Originally posted by A.J
im 100 positive bats wins
Wolverine always has his gadgets with him, three mean claws on the right, and three razor sharp claws on his left. He likes to use them, he knows how to use them and if Batman has to fight Wolverine close combat style, it's very unlikely he will not get stabbed.
Remember, this is not a comic we are debating, where each warrior has to look good, here we debate how it should be according to us. And imo, Wolverine wins. Tougher, more experienced and a more dangerous warrior. He won't hold back either, another advantage for Wolverine.
Originally posted by who?-kid
Okay. Skill to skill hmm ?I still give it to Wolverine, but it isn't a big difference. They are very close skill wise. But Wolverine fights with his (animal) instinct and his skills. Batman only uses his skills.
Fighting like an absent minded animal against one of the best martial artist wouldn't work for Wolverine, actually, it would work against him. Batman's motions have been described as a river of life, flowing from one move to another and has been described as being beautiful to watch while he's moving. I think he's more skilled than Wolverine is.
Originally posted by who?-kid
How ? We all know how Wolverine can kill Batman. How can Batman beat Wolverine in a "realistic" way ? Unless Batman just happens to have some anti-Wolverine spray in his mighty utility belt (how much does that thing weigh ? two tons ?) I just don't see much gadgets working against Wolverine.Wolverine always has his gadgets with him, three mean claws on the right, and three razor sharp claws on his left. He likes to use them, he knows how to use them and if Batman has to fight Wolverine close combat style, it's very unlikely he will not get stabbed.
Remember, this is not a comic we are debating, where each warrior has to look good, here we debate how it should be according to us. And imo, Wolverine wins. Tougher, more experienced and a more dangerous warrior. He won't hold back either, another advantage for Wolverine.
Well, we are not discussing if Wolverine had his claws and bones and if Batman had his belt, we are discussing if they didn't have these things. However, I think that there is plenty in Batman's belt that he could use to overwhelm Wolverine's senses such as flash bangs, sonics, stun grenades, and knock out gas. However, those wouldn't knock him out by any means but they would however leave him a bit disoriented. I don't think it's out of the relm of possibility for Batman to KO a wobbly disoriented Wolverine with one of his one hit kill blows.
Originally posted by batdude123If Wolverine is given time to adjust to not having any powers and is ready for the fight he should still take Batman. The only way Batman should have a chance is if Wolverine has zero time to get used to having no powers or if he's not aware he doesn't have powers when the fight starts.
We are talking about if Wolverine had ABSOLUTELY no mutant powers. No claws, healing factor, senses, enhanced agility, enhanced reflexes, etc. Just skill vs. skill.
Even if does not have time to retrain himself he still kicks much, much ass with no powers. Didn't he take out 3 genoshan magistrates with a power inhibitor on, being poisoned for weeks to months from adamantium, with both hands manacled behind his back? Then there is also the prison incident. The powers who actually could fight still didn't have the balls to go anywhere near Wolverine, even though he had no powers.
If you dont give Wolverine the time to retrain himself this fight is horribly biased in Batman's favor. On a fair playing field Wolverine should still have an advantage. Almost all Wolverine's skills are directly aimed at fighting and killing people. At least half of Batman's skills are directed at non combat areas.
Originally posted by riceroost
If Wolverine is given time to adjust to not having any powers and is ready for the fight he should still take Batman. The only way Batman should have a chance is if Wolverine has zero time to get used to having no powers or if he's not aware he doesn't have powers when the fight starts.Even if does not have time to retrain himself he still kicks much, much ass with no powers. Didn't he take out 3 genoshan magistrates with a power inhibitor on, being poisoned for weeks to months from adamantium, with both hands manacled behind his back? Then there is also the prison incident. The powers who actually could fight still didn't have the balls to go anywhere near Wolverine, even though he had no powers.
If you dont give Wolverine the time to retrain himself this fight is horribly biased in Batman's favor. On a fair playing field Wolverine should still have an advantage. Almost all Wolverine's skills are directly aimed at fighting and killing people. At least half of Batman's skills are directed at non combat areas.
That's actually debatable. Batman's fighting skills in my opinion are better than Wolverine's. Consitant showings of skills suggests Batman is the better martial artist of the two. Batman fights and trains to fight metahumans without having to rely on mutant powers, just skill. And you are comparing prison thugs to Batman??? Please, Batman could take those guys as well. However, Batman's skills are his domain. Wolverine is more like the brawler. Even if you give time for Wolvie to adjust to being depowered, imo Batman would still win.
Originally posted by batdude123Batman has to use skill about 100% of the time, where Wolverine really only has to use skill 25% of the time. Of course Batman is going to have more skill showings. He has to or he would be dead. More showings do not mean he is more skilled. It means Batman is handled by people who know his character. (which Wolverine writers cannot claim.)
Consitant showings of skills suggests Batman is the better martial artist of the two.
Originally posted by batdude123And a utility belt, and hours of prep, and buck-up, and 27 vehicles...
Batman fights and trains to fight metahumans without having to rely on mutant powers, just skill.
Originally posted by batdude123They were depowered superhuman villians, not simple thugs. There was a bounty on Wolverine's head, meaning that the whole prison was gunning for him. Batman took out 3 guys in a cell. Wolverine with no powers, no weapons, and being poisoned by adamantium, took on an entire riot by himself.
And you are comparing prison thugs to Batman??? Please, Batman could take those guys as well.
Originally posted by batdude123Skills are his domain??? So?
However, Batman's skills are his domain. Wolverine is more like the brawler.
The best fighters in the world are not martial artists. They are guys who can throw a punch, grapple, and maybe break an arm or two. Mixed Martial Artists are condsidered brawlers by most traditional schools of MA, yet they would take down a Bruce Lee in about 3 minutes.
Just because Wolverine brawls doesn't mean he isn't a better fighter than Batman. Wolverine beat the snot out of Ogun using brawling tactics. Ogun also is not human, so Wolverine didn't have an advatage when kicking the crap out of him. Ogun laughs off getting impaled too. Wolverine with no claws also out "brawled" Shang-Chi in 3 or 4 moves, who I believe can amp himself up to Spider-Man levels, so your opinion of Wolverine's brawling skills being inadequate is contradictory.
IMO having Ogun's 1000 years of knowledge, mixed with 110 - something years of experience, mixed with having no aversion to killing people, combined with the fact that Wolverine trains mainly only to fight means there should be no way Batman is better, more learned, o more skilled.
Originally posted by riceroost
Batman has to use skill about 100% of the time, where Wolverine really only has to use skill 25% of the time. Of course Batman is going to have more skill showings. He has to or he would be dead. More showings do not mean he is more skilled. It means Batman is handled by people who know his character. (which Wolverine writers cannot claim.)
Yeah, his brawling skills are good, but Batman has beaten his fair share of brawlers before. Skill is not one of Wolverine's strong suits. Whenever he is claimed to know so much about martial arts, he rarely if ever shows it. Batman on the other hand, has been said to be like poetry in motion and skillfully endowed like nobody else.
Originally posted by riceroost
And a utility belt, and hours of prep, and buck-up, and 27 vehicles...
He uses tools but so what? When he fights villains or anybody he comes across, he usually goes h2h with them and schools the hell out of them.
Originally posted by riceroost
They were depowered superhuman villians, not simple thugs. There was a bounty on Wolverine's head, meaning that the whole prison was gunning for him. Batman took out 3 guys in a cell. Wolverine with no powers, no weapons, and being poisoned by adamantium, took on an entire riot by himself. [/B]
Were any of them on Batman's skill level? If not, then this point is moot.
Originally posted by riceroost
Skills are his domain??? So?The best fighters in the world are not martial artists. They are guys who can throw a punch, grapple, and maybe break an arm or two. Mixed Martial Artists are condsidered brawlers by most traditional schools of MA, yet they would take down a Bruce Lee in about 3 minutes. [/B]
They can beat Bruce Lee in three minutes? 🤨 Are you high?
Originally posted by riceroost
Just because Wolverine brawls doesn't mean he isn't a better fighter than Batman. Wolverine beat the snot out of Ogun using brawling tactics. Ogun also is not human, so Wolverine didn't have an advatage when kicking the crap out of him. Ogun laughs off getting impaled too. Wolverine with no claws also out "brawled" Shang-Chi in 3 or 4 moves, who I believe can amp himself up to Spider-Man levels, so your opinion of Wolverine's brawling skills being inadequate is contradictory. [/B]
Ogun isn't a master of nearly as many styles as Batman is. Ogun-13; Batman-127 Also, that was a novice Shang Chi and that was a one time showing for Wolverine.
Originally posted by riceroost
IMO having Ogun's 1000 years of knowledge, mixed with 110 - something years of experience, mixed with having no aversion to killing people, combined with the fact that Wolverine trains mainly only to fight means there should be no way Batman is better, more learned, o more skilled. [/B]
If experience was the be all to end all, don't you think Batman would get beat by Rah's Al Guhl who has like 1000 years of experience just like Ogun does? Yet, Batman beats his ass every time. Same deal with Karate Kid, the guy is 16 years old and he's the best martial artist in comic book history. Also, yes Wolverine's brawling tacticts might work on the giant monsters (Caliban, Wendigo, Hulk, etc...), but he usually gets bested by any high level martial artist. Black Panther, Iron Fist, and Daredevil have all bested Wolverine when they fought. Now, if Wolverine didn't have any mutant powers to fall back on, then he wouldn't be such an effective fighter. He usually gets smacked around a lot and if it wasn't for Wolvie's healing factor, he'd be dead by now. Wolverine has never shown any fighting prowess to make me think he can take Batman out in pure skill alone without ANY of his mutant powers. His mutant powers augment his fighting ability, take that away from him and imo he would get bested by Bats in a fight.
Originally posted by batdude123
Yeah, his brawling skills are good,
Originally posted by batdude123
But Batman has beaten his fair share of brawlers before.
Originally posted by batdude123
Skill is not one of Wolverine's strong suits.
Originally posted by batdude123
Whenever he is claimed to know so much about martial arts,
Originally posted by batdude123
he rarely if ever shows it.
Originally posted by batdude123
Batman on the other hand, has been said to be like poetry in motion and skillfully endowed like nobody else.
Originally posted by batdude123
He uses tools but so what?
Originally posted by batdude123
When he fights villains or anybody he comes across, he usually goes h2h with them and schools the hell out of them.
Originally posted by batdude123
Were any of them on Batman's skill level? If not, then this point is moot.
Originally posted by batdude123
They can beat Bruce Lee in three minutes? 🤨 Are you high?
Originally posted by batdude123
Ogun isn't a master of nearly as many styles as Batman is.
Originally posted by batdude123
Ogun-13; Batman-127
Originally posted by batdude123
Also, that was a novice Shang Chi
Originally posted by batdude123
and that was a one time showing for Wolverine.
Originally posted by batdude123
If experience was the be all to end all, don't you think Batman would get beat by Rah's Al Guhl who has like 1000 years of experience just like Ogun does?
Originally posted by batdude123
Same deal with Karate Kid, the guy is 16 years old and he's the best martial artist in comic book history.
Originally posted by batdude123
Also, yes Wolverine's brawling tacticts might work on the giant monsters (Caliban, Wendigo, Hulk, etc...),
Originally posted by batdude123
but he usually gets bested by any high level martial artist.
Originally posted by batdude123
Black Panther,
Originally posted by batdude123
Iron Fist, ,
Originally posted by batdude123
and Daredevil have all bested Wolverine when they fought.
Originally posted by batdude123
Now, if Wolverine didn't have any mutant powers to fall back on, then he wouldn't be such an effective fighter. He usually gets smacked around a lot and if it wasn't for Wolvie's healing factor, he'd be dead by now.
Originally posted by batdude123
Wolverine has never shown any fighting prowess to make me think he can take Batman out in pure skill alone without ANY of his mutant powers.
Originally posted by batdude123
His mutant powers augment his fighting ability, take that away from him and imo he would get bested by Bats in a fight.
I am sorry if I came off a little harsh.
Originally posted by who?-kid
Wolveirne is an underrated fighter. He's much more than a brawler, but some writers think it's cool when they write him as a walking tank who doesn't need to dodge bullets.
Which is where people get the random interpritation that Wolverine is invincible 😐
Theres a reason that Wolverine dodges bullets 😄
Originally posted by who?-kid
How ? We all know how Wolverine can kill Batman. How can Batman beat Wolverine in a "realistic" way ? Unless Batman just happens to have some anti-Wolverine spray in his mighty utility belt (how much does that thing weigh ? two tons ?) I just don't see much gadgets working against Wolverine.Wolverine always has his gadgets with him, three mean claws on the right, and three razor sharp claws on his left. He likes to use them, he knows how to use them and if Batman has to fight Wolverine close combat style, it's very unlikely he will not get stabbed.
Remember, this is not a comic we are debating, where each warrior has to look good, here we debate how it should be according to us. And imo, Wolverine wins. Tougher, more experienced and a more dangerous warrior. He won't hold back either, another advantage for Wolverine.