The 'Holocaust'

I know this is quite the political thread, but I'm hoping I might get a few decent opinions on it before it gets closed. I'm sorry if anybody is offended by what I'm going to say.

The Holocaust, the period of time Hitler kept killing jews wherever he could get his hands on them, is probably, IMHO, one of the worlds greatest history manipulations, so to speak.

What I'm trying to say is that the jews have used the 'holocaust' as an excuse for obtaining countless advantages after WW2, despite it not being something out of the ordinary.

They are saying the 'holocaust' was a period of time when milions of jews died and the entire jewish nation was but wiped out..

That is not in the least true. The jews that were killed by hitler, in the camps or otherwise, are not even 10% of the victims of WW2 !

They have stated inhumane numbers of people (jews) dead in different countries all over europe in order to obtain political advantages as the 'victims', despite proven numbers not beeing anywhere close..

More recently we are supposed to study the damn thing (the 'holocaust'😉 in school, despite the fact we are not jewish.

Add to this the fact that they used the holocaust to obtain modern Israel (formerly known as Palestina). People all over the world are condemning the arabs there for their attacks on jews... how would you feel if suddenly u'r country wouldn't be your's anymore ?

They say, well the jews were a single nation and they suffered so many casualties...but look at the russians...millions dead...or even the allies..

They say, they were killed horribly in the gas chambers... honestly now, I think it's worse to die because u've just had u'r guts spilled by a 50 calibre MG....

This is my opinion, please do not bash it, or post silly stuff...
Please keep this clean and only reply if u plan to do so in a civilized manner... thank you! 🙂

Geez, Rusky, you are on exceptionally dodgy ground here.

Can you explain the logic behind this:

"More recently we are supposed to study the damn thing (the 'holocaust'😉 in school, despite the fact we are not jewish."

I am worried by the implication that you should only study something like that if you are Jewish- why do you think that? Even removing all humanity from the matter, which is not a good idea, it is a major piece of 20th century European history, much of which happened pretty close to you! Why not study it?

Neah, I'm saying they're planning on introducing the holocaust as a distinct case study...that is apart from the WW2 history....in more detail so to speak.. I disagree with that...

I'm ok with learning what it was and what happened, as part of history, but not to learn it separatly, as if it's just as important.

But you think if you were Jewish it WOULD be worth all that? I do not understand that; I believe history like that has an importance outside your own culture.

I also disapprove of your use of the word 'they', lumping all Jews into one group. That is how anti-Semitism started in the first place.

You also imply that 'they' used emotional blackmail to gain Israel. Did it occur to you that the UN simply thought it was the most constructive thing to do at the time, even though subsequent history can question that?

You also imply that 'they' used emotional blackmail to gain Israel. Did it occur to you that the UN simply thought it was the most constructive thing to do at the time, even though subsequent history can question that?

U may be right here, but I have my doubts..

I also disapprove of your use of the word 'they', lumping all of them into one group. That is how anti-Semitism started in the first place.

I'm not trying to sound anti-semite, but how would u suggest I say it ?

When I talk about americans,romanians, whatever I say they, is that antisemitism ?

No. It's only that if we're talking about black peolpe, jews or other previously dicriminated against people..

But you think if you were Jewish it WOULD be worth all that? I do not understand that; I believe history like that has an importance outside your own culture.

I already stated, we're already learning about this, so I do not have ANY problem to do so.. but it's mostly their history, so I don't see why we should have another class, apart from the history one to deal 'exclusivly' with their history, just in greater detail.

I'm trying to say, they're acting like the holocaust was and event of world importance, I believe it was WW2 on the whole that was such, not the suffering of a particular people...so many have suffered it's not just to say some have suffered more and deserve compensation.

I kind of agree with some of it , that the Holocaust should be part of the history of ww II not a separate topic

If you told me 'all Americans did this' then yes, I would have an issue with it. Your use of the term 'they' seems to indicate that Jews act as one homogonous entity. When we say 'America' did this or that we mean the American authorities, but that's not possible when referring to race.

The fact is, no 'they' did anything. Nor do I see an event like the Holocaust (though that is a term invented in the US decades after the event) as 'their' history. It's everyone's history! In the same way as, to use your example, we all learn about the Russian front as well.

It is not impossible to argue that too much attention is paid to all this. Mind you, the same could be said about World War II in general. But I do not think it is appropriate to say it is something only important for some people and not others.

The anti-semitism thing asside..

We do, but we do so in history classes as part of WW2 history, not separatley.

This suggests it is considered MORE important than anything else in the war..

Another thing that bugs me is that they(The united jewish federation or whatever they are called, it is they that I refer to as 'they'😉 have repeatedly blamed Romania for having aided the nazis in the killing of over 1 milion jews...which is so untrue...there were never that many bodies and/or records found...

it aint more important than other events of WW II

idd..

Originally posted by rusky
The anti-semitism thing asside..

We do, but we do so in history classes as part of WW2 history, not separatley.

This suggests it is considered MORE important than anything else in the war..

So why do you think this is being done? Do you think it is some shadowy Jewish agenda? Do you think it is the educational authorities pandering to a Jewish lobby?

Perhaps it is because studying the Holocaust as a seperate subject makes it easier to understand and pulls in people for whom studying the war as a whole does not interest.

There are many sections of World War II that could deserve seperate study on their own. That is not because they are more important, but because they are more complex. I would have no objection in general to any of them being taught so. So why the Holocaust in particular?

Same reason WWII is studied in such detail when there are equally important historical events that the average schoolboy knows nothing else- the Holocaust is simply a very visible and obvious piece of history, and so is always going to be in the front running for study, and for people to be interested in it.

So why do you think this is being done? Do you think it is some shadowy Jewish agenda? Do you think it is the educational authorities pandering to a Jewish lobby?

As a matter of fact I do...don't laugh...

I just find it discriminating that, of all the people that have suffered in the war, we get to study about one in particular.

Do you have any evidence of the first?

You could not possibly study them all. So why NOT the victims of the concentration camps? It is the most obvious to study and hence in a basic education system the most likely to be taught.

Alas, I cannot, it is just a hunch and ofc it'll not be taken into consideration....

I find it weird that we have to study the victims of the concentration camps in the first place (what is there to teach anyway ? the sick torments they have undergone ?), let alone the fact that we're ONLY learning about the jews...

It is a mistake for people to be taught that Jews were his only victim, for sure. But it cannot be denied that they are the central point of any such experience.

Originally posted by rusky
I know this is quite the political thread, but I'm hoping I might get a few decent opinions on it before it gets closed. I'm sorry if anybody is offended by what I'm going to say.

The Holocaust, the period of time Hitler kept killing jews wherever he could get his hands on them, is probably, IMHO, one of the worlds greatest history manipulations, so to speak.

What I'm trying to say is that the jews have used the 'holocaust' as an excuse for obtaining countless advantages after WW2, despite it not being something out of the ordinary.

They are saying the 'holocaust' was a period of time when milions of jews died and the entire jewish nation was but wiped out..

That is not in the least true. The jews that were killed by hitler, in the camps or otherwise, are not even 10% of the victims of WW2 !

They have stated inhumane numbers of people (jews) dead in different countries all over europe in order to obtain political advantages as the 'victims', despite proven numbers not beeing anywhere close..

More recently we are supposed to study the damn thing (the 'holocaust'😉 in school, despite the fact we are not jewish.

Add to this the fact that they used the holocaust to obtain modern Israel (formerly known as Palestina). People all over the world are condemning the arabs there for their attacks on jews... how would you feel if suddenly u'r country wouldn't be your's anymore ?

They say, well the jews were a single nation and they suffered so many casualties...but look at the russians...millions dead...or even the allies..

They say, they were killed horribly in the gas chambers... honestly now, I think it's worse to die because u've just had u'r guts spilled by a 50 calibre MG....

This is my opinion, please do not bash it, or post silly stuff...
Please keep this clean and only reply if u plan to do so in a civilized manner... thank you! 🙂

I agree with the first part, and the part about how the Jews use the holocaust and their past "persection" by various nations as an excuse to take unnecessary pieces of land in the Middle East. However, I'm not going to argue about how many were killed because I honestly don't know.

I, too, find it a little odd that the Jews in Israel seem to demand "special treatment" because of the suffering of the German Jews. I don't know if you've ever read "To Kill a Mockingbird," but it talks about how the girl's schoolteacher (this takes place in the late '30's) is telling them all about all the horrible things that are being done to the Jews in Germany, which are, as it so happens, many of the same things that are being done to the blacks right under their own noses.

That is what I'm trying to say...if u teach history at least do it in a thorough manner, not by letting out what u deem is 'unnecesary' (and yes by 'u' I eman the secret jewish society 😛 )

I agree DR..

it wasnt German Jews, it was Jews in general regardless nationality

Again... look, for a start, the reaon they have land in the Middle East is because the UN gave it to them, THAT is how it is justified! One way or another, it is their country now, as determined by the world community at the time.

Secondly, nothing that was happening to the Blacks in the 30s- good though that book was in pointing out double standards- in any way compares to the events of the Holocaust. And why have you put persecution in quote marks?

Originally posted by finti
it wasnt German Jews, it was Jews in general regardless nationality

Yes, but in the 30s, the relevant issue as regard the Nazis was in Germany.

Well actually that's not true, if you look at, for example, Poland, but in the context of the book it was only the Germans that were being talked about at the time.