Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Im going to have to correct you here, because I have read the Qur'an and the Hadiths many times over, and have given a lot of thought to the religion, so saying I know nothing about it is far fetched, I promise you.With all due respect, Sam Z, next time, when you attempt to claim someone doesn't know what they are talkign about, check if they are the ones who don;t know what they are talking about, or you.
Oh and please read the Qur'an, then come back and we'll debate on it properly.
Here is the link for an online Qur'an translated to English
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/
I bumbed this thread few weeks ago because I found simillar post with quotes from Koran, majority of those quotes are the same as you posted just now. Last time I commented on every quote from there and explained everything, I can do that again but if you don't mind I wont coz it is a lot of writing and I'll again have to check all quotes in my Koran, so if you want you can check that my post.
I still say that the one who thinks that Islam is violant religion is wrong.
Whenever Koran says about fighting it is always about fighting back when someone attacks you or about fighting nonbelievers and that doesn't mean literally fight, that's Jihad, it says about spreading religion and fighting beliefes that according to Koran are wrong.
And lil bithiness, i do know what I am talking about, there are few main things about islam.
1) Muslims must believe that there is no God except Allah and that Mohammad is his prophet.
2) Muslims must pray five times a day.
3) Muslim must visit Kaaba atleast once in his life unless he has no money to go or not healthy enough, in this case he may not go.
4) Ramadan
5) Spreading religion (not by fighting or killing as majority of people think but by simply telling about it)
These are 5 main things about Islam and all are peacfull. I respect you and I don't have anything against your religion especially since I'm too far to spread my religion where you live, so please. Don't be foolled by stereotypes.
OK, Since there are actual muslims here, I'd like to invite you to leave tell us your favorite verse from the Q'uran at the "favorite scripture thread".
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f80/t398655.html
So far it's just Christian scripture, we need a broader base.
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Im going to have to correct you here, because I have read the Qur'an and the Hadiths many times over, and have given a lot of thought to the religion, so saying I know nothing about it is far fetched, I promise you.[b]Kafirs, (which are, im sad to say most of us)are to be treated as such according to Islam
-If you do not believe in Islam, you have to subdue to all Muslims and pay tax
Jews and Christians are to be put a curse on -
IF you are an atheist or non-Muslim
Pagans are dirty (Buddhists, we qualify for this as well)
With all due respect, Sam Z, next time, when you attempt to claim someone doesn't know what they are talkign about, check if they are the ones who don;t know what they are talking about, or you.
Oh and please read the Qur'an, then come back and we'll debate on it properly.
Here is the link for an online Qur'an translated to English
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/ [/B]
so there it is isn't it?It clears all ur wrong thoughts abt Islam.
As the Quran says:"but if they fight u ,slay them."
'If'! 'If'!
so they start it n v defend.If they don't want 2 fight then wat can b better?
N wat's with the buddhist? the Holy Quran doesn't refer 2 them anywhere.Ur puttin it in there by urself.God doesn't address buddhist in the Holy Quran n not even the Bible or Torah.
Originally posted by Sam Z
I bumbed this thread few weeks ago because I found simillar post with quotes from Koran, majority of those quotes are the same as you posted just now. Last time I commented on every quote from there and explained everything, I can do that again but if you don't mind I wont coz it is a lot of writing and I'll again have to check all quotes in my Koran, so if you want you can check that my post.I still say that the one who thinks that Islam is violant religion is wrong.
Whenever Koran says about fighting it is always about fighting back when someone attacks you or about fighting nonbelievers and that doesn't mean literally fight, that's Jihad, it says about spreading religion and fighting beliefes that according to Koran are wrong.
And lil bithiness, i do know what I am talking about, there are few main things about islam.
1) Muslims must believe that there is no God except Allah and that Mohammad is his prophet.
2) Muslims must pray five times a day.
3) Muslim must visit Kaaba atleast once in his life unless he has no money to go or not healthy enough, in this case he may not go.
4) Ramadan
5) Spreading religion (not by fighting or killing as majority of people think but by simply telling about it)
These are 5 main things about Islam and all are peacfull. I respect you and I don't have anything against your religion especially since I'm too far to spread my religion where you live, so please. Don't be foolled by stereotypes.
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
If you do not believe in Islam, you have to subdue to all Muslims and pay tax
While this is true it is seen, to my knowledge, as a pragmatic development of the religion. Islam, being founded some 400 years or so after Christianity, experienced unpleasantness as many non Christian religions at the time did. They were also forming in a region that had a long established Christian population. In an effort to avoid conflict and speed "peaceful"conversion the tax was used as an incentive - if you converted, there would be no tax, but you could remain non Muslim, and the tax was never crippling in nature.
Also, as they were a new power on the boarders of the economic giant that was the Eastern Roman Empire (or as it is more commonly, if incorrectly known, the Byzantine Empire) they had to do whatever was required to become economically competitive. Fair? Perhaps not, but it was significantly kinder treatment being shown towards other religions then that being faced in Christian lands where conversion was mostly forced.
And it also hearkened back to the Roman Empire (main) - they were remarkably tolerant of religions, but had a "Jew" tax as compensation for the extreme Independence shown by the Jewish population, essentially having said "well, you can maintain you cultural identity, but you will have to compensate us for the damage you are doing to national cohesion"
Originally posted by Sam Z
I bumbed this thread few weeks ago because I found simillar post with quotes from Koran, majority of those quotes are the same as you posted just now. Last time I commented on every quote from there and explained everything, I can do that again but if you don't mind I wont coz it is a lot of writing and I'll again have to check all quotes in my Koran, so if you want you can check that my post.I still say that the one who thinks that Islam is violant religion is wrong.
Whenever Koran says about fighting it is always about fighting back when someone attacks you or about fighting nonbelievers and that doesn't mean literally fight, that's Jihad, it says about spreading religion and fighting beliefes that according to Koran are wrong.
And lil bithiness, i do know what I am talking about, there are few main things about islam.
1) Muslims must believe that there is no God except Allah and that Mohammad is his prophet.
2) Muslims must pray five times a day.
3) Muslim must visit Kaaba atleast once in his life unless he has no money to go or not healthy enough, in this case he may not go.
4) Ramadan
5) Spreading religion (not by fighting or killing as majority of people think but by simply telling about it)
These are 5 main things about Islam and all are peacfull. I respect you and I don't have anything against your religion especially since I'm too far to spread my religion where you live, so please. Don't be foolled by stereotypes.
I know what Muslims believe, and what you wrote down doesn't really say anything of peace.
Second, please re-read the verses I posted and then tell me where exactly is the message of peace there, because I complitely missed it.
Also, check the Qur'an for it saying that Muslims are not to take non believers for friends.
Or if you can't be bothered to look for it, I'll help you out -
003.028YUSUFALI: Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah: except by way of precaution, that ye may Guard yourselves from them. But Allah cautions you (To remember) Himself; for the final goal is to Allah.
PICKTHAL: Let not the believers take disbelievers for their friends in preference to believers. Whoso doeth that hath no connection with Allah unless (it be) that ye but guard yourselves against them, taking (as it were) security. Allah biddeth you beware (only) of Himself. Unto Allah is the journeying.
SHAKIR: Let not the believers take the unbelievers for friends rather than believers; and whoever does this, he shall have nothing of (the guardianship of) Allah, but you should guard yourselves against them, guarding carefully; and Allah makes you cautious of (retribution from) Himself; and to Allah is the eventual coming.
This preaches segregation and hateret...don't take for friends those who do not believe.
How more PLAIN can it be...
Originally posted by Alliance
Ori'vor'e for that link Storm. I was just feeling guilty that I haven't read the Qur'an yet.
Im not Storm 😛
Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
While this is true it is seen, to my knowledge, as a pragmatic development of the religion. Islam, being founded some 400 years or so after Christianity, experienced unpleasantness as many non Christian religions at the time did. They were also forming in a region that had a long established Christian population. In an effort to avoid conflict and speed "peaceful"conversion the tax was used as an incentive - if you converted, there would be no tax, but you could remain non Muslim, and the tax was never crippling in nature.Also, as they were a new power on the boarders of the economic giant that was the Eastern Roman Empire (or as it is more commonly, if incorrectly known, the Byzantine Empire) they had to do whatever was required to become economically competitive. Fair? Perhaps not, but it was significantly kinder treatment being shown towards other religions then that being faced in Christian lands where conversion was mostly forced.
And it also hearkened back to the Roman Empire (main) - they were remarkably tolerant of religions, but had a "Jew" tax as compensation for the extreme Independence shown by the Jewish population, essentially having said "well, you can maintain you cultural identity, but you will have to compensate us for the damage you are doing to national cohesion"
Not really.
Muhammad, when he created Islam had in mind a reform in the terms of politics and the way governemnt run it.
Islam, unlike Christianity or Judaism, is a political system (social too).
For a complete explanation of the form of Islam read Chris Harman's 'A People's History of the World'.
It will give you a complete historical account of Islamic revolution and birth and its about on the Internet for free (hes a socialist, so his book has been printed in secret!! wooo!)
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
I know what Muslims believe, and what you wrote down doesn't really say anything of peace.Second, please re-read the verses I posted and then tell me where exactly is the message of peace there, because I complitely missed it.
Also, check the Qur'an for it saying that Muslims are not to take non believers for friends.
Or if you can't be bothered to look for it, I'll help you out -This preaches segregation and hateret...don't take for friends those who do not believe.
How more PLAIN can it be...
Ah what the hell...
This is quote from my Koran, I translated it, that's not hard.
Sura 3. 28
"let believers not take nonbelievers closer to themselvs than believers..."
It doesn't mean - don't make friendship with nonbelievers because they are bad, it means when you take nonbelievers as friends and not believers be carefull not to take their beliefes instead of what Allah teches you, this is what "connection with Allah" and "guard" are about, this is plain and simple. Same about all other quotes, it is always about fighting back or jihad.
You tell ME to read Koran, but if you did it yourself you would've known that Islam is about loyalty, love and faith, but instead of that you take 10 quotes out of THOUSANDS and judge by them about whole religion.
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Not really.Muhammad, when he created Islam had in mind a reform in the terms of politics and the way governemnt run it.
Islam, unlike Christianity or Judaism, is a political system (social too).
Yes, I know, that was the point I was making. The growth if Islam (in certain aspects) was a pragmatic evolution that was more then just religious in nature - the tax was just as much a wise political/economic implamentation as it was an inherently religious one (or more so really.)
I wasn't really disagreeing with you, just saying that in the case of the taxes it was just as much an aspect of managing the state as it was an act of religious intolerance, more so perhaps. They saw an opportunity (a large community with a lot of money and links to a powerful Christian state) and took advantage of it (imposed a tax.)
Thanks for telling me about the book, I'll have to look up Harman.
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
I know what Muslims believe, and what you wrote down doesn't really say anything of peace.
Doesn't say anythin of peace?!🤨 Doesn't say anythin of war either?So when it's not war it's peace.Boy! wat a racist! 🤪
Also, check the Qur'an for it saying that Muslims are not to take non believers for friends.
Ever wondered y n under wat circumstances? The disbelievers (mostly jews) claimed that they had embraced Islam,but inside they hadn't.They tricked them.They were never their friends,but many Muslims thought so n cuz most of them were their own relatives,they wanted 2 hav gd relations with them,but God told them not to as they were deceivin them n wanted nothin but their destruction.They were no friends.N sayin that not befriendin them is bad, I wud say...Wat the Hell! Amazin how ppl judge Islam n make up their own meanin of a Quranic verse without even acknowledgin the reasons behind it!
This preaches segregation and hateret...don't take for friends those who do not believe.
How more PLAIN can it be...
Do I really need 2 answer this? I think I already hav.