Originally posted by King Burger
The Champion isn't stronger than Superman.I don't like bringing them up, but here goes: Look at the old
cross-over (can't remember the title), where a mind-controlled,
and angry, Hulk punched and punched at Superman, with the
latter just standing there unmoved. Or when Superman shattered
adamantium, something no Marvel earth character can possibly
do.
When and in what book did Superman shatter adamantium?
Originally posted by Never
Sue will put someone down and HARD; in addition, and she ALWAYS uses her force constructs in a plethora of ways whereas Superman NEVER speed blitzes an opponent. Big difference.
See, this is where we disagree. I am willing to admit that Superman does not commonly use his speed in battles. For you, it ends there, and you say that he will never use it, which is a fine assumption and has tons of support. On the other hand, when I think of Superman fighting "all out" I consider every ability he has to be fair game, including his speed. In my opinion, Superman's speed would be his most powerful asset if he ever used it in a battle (but then it would raise the question "why have the Flash?" who's ONLY power is his speed, yet he's only a little faster than Supes). I'm too stubborn to admit that if Superman were trying his hardest outside of a comic book storyline he wouldn't use his speed. Like when he faced Doomsday. No matter how strong Superman could be, he was going to lose that fight because that's what DC wanted. Showing Superman win fight after fight with his speed would take away from his many other attributes and he would lose depth as a superhero.
I doubt that this difference of opinion is going to be resolved, no matter what either of us or anyone else says. So how about if you had it your way, the Fantastic Four would win, and if I had it my way, Superman would (Bare in mind that this was not supposed to be a fanboy-ish statement, just a hopeful conclusion to an argument that could go on forever).
Ok Hulk can't beat Superman that is just dumb. Hulk gets stronger the more rage he gets... but you cant just keep getting more angry and angry... everyone has a limit. But Superman did beat the Hulk, even gave the Hulk first Swing right before the Amalgam Series. Superman would try and find a way out of fighting but if it is something where he has no choice (like the destruction of the DC Universe), he knocked Hulk out. Did you also forget that the Hulk is no longer a mindless beast? Also notice when it was DC vs Marvel and they sent the most powerful superheroes from both Universes to fight... No Fantastic Four.
Ok so everyone keeps saying how the Invisible Woman could put a forcefield inside of him and explode hius lungs. Well first, Superman is invulnerable, inside and out. Second he can take a single breath and last in space for weeks. He did that before. She could put him in a force field of some kind but if he hits it hard enough it will stun her for a minute and then he can go finish her. Mr. Fantastic... please. The more stretchy he gets the more vulnerable he is. Also Superman is invulnerable to fire... so Human Torch is out of the question. The Thing... seriously. He is strong but in the FF comics it actually says he has the strength of an elephant. Superman would end up just retileing his pool with the Thing.
About the FF beating Galactus... they were helped by that one observer that has his base on the moon... I cant remember his name.
Originally posted by nigel45
See, this is where we disagree. I am willing to admit that Superman does not commonly use his speed in battles. For you, it ends there, and you say that he will never use it, which is a fine assumption and has tons of support. On the other hand, when I think of Superman fighting "all out" I consider every ability he has to be fair game, including his speed. In my opinion, Superman's speed would be his most powerful asset if he ever used it in a battle (but then it would raise the question "why have the Flash?" who's ONLY power is his speed, yet he's only a little faster than Supes).
One: show us any instance where Superman has ever speed-blitzed an opponent. How about a month's time?
Two: you act as if Superman has never battled an opponent without The Flash and The JLA around.
How faulty an argument is this? "Although Superman has NEVER speed-blitzed an opponent when going "all out" (and he has KILLED several times before and has gone "all out" in several other occasions and did not kill), for SOME reason if he goes "all out" against the FF he will use his super speed."
Yeah, right.
Originally posted by Jason8200Ok Hulk can't beat Superman that is just dumb. Hulk gets stronger the more rage he gets... but you cant just keep getting more angry and angry... everyone has a limit. But Superman did beat the Hulk, even gave the Hulk first Swing right before the Amalgam Series. Superman would try and find a way out of fighting but if it is something where he has no choice (like the destruction of the DC Universe), he knocked Hulk out. Did you also forget that the Hulk is no longer a mindless beast? Also notice when it was DC vs Marvel and they sent the most powerful superheroes from both Universes to fight... No Fantastic Four.Ok so everyone keeps saying how the Invisible Woman could put a forcefield inside of him and explode hius lungs. Well first, Superman is invulnerable, inside and out. Second he can take a single breath and last in space for weeks. He did that before. She could put him in a force field of some kind but if he hits it hard enough it will stun her for a minute and then he can go finish her. Mr. Fantastic... please. The more stretchy he gets the more vulnerable he is. Also Superman is invulnerable to fire... so Human Torch is out of the question. The Thing... seriously. He is strong but in the FF comics it actually says he has the strength of an elephant. Superman would end up just retileing his pool with the Thing.
About the FF beating Galactus... they were helped by that one observer that has his base on the moon... I cant remember his name.
Why I bother addressing cats who obviously know little to nothing about comics is beyond me...but what the hell.
One, Superman is not invulnerable "inside and out." Duh. If he was invulnerable Doomsday would not have killed him; Captain Marvel would not have knocked him out; etc etc.
Two, yes, the constructs in his lungs would work. Think he'd survive if she BURST his lungs? Oh wait; that's right, Superman can live without lungs...
No, Superman never beat The Hulk in a "legit" battle because they've never HAD one.
Four, Mr. Fantastic does not get more vulnerable the more "stretchy" he gets.
Five, Superman is not invulnerable to fire. This is NOT PC Superman who flew through stars.
Get it right.
Originally posted by juggernaut74
When has Superman needed to speed blitz an opponent to beat him or them?
Uh DOOMSDAY? The SHAGGY MAN? Other assorted cosmic level threats? How about when Prometheus had defeated the JLA save Superman and told Superman that, to save the satellite in orbit, he wanted Superman to kill himself? WHY didn't Superman fly over there and knock him out before he could react?
Do you/have you read The JLA? If you did, guess you would not have had to ask that.
You failed. LoL, he's FOUGHT four opponents before and didn't use his speed.
He fought the white martians in JLA #2. He fought General Eiling's crew (an aqua type guy; a superstrong one; one with these interrupter discs; and a female that operated in 4 dimensions) and didn't use his super speed not once.
HE DOESN'T USE IT.
Next?
Ok... first I might have gotten it wrong about Mr. Fantastic being more vulnerable the more he is stretched... I will find out where I read that and post it.
But as far as everything you are tlaking about? Seriously... Like Superman is not invulnerable inside and out? Yea Doomsday stopped Superman but how many times has Dr. Doom beat the FF? Last I checked... Doomsday is more powerful than Dr. Doom.
Also... the whole thing where the Invisible Woman puts force fields in Superman's lungs, that might have worked on Wolverine but not on Superman. Someone who has flown through space... through black holes... I am pretty sure flying through a black hole is just a little worse than having Invisible Woman putting him in a bubble. Your post was just ignorant... like Superman is not invulnerable to fire? Hes been blown up by nuclear weapons before... later on he ends up residing in the Sun. But you are probably right, a campfire would probably kill him.
I know my physics; Supernovas are much hotter than normal stars. Check any physics or natural science book.
The only reason Superman isn't hurt by the sun is because he can absorb all of its radiant energy. I know that any form of radiation that can damage Superman without powering his biomatrix will have full affect on him, (e.g. kryptonite, lasers, or any other form of non-solar radiation.) Any energy borne of the sun will not affect Superman. However, I am unsure whether or not heat can damage him. Does anyone have any examples of heat damaging Superman?
Originally posted by Never
One: show us any instance where Superman has ever speed-blitzed an opponent. How about a month's time?Two: you act as if Superman has never battled an opponent without The Flash and The JLA around.
How faulty an argument is this? "Although Superman has NEVER speed-blitzed an opponent when going "all out" (and he has KILLED several times before and has gone "all out" in several other occasions and did not kill), for SOME reason if he goes "all out" against the FF he will use his super speed."
*sigh*. Did I ever say that there was evidence to support Superman speed-blitzing an opponent? Did I? I am simply of the opinion that since Superman is capable of super speed, there is no reason why he would'nt be able to use it in a battle. I realize that my opinion is going against comic book history, so you know what, fine, you win. I guess from now on I should assume that if I haven't seen a superhero do something in a comic book, they can't do it. So I'm guessing Supes can't play checkers or throw a baseball or eat spaghetti.
By the way, you're arguing against an OPINION. I stopped truly making arguments on this thread a while back. I tried to make that clear in my last post but I guess I need to spell it out some more.