to be acted or it is non existant.
Paedophila is not the same.
-AC
All crimes require a plan. But if the person decides not to go ahead and commit the crime (in other words pull out the last minute) is he still a criminal? No not at all. Of course you cannot discard the posibility of that person trying to commit a crime in the future. But until the person actually commits the crime then that person is indeed a criminal. In order to be a criminal you need to commit a crime.
Now, you explain to me why Paedophilia is different from any other crime that requires planning? All crimes require a plan before committing a crime. How is it different in paedophilia.
Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
This isn't a good analogy.
What has being 'suspect' got to do with it? The definition of burglary is entering part of a building with intent to steal, commit gbh, criminal damage, or rape. The definition of paedophilia isn't anything to do with the law, it's a matter of inclination.
Well, maybe burglary was a bad example. Maybe I shoulda have gone with car theft? arson? murder?......
"All crimes require a plan. But if the person decides not to go ahead and commit the crime (in other words pull out the last minute) is he still a criminal? No not at all."
Ok, last time.
Once you have had a sexual attraction to an underaged person, by definition and inclination, acted upon or not, it is an act of paedophila.
"Now, you explain to me why Paedophilia is different from any other crime that requires planning? All crimes require a plan before committing a crime. How is it different in paedophilia."
BECAUSE......it doesn't.....stay with me........it doesn't, HAVE TO.....be ACTED OUT.....in order for the INCLINATION....to hold true.
"Maybe I shoulda have gone with car theft? arson? murder?......"
Intent to steal a car, burn a building or take a life, doesn't commit any of those actual crimes unless acted upon. Paedophila, as stated, is an inclination.
-AC
Originally posted by WindDancer
All crimes require a plan. But if the person decides not to go ahead and commit the crime (in other words pull out the last minute) is he still a criminal? No not at all. Of course you cannot discard the posibility of that person trying to commit a crime in the future. But until the person actually commits the crime then that person is indeed a criminal. In order to be a criminal you need to commit a crime.Now, you explain to me why Paedophilia is different from any other crime that requires planning? All crimes require a plan before committing a crime. How is it different in paedophilia.
Well, maybe burglary was a bad example. Maybe I shoulda have gone with car theft? arson? murder?......
Paedophilia isn't a crime. It's a state of mind. You become a paedophile at the point of having the thoughts, no crime is necessary. If you are going to debate, at least think through what you are talking about.
My point was to get to that borderline between Pedophile and actually committing the crime of child sexual abuse. But is quite is obvious is not getting there. And is true Pedophile is not a legal category or term. Although the acts pedophiles desire to carry out are criminal in most jurisdictions, they are not legally referred to as pedophilia. But anyways, it was just an observation I was trying to make.
"Although the acts pedophiles desire to carry out are criminal in most jurisdictions, they are not legally referred to as pedophilia. But anyways, it was just an observation I was trying to make."
I understand what you're saying but like, the way you made it seem was "You're not a murderer if you don't murder. Nor are you a paedophile if you don't.....paedoph...". Which isn't the case because as Vic stated, it's a state of mind, not a crime. Paedophilia does not equate to raping a child, it's the thoughts. Once you have them, it is paedophilia.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
So you are going with the definition that includes the word preference, coz it helps? The definition on Dictionary.Com doesn't have that nor does any other one I've seen.
Source: Merriam-Webster Medical Dictionary, © 2002 Merriam-Webster, Inc.
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=pedophilia
its a psyciatric disorder, not a normal function of the mind, or a law term. its an attraction to CHILDREN, not someone who happens to be underage. a pattern of behavior, which centers around being turned on by those who are obviously not adults, not children who look like adults. you are just looking for loopholes in a short definition to fit your own theory. its a disorder, thats where the WORD comes from. you cant just change the reality of it.
and here you go as well
http://cancerweb.ncl.ac.uk/cgi-bin/omd?paraphilia
"Paraphilias are a variety of complex psychiatric disorders which are manifest as deviant sexual behaviour. For example, in men the most common forms are pedophilia (sexual behaviour toward children) and exhibitionism (exposing one's body in public setting). Men with paraphilia are usually treated with psychotherapy, antidepression medications, and medications that alter hormones, particularly testosterone (male sex hormone)."