Holocaust Memorial Day

there are people here that don't believe it either or say the numbers are exagerated... we have a law that makes it a criminal offence to support this

Originally posted by PVS
well, i saw enough photos of mountains of dead bodies to make a believer out of me.

and i DO dispise any who would deny that it happened. to say "i have seen no convincing proof, so i remain sceptical" is far different than "its bullshit...it never happened".

Feel free to despise.

But if I stood up and said that the genocide of the native Americans didn't happen, you might think me an obtuse ignorant idiot, but would you actually put me in jail for it? Of course not, it is manifestly ludicrous to bring criminal prosecution against someone for an incorrect historical belief, regardless of how bigoted it is.

But for some reason several European countries have chosen to make this a matter of law with this particular subject, and it really does my head in- and as if that will achieve anything other than to create more anti-semitic conspiracy theory.

There is plenty of evidence that it happened, and it cannot be denied that Jews died in vast amounts, but some people have questioned the means. They may be totally wrong- but in some countires, this questioning is illegal, and that is a policy we would have expected in totalitarian regimes, not liberal democracies.

✅

I'm hating myself for agreeing with you Ush, you always do it.

i too think its disgusting to eliminate free speech even in such matters.

on a basis of law, i agree fully. i feel that any group has the LEGAL right to say whatever they please, so long as it doesnt put anyone in immediate danger.

on a basis of law, i agree fully. ii feel that any group has the LEGAL right to say whatever they please

perhaps such laws are partly responsible for growing antisemitism in europe...when you think about it.

perhaps such laws are partly responsible for growing antisemitism in europe...when you think about it.

...as is the case in america

Originally posted by yerssot
actually, clovie

there are people here that don't believe it either or say the numbers are exagerated... we have a law that makes it a criminal offence to support this

Originally posted by yerssot
I'm always on top of things, but you can be on top of mine 😉

Originally posted by Tex
I wouldn't say that they dont believe it, just that they believe that the number of dead are exaggerated.

Makes no difference to me, just killing 1 person for being different or not societies established norm is deplorable and unforgivable!

they said more ppl in USA believe in ufo than that WWII has actually taken place 😑

Originally posted by KharmaDog
Many people believe that it didn't happen. Still many more, though they believe it happened, see it as something that happened in the past and is of no real concern today. There are even others who may believe, but really don't give a shit either way.

im glad we have these comemorative days sa as it is we can't forget what happened. Those poor people...

Today I morn for my grandfather who dead in the holocaust along time ago.I really miss him and wish he was still alive.JM

but to prosecute them for that is a serious violation of free speech.

Well in canada you have free speech however it says you can't say anything hateful towards others. A man named earnest zundal from Germany came to Canada. He spread hateful messages about the holocast saying it didn't happen and the government now ordered his deportation. Canada is really turning into a soceity of minority rights are a bigger concern then majority rules, which i think is good. You can't create and sing hateful music legally. Free speach is needed but there is a limit. I think you should be able to saying but nothing which is very hateful and racist!

The holocast is one of the most chilling things in history. I hate the fact that history teachers don't teach alot of it. Well 3 out of ten canadians did not know that the jews were killed in those death camps. Such stupidity makes we want to cry.!!!

What exactly does "I think you should be able to saying..." mean?

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Feel free to despise.

But if I stood up and said that the genocide of the native Americans didn't happen, you might think me an obtuse ignorant idiot, but would you actually put me in jail for it?

You are out of touch - most people in this country know no history at all so you could get away with with inaccurate opinions on more obscure events.

As about the Canadian deportation thing, the point is there is a fine line between free speech and inciting racial hatred. Context is the issue here. I think that guy was a bit of a jew-hater. But the point is in Europe, it doesn;t matter if you hate Jews, love Jews, or even ARE Jewish, questioning the holocaust has become a criminal offence in of itself, regardless of context. That's the silly bit.

As the David Irving libel trial showed, the US and the UK, the feeling is that if a man wants to make an idiot of himself saying things like that, then the fact he looks an idiot is all that needs to be done... and if some people choose to believe him, then that IS their right, so long as that does not translate into prejudice or violence- but those ARE crimes, and can be dealt with accordingly, Saying a historical thing did not happen is no crime by any logic.

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And Shaber- I rather think I was talking to Dave personally there.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
As the David Irving libel trial showed, the US and the UK, the feeling is that if a man wants to make an idiot of himself saying things like that, then the fact he looks an idiot is all that needs to be done... and if some people choose to believe him, then that IS their right, so long as that does not translate into prejudice or violence- but those ARE crimes, and can be dealt with accordingly, Saying a historical thing did not happen is no crime by any logic.

and maybe its good that such hateful idiots are allowed to spew their verbal excrement...when you really think about it. the most dangerous times in such matters involves secrecy and not public displays of hatred. the holocaust was and is so elusive in that it was a well kept secret. when the killing started, few believed that such atrocities were taking place. including german civilians, non-ss soldiers and jews. the antisemitism was blatant, but the 'final solution' seemed to be just a crazy rumor.

and as far as people denying the holocaust...being an idiot should not be a crime. although i firmly believe that such denial is a direct result of antisemitism, and is disgusting to say the least, changing law will not enlighten such idiots. instead it will only accelerate the problem imho, forcing such people to discuss these and other racist ideas in private. not to mention that such speech oppressing governments are probably not trusted in the least...so i can see antisemites in such regions coming up with paranoid theories of a jew/government conspiracy and things of the like. not that far fetched considering the 'jew/media conspiracy' theory that some of our ignorant fellow americans like to preach.

isnt it better to know who to monitor, rather than make it law that these ideas must exist in secrecy?

Originally posted by manny321
Free speach is needed but there is a limit. I think you should be able to saying but nothing which is very hateful and racist!

I don't agree with you there 😬 How can you have something called 'freedom of speech' with limitations imposed? What, you gonna call it 'Almost Free Speech'? Or 'You can think and say what you want but make sure it isn't too different from everyone else or we'll throw you in jail'?? 🙄

yeah, free speech should be unconditional.
the only limits imposed in the states is when one puts others
in immediate danger when speaking. an example would be yelling
"FIRE" in a movie theater when there is no fire.

😂

It completely contradicts the word 'free' in 'free speech' if limitations are imposed.

There are tonnes of limitations on free speech. The FCC are big time Haters of free speech. Freedom of speech is a double edged sword.